Topic: Invalidate humanoid_hands

The bulk update request #12575 is pending approval.

create alias humanoid_hands (123895) -> hands (1) # has blocking transitive relationships, cannot be applied through bur

Reason: topic #60124 brought up the argument that humanoid_hands should be considered the default for anthro characters, and we should therefore tag only the exceptions (handpaw, etc.) and not the default.

(humanoid_feet had more mixed opinions, so I'm not adding it here.)

What? By this logic we would need to nuke every single humanoid anatomy related tag.

ruppari said:
What? By this logic we would need to nuke every single humanoid anatomy related tag.

Only for ones that aren't near-ubiquitous. humanoid_genitalia, for instance, is not the default on anthros.

What confuses me is why so many people who downvoted the humanoid_anatomy BUR are downvoting this too. I don't see a third option here, guys.

beholding said:
Only for ones that aren't near-ubiquitous. humanoid_genitalia, for instance, is not the default on anthros.

What confuses me is why so many people who downvoted the humanoid_anatomy BUR are downvoting this too. I don't see a third option here, guys.

The third option is keeping what we have and not adding an ambiguous umbrella tag we don't need

beholding said:
Only for ones that aren't near-ubiquitous. humanoid_genitalia, for instance, is not the default on anthros.

What confuses me is why so many people who downvoted the humanoid_anatomy BUR are downvoting this too. I don't see a third option here, guys.

One person's comment on how humanoid_hands may seem ubiquitous for anthros does equate to a community consensus for the invalidation of the tag.
AFIAK, the tag can also be applied to other forms that are not human/humanoid, such as feral (e.g., post #5344422). Wouldn't that be grounds to keep the tag intact?

In addition, I downvoted on your other suggestion for humanoid_anatomy because it was plainly ambiguous and useless.
That does not mean I think that the rest of the humanoid_* tags are similarly useless.

thegreatwolfgang said:
AFIAK, the tag can also be applied to other forms that are not human/humanoid, such as feral (e.g., post #5344422). Wouldn't that be grounds to keep the tag intact?

If it would be kept to just ferals, and not mistagged on most anthros, humanoids, and humans. Would be better to have something like humanoid_hands_on_feral or feral_with_humanoid_hands instead in that case, and invalidate/disambiguate humanoid_hands itself which is easy to think would apply to anything with human-like hands, which is most things.

watsit said:
If it would be kept to just ferals, and not mistagged on most anthros, humanoids, and humans. Would be better to have something like humanoid_hands_on_feral or feral_with_humanoid_hands instead in that case, and invalidate/disambiguate humanoid_hands itself which is easy to think would apply to anything with human-like hands.

I did not say it should be exclusive to ferals only, nor did I say that it should be excluded from anthros.

If the problem is that anthros should be excluded from humanoid_hands since that is the default, then explicitly state it in the wiki.
That does not mean we should invalidate the whole tag because people are using it a bit too liberally.

thegreatwolfgang said:
If the problem is that anthros should be excluded from humanoid_hands since that is the default, then explicitly state it in the wiki.
That does not mean we should invalidate the whole tag because people are using it a bit too liberally.

Tags do get invalidated for being too easy to mistag, and since I don't think humanoid_hands is good to tag on anthros, humanoids, and humans since it applies to the vast majority if them, it would be too easy to mistag that way in that case and make feral humanoid_hands worthless. That would necessitate the need of something like humanoid_hands_on_feral or feral_with_humanoid_hands, and if humanoid_hands is changed to not apply to anthros/humanoids/humans since it is their default, that makes it redundant.