There seems to be a whole lot of images of MLP(and other things but it's most prevalent) that have male and or female tags without any gender identifying characteristics.

So, to be certain before I start messing with tags and getting into arguments/reporting mistags.

Is a feral pony with no breasts/teats, vagina, or penis supposed to be tagged as ambiguous_gender, female, or male.
Has to be one of the above because tagging based on known character genders is not TWYS, and not allowed for other characters.

Hammie said:
Q: How I know if a MLP is male of female?

A: http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/My_Little_Pony_Friendship_is_Magic_Wiki

Mario583 said:
A: http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/My_Little_Pony_Friendship_is_Magic_Wiki

Using external information sources to determine character gender is not TYWS.

You just have to look at their physical characteristics. Male ponies tend to have more of a jawline, while the females don't. That, plus eyelashes, and other stuff like that. Some artists might fuck up and draw a character's face too feminine or masculine, so watch out for that.

Dogenzaka said:
You just have to look at their physical characteristics. Male ponies tend to have more of a jawline, while the females don't. That, plus eyelashes, and other stuff like that. Some artists might fuck up and draw a character's face too feminine or masculine, so watch out for that.

But even that isn't universal, so shouldn't they just be tagged as ambiguous_gender to be consistent with standard practice that we do with all characters?

Hammie said:
But even that isn't universal, so shouldn't they just be tagged as ambiguous_gender to be consistent with standard practice that we do with all characters?

Shouldn't 90% of all pokemon and digimon pictures be tagged as ambiguous gender then? Including renamon? as digimon in-verse have no actual gender. Or the sonic characters for that matter as they don't really display any characteristics when clothed.

Princess_Celestia said:
Shouldn't 90% of all pokemon and digimon pictures be tagged as ambiguous gender then? Including renamon? as digimon in-verse have no actual gender. Or the sonic characters for that matter as they don't really display any characteristics when clothed.

If there's no characteristics identifying gender?
Yeah, they should be.

As for clothed characters, if they're noticeably male or female despite clothing, then yeah should be tagged as such.
If it's feral, to not be ambiguous it needs some sort of gender specific characteristic, penis/vagina obviously, but also things like udders on a cow, or antlers on a deer.

Hammie said:
If there's no characteristics identifying gender?
Yeah, they should be.

As for clothed characters, if they're noticeably male or female despite clothing, then yeah should be tagged as such.
If it's feral, to not be ambiguous it needs some sort of gender specific characteristic, penis/vagina obviously, but also things like udders on a cow, or antlers on a deer.

I support you fully hammie, I really do.

Just a heads up though: I tried to fight this fight about a year ago. This was a huge one with Futa MLP's showing up. With ponies that had male genitals and no female characteristics to be tagged male. This was fought over and over.

I am going to suggest three things with e621.

Tag what you see, but plan to get in trouble if you fight for something to actually be TWYS.

Do not fight herm/dickgril/cuntboy tags, it will only end badly.

Do not fight MLP tags, there are too many people who will fight to the death over MLP tags.

I have basically given up tagging due to these hard lessons...

Princess_Celestia said:
Shouldn't 90% of all pokemon and digimon pictures be tagged as ambiguous gender then? Including renamon? as digimon in-verse have no actual gender. Or the sonic characters for that matter as they don't really display any characteristics when clothed.

And yes, they should all be ambiguous_gender. If no gender is supported by the image, it should be ambiguous.

_Waffles_ said:

I am going to suggest three things with e621.

Tag what you see, but plan to get in trouble if you fight for something to actually be TWYS.

Do not fight herm/dickgril/cuntboy tags, it will only end badly.

Do not fight MLP tags, there are too many people who will fight to the death over MLP tags.

This, basically.

_Waffles_ said:
And yes, they should all be ambiguous_gender. If no gender is supported by the image, it should be ambiguous.

I can understand that since male and female Pokemon look exactly the same expect for the Pokemon who only evolve or a type depending on there gender.
Always male Gallade Nidoking. Always female Nidoqueen Latias.

Hammie I know no matter what I tell you, your going to say it's not true or believe that it not that simple. So here goes.
But MLP character have characteristics that point them to be either male or female.
post #327336
Still there are picture that you can fight over like dickgirl tags on mlp characters. But if they still have eyelashes and a small muzzle there dickgirls otherwise male. That's what I think anyway.

Falord said:
I can understand that since male and female Pokemon look exactly the same expect for the Pokemon who only evolve or a type depending on there gender.
Always male Gallade Nidoking. Always female Nidoqueen Latias.

Hammie I know no matter what I tell you, your going to say it's not true or believe that it not that simple. So here goes.
But MLP character have characteristics that point them to be either male or female.
post #327336
Still there are picture that you can fight over like dickgirl tags on mlp characters. But if they still have eyelashes and a small muzzle there dickgirls otherwise male. That's what I think anyway.

So, Princess Celestia and Luna are dudes? Because they have square thicker jawlines.

Head shape =/= gender specific features.

I totally support you on this Hammie. Most MLP character do adhere to the headshape rule of the show/fandom, but there are many that do not. If there's no outstanding features to prove gender, it should be tagged Ambiguous.

Hammie said:
So, Princess Celestia and Luna are dudes? Because they have square thicker jawlines.

Head shape =/= gender specific features.

Yes there dudes and have big balls hanging between there legs.... But serious we have never seen an alicorn male and his body model in the show. We can assume that that's how a full sized alicorn princess female looks.
Un-cannonly this is someones idea of how they would look like as dudes
post #284912
That should hopefully answers your question.

Pyke said:
I totally support you on this Hammie. Most MLP character do adhere to the headshape rule of the show/fandom, but there are many that do not. If there's no outstanding features to prove gender, it should be tagged Ambiguous.

That already happens. And yes it does. But Many character that spawn from cartoons follow this tag bases. Or sonic would be tagged ambiguous.

Sonic is not feral, you can refer to general humanoid body shape to determine male/female.
A lack of breasts in a humanoid is generally sufficient to call it male.
Either way, if lacking defining characteristics it should be tagged as ambiguous_gender.

Hammie said:
Sonic is not feral, you can refer to general humanoid body shape to determine male/female.
A lack of breasts in a humanoid is generally sufficient to call it male.
Either way, if lacking defining characteristics it should be tagged as ambiguous_gender.

I give up..... go for it.

Hammie said:
Sonic is not feral, you can refer to general humanoid body shape to determine male/female.
A lack of breasts in a humanoid is generally sufficient to call it male.
Either way, if lacking defining characteristics it should be tagged as ambiguous_gender.

Do it hammie, Just expect to get a red-mark against you or a ban.

You fight for the rules of TWYS, you get struck down. It was me trying to make sure that TWYS was being done with many humanized "MLP" images and it brought forward a change in TWYS.

Hell, I think Esme Belle got banned for 2 weeks for holding TWYS, and I have a permanent mark against me for pushing a 'male' tag on a fluttershy that had a penis (they kept tagging it herm with no distinguishable female anatomy).

I really hope your try changes something, I really do....

Write char a PM and ask him if he could look at this thread and chip in with a decision, he is a busy man so this may take a day or two but you will get a definite answer.

But I'm somewhat sure you are to use bodyshape, headshape, eyelashes and so on in consideration if genitals aren't visible.
There has been a thread on this already once but I can't find it.

_Waffles_ said:
You fight for the rules of TWYS, you get struck down. It was me trying to make sure that TWYS was being done with many humanized "MLP" images and it brought forward a change in TWYS.

Believe it or not, you could have also done all this with a couple PM's and a proper forumthread.
Heck, I reported you when you seemed to lose your shit and go on a tagging crusade.

There are definitely more ways to rome than in chains on a slave cart.

Well mostly I'm hoping that some attention gets paid by the moderation staff.
I don't want to start any arguments if I'm not sure I'm on the right side of it.

It just seems silly to me that on one hand we tag MLP as male/female based on the character, then turn around and tell people they can't do the same for their personal characters.

Not that I'm on the "tag what the artist/owner says" side of that argument, I'm all for TWYS, just applied evenly across the board.

Sometimes you have to poke the mods with sticks or red glowing ironrods because all think "hopefully someone else answers this thread".

Besides that, I would hold it to the rules, if the artist makes it look female, tag it female, if the artist makes it look male, tag it male, if the artist makes it look female but says it is male scowl at him and tag it female.
If the artist has no idea what he is doing tag it ambiguous_gender.

Has there actually been any example images posted in this thread yet? The first post makes the claim that gender tags are getting applied without having the necessary evidence in the pic, but I don't think I've seen anyone actually link to any examples yet. How prevalent is the problem? Are there particular administrators that seem to not be following site policy (as indicated by Waffles)?

I'm just saying there's a lot of talking going on in this thread, but I'm not really sure what exactly we're talking about yet.

post #325064 and post #326585 do not have eyelashes, femanine figures or the like which would qualify them to be tagged as female, yet are based on knowledge of the show. Hopefully this is what the others are trying to say.

A lack of breasts in a humanoid is generally sufficient to call it male.

No it isn't.

Also I don't like suggestion that this is MLP only problem. This is feral only problem, and any solution should be applied also to pictures like post #230867

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
No it isn't.

Also I don't like suggestion that this is MLP only problem. This is feral only problem, and any solution should be applied also to pictures like post #230867

It's definitely not an MLP-only problem, but the sheer amount of feral Mlp pics makes it the easiest and most identifiable example.

Examples:
Tagged as female without specific female characteristics
post #327303
post #327307
post #327340
post #326654
post #326733
post #326617 (even has a mustache)
post #326470
post #326465
post #326374
post #326298
post #325876
post #325808
post #325420
post #325064
post #324636

I can get more if needed, that was from 2 pages of posts.

Edit: I would like to note, I am talking about all feral characters, really all characters.
I did say so in the original posts.

Rocket_Corgi said:
It's definitely not an MLP-only problem, but the sheer amount of feral Mlp pics makes it the easiest and most identifiable example.

Sorry, but after seing people like redanddead, and Waffles whining writing

I am going to suggest three things with e621.

Tag what you see, but plan to get in trouble if you fight for something to actually be TWYS.

Do not fight herm/dickgril/cuntboy tags, it will only end badly.

Do not fight MLP tags, there are too many people who will fight to the death over MLP tags.

I have basically given up tagging due to these hard lessons...

I'm losing my faith in people.

With the rule TWYS, administrators sought a means to stop bickering about small characters usually without great importances from the imagination of any furry artist. (and this applied especially herm characters)

But they have not thought the characters from the 7th art.
For example, there is nothing to say that Renamon is a female after its original design, yet we know that it is a female because it is presented as such in the animated series.

Same for the fox Rita and the MLP and all characters of the 7th art showing no gendered characteristics.

I believe that is left in peace all characters of the 7th art and that gender was assigned to them in the movies is respected.

Tauxiera said:
With the rule TWYS, administrators sought a means to stop bickering about small characters usually without great importances from the imagination of any furry artist. (and this applied especially herm characters)

But they have not thought the characters from the 7th art.
For example, there is nothing to say that Renamon is a female after its original design, yet we know that it is a female because it is presented as such in the animated series.

Same for the fox Rita and the MLP and all characters of the 7th art showing no gendered characteristics.

I believe that is left in peace all characters of the 7th art and that gender was assigned to them in the movies is respected.

I thought Digimon were genderless?

Pyke said:
I thought Digimon were genderless?

Chiaki J. Konaka originally conceived Renamon as an androgynous character, but her personality development over the course of the series caused the character to be treated as female. This feature also applies to two other characters in the series but I can not remember most of what.

Tauxiera said:
Chiaki J. Konaka originally conceived Renamon as an androgynous character, but her personality development over the course of the series caused the character to be treated as female. This feature also applies to two other characters in the series but I can not remember most of what.

Even if the character is said to be female in the show, that is using outside information. If the character is drawn with no features to identify as a female OR male, then it should get the androgynous tag.

Hammie said:
Examples:
Tagged as female without specific female characteristics
post #327303
post #327307
post #327340
post #326654
post #326733
post #326617 (even has a mustache)
post #326470
post #326465
post #326374
post #326298
post #325876
post #325808
post #325420
post #325064
post #324636

I can get more if needed, that was from 2 pages of posts.

Edit: I would like to note, I am talking about all feral characters, really all characters.
I did say so in the original posts.

Almost all of these characters have eyelashes indicative of females, and should be tagged as such if there are no conflicting traits indicative of males instead.

post #325064 is probably one that should be ambiguous. post #326617, post #326465, and post #325808 I'd say also should be ambiguous.

Of course, the issue that we're always going to have is that people will come back and argue that you're retarded if you don't realize that "it's clearly Pinkie Pie and Pinkie Pie is a girl so this post should be tagged female". It's just simply two sides of e621's userbase wanting the tags to represent different things (what we see vs what we know). There's an immediate association of "female" when people think of Pinkie Pie, so any time they see Pinkie Pie, they're going to want the "female" tag to apply if there's no indication that she's something other than her "default" gender.

So yes, the images that I mentioned above should be ambiguous_gender, but good luck trying to keep it that way (we really need the ability to lock or forbid specific tags on posts at some point).

Ok, so feminine eyelashes are sufficient for a female tag if nothing otherwise indicates male.
But otherwise, I was right, just in an area of potential argument.

Thanks for weighing in, that's about what I figured.
Good to have it verified though.

Char said:
Almost all of these characters have eyelashes indicative of females, and should be tagged as such if there are no conflicting traits indicative of males instead.

post #325064 is probably one that should be ambiguous. post #326617, post #326465, and post #325808 I'd say also should be ambiguous.

Of course, the issue that we're always going to have is that people will come back and argue that you're retarded if you don't realize that "it's clearly Pinkie Pie and Pinkie Pie is a girl so this post should be tagged female". It's just simply two sides of e621's userbase wanting the tags to represent different things (what we see vs what we know). There's an immediate association of "female" when people think of Pinkie Pie, so any time they see Pinkie Pie, they're going to want the "female" tag to apply if there's no indication that she's something other than her "default" gender.

So yes, the images that I mentioned above should be ambiguous_gender, but good luck trying to keep it that way (we really need the ability to lock or forbid specific tags on posts at some point).

Body type can also play a part in determine gender not just there eyelashes. But still Hammie going to find something else to complain about in bit. I am sure of it lol.

Falord said:
Body type can also play a part in determine gender not just there eyelashes. But still Hammie going to find something else to complain about in bit. I am sure of it lol.

If you're talking about MLP images, body type would count as outside information. If there's a picture of Pony without eyes lashes, or any feminine characteristics, it doesn't matter if "she" has the Feminine or Masculine body type associated with the show. It should get tagged Ambiguous.

I don't try to complain, I just see inconsistencies and it bugs me so I try to do something about it.

Hammie said:
I don't try to complain, I just see inconsistencies and it bugs me so I try to do something about it.

Aka: complainin

Renard_Queenston said:
Aka: complainin

Rule 601: Complaining on the Internet will get you nowhere fast.

Renard_Queenston said:
Aka: complainin

Oh look, that boy over there has neither arms nor legs, but is hungry and begs for something to eat, clearly he is selfish.

How dare he.

Pyke said:
If you're talking about MLP images, body type would count as outside information. If there's a picture of Pony without eyes lashes, or any feminine characteristics, it doesn't matter if "she" has the Feminine or Masculine body type associated with the show. It should get tagged Ambiguous.

......Dude every thing has a body type...... you have a body type, I have a body type, everything those and some body types match genders.... you know what you are just as simple minded as Hammie sorry to say..... Make a big mess out of something so small.... It is not complicated to see that something has a shape to distinguish a gender and if that fails ambiguous it is.

Outside source thing..... Everything has a outside source even the people that are tag the picture can be consider an outside source, If you knew nothing about He-man would you tag a character wearing nothing but his underwear, welding a sword with the dailog "By the Power of Grayskull" man sword weapon. But sadly it isn't tagged so and you use an outside source to tag the character correctly. You know what go find a 'real' feral pony and tell me if it looks like a MLP character. Sure that would be Hammie's next campaign to remove that tag to.....

Then if you still feel so strongly about it Pyke go do something about and start removing tags from every character you think is miss tag.

Renard_Queenston said:
Aka: complainin

Mario583 said:
Rule 601: Complaining on the Internet will get you nowhere fast.

Yea I think I am complaining to lol. But had to get it out my mind.

I'm starting to feel a bit insulted.

Also, as for He-man, character names are a specified exception to the TWYS rule.

Hammie said:
Ok, so feminine eyelashes are sufficient for a female tag if nothing otherwise indicates male.
But otherwise, I was right, just in an area of potential argument.

Thanks for weighing in, that's about what I figured.
Good to have it verified though.

Right. I mean artists GENERALLY are pretty good at indicating the gender of characters they're drawing. Determining gender should rarely be something that requires any kind of in-depth analysis; often your first impression is exactly how it should be tagged (e.g. if you immediately thought "female" when you saw the pic, it's very likely that that's what it should be tagged with (again, assuming that you're not assuming "default" genders)).

Falord said:
Body type can also play a part in determine gender not just there eyelashes. But still Hammie going to find something else to complain about in bit. I am sure of it lol.

Yes, body type obviously plays a role too. As stated above, there are usually a multitude of visual cues that artists will put into their artwork that tells you what the gender is of the character you're looking at. For simpler characters like MLP characters, the visual cues might be more subtle (eyelashes, softer jaws), but are still usually easily distinguishable from male characters.

I've had people come back before though and say "So eyelashes mean that it's probably female? You know males have eyelashes too, right?". Right, but then this completely depends on the style of the artwork. It may be that eyelashes are NOT indicative of a female in an artist's particular style. Unfortunately, this is not something that e621.net can fully explain and lay out all nice and neat for everyone, which is why we often have to simply rely on what our "gut" tell us, for lack of a better term. If the artist wants you to think a character is a certain gender, they'll often do what's needed to make sure that that's the impression you're left with.

Hammie said:
I'm starting to feel a bit insulted.

Also, as for He-man, character names are a specified exception to the TWYS rule.

Sorry if you feel a bit insulted. But think about it, many people already said why to leave it, yet it hasn't change your answer.

Oh and the He-man thing was an example of if you knew nothing about him, not even what cartoon or movie he's from. In that instance the only source you would have would be yourself and you would be right in your tagging. But he has a source. Even his sword and castle has a name to identify it A specific sword and castle mind you. The TWYS says no outside sources but it does say Tag What You See and the only references you can use is what you know and sadly that can be consider an outside reference because the name of the sword is in a show that you did not create and it is unique enough to be identified in the image.

Umm, I didn't change my answer because I was right.

Which was kind of born out by Char's agreeing with me.

Tauxiera said:
Chiaki J. Konaka originally conceived Renamon as an androgynous character, but her personality development over the course of the series caused the character to be treated as female. This feature also applies to two other characters in the series but I can not remember most of what.

"It" is treated as male in germany, japan, and russia I believe.

Hammie said:
Umm, I didn't change my answer because I was right.

Which was kind of born out by Char's agreeing with me.

Char also distinctly Dis-Agreed with you on several major key points.

Princess_Celestia said:
"It" is treated as male in germany, japan, and russia I believe.

yes but why this remark?

Tauxiera said:
yes but why this remark?

What remark?

Princess_Celestia said:
What remark?

Woops, the first

Tauxiera said:
Woops, the first

Was in reply to a statement that one made about "Renamon" being a female. The only clearly defined female state in renamons evolution would be Sakuramon, and that's due to secondary sexual characteristics. But this in itself becomes a problem, thanks to "Digimon data-squad" where the Renamon is very clearly male, and despite evolving into extremely female forms {Lilithmon, Sakuramon, and LadyDevimon} is still referred to a male.

And again, as stated before. Digimon do not "Have" gender, they are aesexual beings with no reproductive organs {How do they lay eggs I wonder?}, and no set sexual characteristics in the same way humans do. As alan rickman would say in Dogma, "As anatomically correct as a Kendoll.}

Therefor, any and all digimon save specific ones where they're given sexual anatomy should be ambiguous gender, even more clear ones like Sakuramon, angewoman, LadyDevimon, or Lilithmon.

Princess_Celestia said:
Was in reply to a statement that one made about "Renamon" being a female. The only clearly defined female state in renamons evolution would be Sakuramon, and that's due to secondary sexual characteristics. But this in itself becomes a problem, thanks to "Digimon data-squad" where the Renamon is very clearly male, and despite evolving into extremely female forms {Lilithmon, Sakuramon, and LadyDevimon} is still referred to a male.

And again, as stated before. Digimon do not "Have" gender, they are aesexual beings with no reproductive organs {How do they lay eggs I wonder?}, and no set sexual characteristics in the same way humans do.

Therefor, any and all digimon save specific ones where they're given sexual anatomy should be ambiguous gender, even more clear ones like Sakuramon, angewoman, LadyDevimon, or Lilithmon.

You sure do know about renamon, you must love it~

Aurali said:
You sure do know about renamon, you must love it~

No, Renamon just makes a good example because it and gatomon are two of the most well defined "characters" In terms of gender as far as anyones concerned, renamon in particular becoming a furry sex idol.

Princess_Celestia said:
No, Renamon just makes a good example because it and gatomon are two of the most well defined "characters" In terms of gender as far as anyones concerned, renamon in particular becoming a furry sex idol.

honestly I didn't even know what the hell a renamon was until much recently.. my thoughts have always been, "Digimon hasn't been any good since the stupid ages"

Aurali said:
Digimon hasn't been any good since the stupid ages

Digimon was actually good at some point?

Dogenzaka said:
Digimon was actually good at some point?

HA

Hammie said:
I don't try to complain, I just see inconsistencies and it bugs me so I try to do something about it.

This is exactly why this stuff needs to be brought up. Hypocrisy and double standards hurt anything and piss everyone off.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
Sorry, but after seing people like redanddead, and Waffles whining writing
I'm losing my faith in people.

WHOA, hold on there Gilda. Wasnt it you that was whining writing about some MLP tags just a couple weeks ago?

post #312305

"I see another stupid OC character. Not even necessarily mlp character. For me it looks more like lupine_assassin than any pony character.

And it got Rainbow Dash tag. Seriously."

So how is it that you bring up complaints, but others just whine?

_Waffles_ said:
This is exactly why this stuff needs to be brought up. Hypocrisy and double standards hurt anything and piss everyone off.

WHOA, hold on there Gilda. Wasnt it you that was whining writing about some MLP tags just a couple weeks ago?

post #312305

"I see another stupid OC character. Not even necessarily mlp character. For me it looks more like lupine_assassin than any pony character.

And it got Rainbow Dash tag. Seriously."

So how is it that you bring up complaints, but others just whine?

Looks like rainbow dash to me and...really? Lupine assassin? REALLY? Why in GODS Name would you bring "That" up, muchless equate a jet black generic wolf that always wears a bandana and headphones with a blue/grey pony with rainbow hair, pink eyes {All traits of rainbow dash} and a beanie. That's like saying that catfish is clearly made of cats.

_Waffles_ said:
So how is it that you bring up complaints, but others just whine?

You mean that getting pissed off (a little too much) about one picture is as bad as saying that no good deed goes unpunished here, and claiming that's the reason you stopped tagging at all? Maybe my whine-o-meter is malfunctioning, but I there's slight difference between those two things.

And no, I'm talking not about all others, but about some particular people. Including you. Just to be clear - I'm not talking about Hammie.

Princess_Celestia said:
Looks like rainbow dash to me and...really? Lupine assassin? REALLY? Why in GODS Name would you bring "That" up, muchless equate a jet black generic wolf that always wears a bandana and headphones with a blue/grey pony with rainbow hair, pink eyes {All traits of rainbow dash} and a beanie. That's like saying that catfish is clearly made of cats.

I see some lagomorph/equine hybrid (IMO those ears are too long for pony) with dark fur, no wings, stupid hat, stupid piercing, and weird looking eyes. It looks more like random ponyfied hobo to me than RD, and there was at least one more user who thought that. Anyway, now rules changed so it's not important but if there would be no source I would disagree with tagging it as RD.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
You mean that getting pissed off (a little too much) about one picture is as bad as saying that no good deed goes unpunished here, and claiming that's the reason you stopped tagging at all? Maybe my whine-o-meter is malfunctioning, but I there's slight difference between those two things.

And no, I'm talking not about all others, but about some particular people. Including you. Just to be clear - I'm not talking about Hammie.

I see some lagomorph/equine hybrid (IMO those ears are too long for pony) with dark fur, no wings, stupid hat, stupid piercing, and weird looking eyes. It looks more like random hobo to me than RD, and there was at least one more user who thought that. Anyway, now rules changed so it's not important but if there would be no source I would disagree with tagging it as RD.

Does not matter now, it is RD due to the author saying it is.

As far as the "no good deed goes unpunished" is not what I was trying to convey. I was trying to convey that fighting common tagged things (MLP genders, FUTA genders, Humanized characters, ETC) will usually never end well. It will usually only pissing people off and creating wars.

It was a warning to Hammie, as well as others, that when they fight this fight, they will get marked.

WE ALL SHOULD STILL FIGHT! Tagging inconsistencies are a problem that needs to be addressed and ultimately fixed.

I will still tag obvious stuff, but still get in arguments when tagging different things like post #318884. After this, I will tag obvious stuff, but no longer have any desire in helping and fighting for TWYS. This is not whining, just tiredness of getting myself into tag wars.

@_Waffles_

Excuse me, I'm not a psychic and I can't guess your intentions in other ways than reading what you've written. And what you've written sounded like I said to me.
I'm a simple guy, and if someone writes "I have basically given up tagging due to these hard lessons..." I think that he has given up tagging. I don't search for deeper meaning there.

Also I don't see generally* people getting in trouble for respecting the rules. Unless you really want to personally show everyone how things should be done instead of reporting things to admins instead.

*Yeah, there are exceptions. I don't understand why Esme Belles was banned for a whole year. And while she wasn't without any blame, and could handle that better than writing angry journal note on IB I still think that this is stupid.

I think we're done here.