titanmelon:index

Remember that I'm not an official staff member, so don't take anything I suggest/say/opine/posit/etc. as 'official policy' unless otherwise confirmed by an Admin.

post #206021

[UNDER CONSTRUCTION: LIKELY TO BE VERY MESSY IN THE NON-LEWD WAY]

Version: 0.327

  • If I have linked to a forum post you deleted/quoted a post you hid, feel free to remove it from here as well without informing me
  • If something on these pages references you by an old username, feel free to update it without informing me
  • If you'd like to discuss anything related to the content on this page, feel free to DMail me :)

If, for some unfathomable reason, you'd like to know what I'm planning/working on, you found the right place to find out

I may put some of my more complex posts here for easier reference to others

These pages may also serve as a format draft for future wiki standards. See forum #159148 if you'd like to discuss this

(for those concerned, this page was created with permission)

Navigation

Todo - #todo

See: titanmelon:todo

Forum - #forum

See titanmelon:forum

Wiki - #wiki

See titanmelon:wiki

Tags - #tags

See titanmelon:tags

Tags: Metatags

Unofficial info about metagging as a a noun and verb
See titanmelon:metatagging

Tag System

Info about the tag system itself
See titanmelon:tagsys

Lists - #lists

Really long lists and combinations of tags
See titanmelon:lists

  • T1. Combined Gender tagging system: Conjunctive Method [V. 0.70]
  • T2. Physcial gender pairing combinations (+permutations) [V. 0.49]
Ideas - #ideas

See titanmelon:ideas

  • Mine
  • Others'
Bug reports - #bugs
  • Mine
  • Others'
General Observations - #generalobservations

  • Dismissal of new tag suggestions without a suitable alternative suggested
  • Conjunctive tagging: Various considerations
  • Implicative tagging
Other Stuff - #otherstuff
  • parasprite's explanation of wiki anchor tags
  • Related to conjunctive tagging, dealing with non-thoroughly-tagged uploads:
  • Ada's link to altersex [Weasyl]

Todo

See titanmelon:todo

  • Todo p0
  • Todo p1
  • Todo p2
  • Todo p3

Forum

See titanmelon:forum

  • index of forum discussions
  • forum links
    • Mine
      • Conjunctive tagging
      • Advanced whitelist/blacklist observations: set union possibilities
    • Others'
  • Archived forum tagging projects
  • Misc. quotes

Wiki

See titanmelon:wiki

# Name Link
1 Current Wikis #currentwikis
2 Todo #todo
3 Wiki changelog #wikichangelog
4 Wiki standards/policy stuff #wikistand
5 WIP wikis #wipwikis
6 Planned wikis #plannedwikis
7 Ideas #wikideas

Tags

See titanmelon:tags

No. Section Link
1 Tagging projects
2 Proposed tags
3a Tag Encapsulation
3b Proposed aliases/implications
3c Weird/contradictory aliases
4 Open Tagging Questions
4a Mine
4b Others'

Lists

See titanmelon:lists

Ideas

Suggestions/Feature Requests from everyone
See titanmelon:ideas

Bugs

Mine

9 note formatting seems to be broken
- for html/dtext in most/all cases

8 comments etc don't preview message if non-latin text is detected
(confirmed for kana, CJK)
- unicode blocks?

7 old] edit mode pointer doesn't jump to end of line/text after editing a previous post
- ie, it remembers the position of the last section/div/window and reuses that as the anchor point for the next post edit

6 [?][Sets] some js weirdness when field is focused, then tabbed
- shortname reverts to set title

  • 5 [known?] escaped (`) js bind still functions in \[code\] blocks * 5b escaped "\\[code\]" block still parsed as dtext ** https://e621.net/forum/show/213086 * 4 [known] Inline dtext does weird things: ** [code] some code text here [/code] * 3 [[titanmelon:lists#T1_S2|Multiple types of " nested links":https://e621.org behave oddly]] ** Multiple types of " nested links":https://e621.org behave oddly ** same for inline formatting dtext: 'penis'
      • probably not a bug?
  • 1 bullet points (*) and linebreaks + whitespace does


weird things

General observations

Issue regarding people dismissing new tag suggestions without suggesting alternatives

  • Have some kind of site policy/guidelines which says that people who reject a newly-proposed tag for [foo] should provide an alternative, equally-effective way to find the content the new tag is meant to be used for

Conjunctive tag groupings

Suggestions:

  • Maybe find a way to have the system done in such a way that it's self-maintaining? [???]

-> post by niminy (feb. 2016): forum #182780

[..]

Personally I hate nested implications because there is no quick indication what implicates what, and having things like female_alligator & female_reptile on the same image, with both implications to alligator, reptile, female, would offer a lot of room for errors.

We'd very much rather have a way to add tag groups, for example based on characters, where you add tags to a specific character in the image, then go through all characters and have the server "add" the proper tags to the full tag-list. Once the database and site actually are able to handle a system like that we wouldn't require any additional upkeep with implications and aliases at all. (Ignoring the initial start where we'd have to actually make those character tags on a million old posts.)

---

Discourse:

- Conjunctive tags seem to be too complex atm, for a few main reasons:

  • complexity of tags increase exponentially as an individual set increases
    • e.g. [8! gender tags] * [any set with >1 element] = 40 230+ commutative possibilities
    • 8! * [5! body types] = 4 838 400 commutative possibilities
    • 8! * [10+ species tags] = 146 313 216 000+ possibilities
  • the more basic tags are at risk of being undertagged/neglected without proper implications in place.

--

  • (what about exceptions?
  • tuple tag grouping?)

- figure out a way to use conjunctive tags without the risk of affecting single tags
- pros/cons: forum #187913

-----

-> Relevant post by niminy (feb. 2016): forum #206021

NotMeNotYou said:

Let's go at this from the other angle, we do have something planned in the far future to have character specific tags, but not soon and not your system, for a very simply reason: the sheer amount of tags people have to memorize.

We have 7 gender tags and ambiguous_gender, further we have 5268 species tags at the moment, but most of that is probably redundant because overlap, lorespecific names and what have you.
However, let's say 50% of those tags are useful, we now need to make designations for those 2600 tags, for all 8 possible genders (male, female, herm, maleherm, dickgirl, cuntboy, neuter, ambiguous), we are now looking at 20,800 new tags with 2 implications each, so 41,600 implications.

Even if we assume you have 100% determination to get this done, and you make no mistakes with suggesting them, we still face issues of the tag names themselves. Do we go with "normal" names like cow? Or uniform with bovine_female to accept things like bovine_dickgirl?

Personally I would love to have a filter like that where you can make sure that only a specific gender of a specific species shows up, or specific character of a specific gender, but your system is simply nonviable with the sheer amount of work required for the initial setup as well as prolonged upkeep.

[..]
Personally I hate nested implications because there is no quick indication what implicates what, and having things like female_alligator & female_reptile on the same image, with both implications to alligator, reptile, female, would offer a lot of room for errors.

Seems to be an issue more about the implication/alias UI, rather than the actual idea of conjunctive tagging

-

-> relevant post by Genjar: forum #182796 (feb. 2016)

Genjar said:

abadbird said:
The project of linking tags on pre-existing posts would be tremendous and likely never completed, of course.

It definitely wouldn't. Most posts are missing even the basic tags. I've been working on adding the penis tag to relevant posts; on estimate, that's missing from at least third of the posts that should have it. Here's an example: post #56669, which was rated questionable for six years.

I've got about 2% done in a month. And that's just one basic project out of hundreds: for instance, while I've been doing that, the number of posts that are missing all species tags has grown by about 5000. The amount of posts that are lacking the form tags (anthro, feral, humanoid, etc) is at 120000 and growing rapidly. At least half of all posts are missing the background tags. Gender and orientation are missing from vast number of posts. And so on.

Nobody's got time to even keep up with the already existing tags. Starting to tag things per character will only take time away from tagging the basics, and therefore it will make the overall tagging worse.

Implicative Tagging

https: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madhyamaka#The_emptiness_of_emptiness

[..] This absence is not findable because it is not an entity, just as a room without an elephant in it does not contain an elephantless substance. Even conventionally, elephantlessness does not exist.[..]

Possible relation with implicative tagging?

Misc.

https://e621.net/forum/show/200287

- sources should be at the top of posts, near artist name
-- artist name should be more prominent

-

Other Stuff

  • parasprite's explanation of anchor tags:

[..]

I actually added this a couple months ago. :3

I added one for you: tag group:species#viverrid

Here's how you use anchors:

- Make an anchor (you put this where you want the page to jump to, with whatever name you want to use)
#viverrid - Link to an anchor from the same page
tag group:species#viverrid - Link to the anchor from a different page

Just note that anchors:

  • Are more/less* case-sensitive**
  • Need to start with a letter*
  • Are only enabled on the wiki (anyone) and forums (priv+)
  • Don't play well with section tags (if the anchor is placed inside the section, it won't work when the section is collapsed). You can get around this by sticking it right before the section, or by using \[section,expanded]

*Some browsers aren't case-sensitive, but most are
**This is actually a browser restriction, it isn't related to our software

-----------

  • Related to conjunctive tagging, dealing with non-thoroughly-tagged uploads:

forum #185951 [Clawdragons]:

I'm going to throw this in. If you see someone is missing a tag frequently (in this case young or cub), you can send them a polite PM informing them of that, and then they are likely to start improving their tagging in that regard, thus exposing you to fewer of those posts you don't want to see.

Obviously, this doesn't work for people who are uploading only a couple of things, or people who have only missed the tag a couple of times, or who upload a diverse set of work and rarely upload art relevant of the young or cub variety, but there are often people who upload a lot of similar themed content.

I've done this myself with a couple of uploaders, and it has always worked very well. If you see an uploader like that, try something like this:

Hello!

You've been uploading a lot of artwork recently, and it has been getting through my blacklist because it is missing the (young/cub) tag. I would really appreciate it if you could try to remember that tag in the future.

Thanks for your time!

-----------------------------------------------------------

Done

  • add Tags section
  • move forum post stuff to a new wiki when it gets too big