chujin, sorry to keep you waiting, but she's here now

We'll
Be
Right
Back

thewackywindingo said:
chujin, sorry to keep you waiting, but she's here now

Maybe Asgore kills people without looking them in the face, but I ain't a fink, dig?

You've made your last delivery, kit. Sorry you got twisted up in this scene. From where you're kneeling, must seem like an 18 carat run of bad luck. Truth is... game was rigged from the start.

Genocide route in a nutshell ಥ_ಥ

snowyfoxpixel said:
Genocide route in a nutshell ಥ_ಥ

This is actually based on an alternate ending of the pacifist route. There's a link to the cutscene in the description under the picture.

Bro that hammer for that revolver is wayyyy to small, sadge

akin_tu_treeson said:
Bro that hammer for that revolver is wayyyy to small, sadge

Some really do have hammers that small. Some even have an internal hammer.

From where you're kneeling, this must seem like an 18 karat run of bad luck.
Truth is, the game was rigged from the start.

redhotcat said:
From where you're kneeling, this must seem like an 18 karat run of bad luck.
Truth is, the game was rigged from the start.

post #2336917

Literally the third comment. 🤣

https://youtu.be/CFbW3SJP_qc?si=u8UOjyL5NUvUO0tQ

temp7 said:
This is actually based on an alternate ending of the pacifist route. There's a link to the cutscene in the description under the picture.

the flawed pacifist route, i believe it's called

edit: wait where is the exit wound

kamimatsu said:
the flawed pacifist route, i believe it's called

That is what the fans nickname it, but that's not what it is. At the end of a pacifist run, Ceroba - after trying and failing to steal your soul - surrenders and specifically asks to be executed for her crimes, which are numerous.

The phrase, "flawed pacifist" makes it sound like you made a mistake on the road to pacifism: that's not what's happening here. Killing her is recognized by the game itself as a morally sound decision.

kamimatsu said:
edit: wait where is the exit wound

There isn't one. Pistol shots in particular don't always exit the skull.

temp7 said:
That is what the fans nickname it, but that's not what it is. At the end of a pacifist run, Ceroba - after trying and failing to steal your soul - surrenders and specifically asks to be executed for her crimes, which are numerous.

The phrase, "flawed pacifist" makes it sound like you made a mistake on the road to pacifism: that's not what's happening here. Killing her is recognized by the game itself as a morally sound decision.

There isn't one. Pistol shots in particular don't always exit the skull.

what happened was a suicide. and the game considers it a grey area.
while her crimes are many, it's worth noting that she's not exactly sound of mind. no sane person would ask a child to assist in their suicide.
what makes toriel excusable but not ceroba?
or if not excusable, what makes toriel forgivable but not ceroba. something can be inexcusable but forgivable.

on that note, do you know what a pacifist is? because it isnt someone who executes someone who is no longer a threat, justified or not.

kamimatsu said:
what happened was a suicide. and the game considers it a grey area.
while her crimes are many, it's worth noting that she's not exactly sound of mind. no sane person would ask a child to assist in their suicide.

The game specifically says Clover was just. The only disagreement with that came from a character who basically blew off the entire idea of justice out of grief.

It's not assisted suicide when one side does all the work. That's known as an execution. She committed treason, conducted experiments on a dead human child, killed her own daughter through criminal negligence, premeditated an unsuccessful murder against another child, assaulted a royal guard and a sheriff. That's enough to earn a death sentence in most places several times over.

kamimatsu said:
what makes toriel excusable but not ceroba?
or if not excusable, what makes toriel forgivable but not ceroba. something can be inexcusable but forgivable.

I don't remember comparing Toriel to Ceroba in any way: why would anyone even compare them? If anything, she's more comparable to Asgore and Alphys. She even compares herself to Asgore: specifically the child murder.

kamimatsu said:
on that note, do you know what a pacifist is? because it isnt someone who executes someone who is no longer a threat, justified or not.

A pacifist doesn't arm themselves with a gun before willingly jumping down into a hostile land on a mission. Clover was gunning for Asgore from the beginning: Clover can't even get back to the surface without killing a boss monster.

temp7 said:
The game specifically says Clover was just. The only disagreement with that came from a character who basically blew off the entire idea of justice out of grief.

It's not assisted suicide when one side does all the work. That's known as an execution. She committed treason, conducted experiments on a dead human child, killed her own daughter through criminal negligence, premeditated an unsuccessful murder against another child, assaulted a royal guard and a sheriff. That's enough to earn a death sentence in most places several times over.

I don't remember comparing Toriel to Ceroba in any way: why would anyone even compare them? If anything, she's more comparable to Asgore and Alphys. She even compares herself to Asgore: specifically the child murder.

A pacifist doesn't arm themselves with a gun before willingly jumping down into a hostile land on a mission. Clover was gunning for Asgore from the beginning: Clover can't even get back to the surface without killing a boss monster.

youve ignored the whole "not of sound mind" bit. also, the difference between what is law, and what is just. you've also ignored cases like kevorkian, who "did all the work" in what were absolutely suicides. assisted suicide is a real thing. you have also ignored the true pacifist ending, where clover explicitly DOESNT kill. at all. pacifists are made. not born.

kamimatsu said:
youve ignored the whole "not of sound mind" bit. you've also ignored cases like kevorkian, who "did all the work" in what were absolutely suicides. you have also ignored the true pacifist ending, where clover explicitly DOESNT kill. at all. pacifists are made. not born.

I'm not ignoring anything. Did kevorkian euthanize criminals, specifically? Well that's what Clover is doing here. Ceroba isn't on a deathbed. And the "true pacifist" run - an unofficial name, just like "flawed pacifist" - in no way invalidates anything I said. Besides, we aren't discussing that run. Were discussing the run where Clover shoots Ceroba in the head. Pacifism was never the intention.

The actual "flawed pacifist" run of Undertale involves killing no one, and not befriending everyone. Undertale Yellow's "flawed pacifist" involves explicit killing, so I don't agree with the fan-name.

temp7 said:
I'm not ignoring anything. Did kevorkian euthanize criminals, specifically? Well that's what Clover is doing here. Ceroba isn't on a deathbed. And the "true pacifist" run - an unofficial name, just like "flawed pacifist" - in no way invalidates anything I said. Besides, we aren't discussing that run. Were discussing the run where Clover shoots Ceroba in the head. Pacifism was never the intention.

The actual "flawed pacifist" run of Undertale involves killing no one, and not befriending everyone. Undertale Yellow's "flawed pacifist" involves explicit killing, so I don't agree with the fan-name.

you are now ignoring what "flawed" means. and the other runs are relevant. thats where flawed pacifist gets the name. that makes them relevant. it is a flawed attempt at a pacifist run.

your argument also assumes that anything under a label must, at all times, be exaftly identical to everything else in it. it also, again, ignores that pacifists are made, not born. whatever clover's mission going in was, that doesnt guarantee it will remain this way. clover is a child. and children change their minds. a lot.

exploring what exactly justice means, is pointless when looking at it in a black and white manner. there would only be two sides: the good guys and the bad guys. this isnt what we're seeing.

kamimatsu said:
you are now ignoring what "flawed" means. and the other runs are relevant. thats where flawed pacifist gets the name. that makes them relevant. it is a flawed attempt at a pacifist run.

Presumptuous assumption on your part. Anyone choosing to shoot Ceroba wasn't necessarily trying to be a pacifist in the first place.

kamimatsu said:
your argument also assumes that anything under a label must, at all times, be exaftly identical to everything else in it. it also, again, ignores that pacifists are made, not born. whatever clover's mission going in was, that doesnt guarantee it will remain this way. clover is a child. and children change their minds. a lot.

And in this run, Clover chose NOT to be a pacifist. I don't know why that is so hard for you to understand.

temp7 said:
Presumptuous assumption on your part. Anyone choosing to shoot Ceroba wasn't necessarily trying to be a pacifist in the first place.

And in this run, Clover chose NOT to be a pacifist. I don't know why that is so hard for you to understand.

Do you know what a flaw is. It is not a perfect thing

Do you know what changing one's mind is. It is not sticking to the same principle

Would you kindly stop moving the goalposts

kamimatsu said:
Do you know what a flaw is. It is not a perfect thing

Do you know what changing one's mind is. It is not sticking to the same principle

Would you kindly stop moving the goalposts

I'm not moving any goalposts. When you shoot someone in the face, you aren't a pacifist. That's my "goalpost".

temp7 said:
I'm not moving any goalposts. When you shoot someone in the face, you aren't a pacifist. That's my "goalpost".

Why do you think it's called flawed? It's because, at the last minute, the pacifist route failed. Failure is a thing that exists, as is acting contrary to one's intent. If clover were, before this, anything but pacifist, they wouldn't be in this situation, because their soul would be utterly useless.

Also you did. You said "its not suicide if someone else does all the work" i specified a person that proved this incorrect, and then you chose to pretend you argued differently

kamimatsu said:
Why do you think it's called flawed

Also you did. You said "its not suicide if someone else does all the work" i specified a person that proved tjis incorrect, and then you chose to pretend you argued differently

Kevorkian? Kevorkian didn't kill criminals. Clover did. As I said, Ceroba isn't on a deathbed, so your counterexample isn't even a counterexample.

"You think I don't know how far gone I am!?"

"I'm no better than Asgore on a scale of morality, I'm sure of it."

"I am a hypocrite. A liar. Sure."

"I have done unforgivable things."

All of those are statements by Ceroba herself. And then Martlet's response:

"I didn't say she 'deserved' anything but come on! Look what she did to us, and more importantly, what she was planning to do to Clover and Kanako!"

"We wanted peace. You saw it. Even when things escalated, we attempted to flee. But she wanted us dead. Going as far to back Clover into a corner. (...) I'm sorry but, under these circumstances, Clover was just."

She's being executed for her crimes, explicitly. The entire theme of the game is Justice.

temp7 said:
Kevorkian? Kevorkian didn't kill criminals. Clover did. As I said, Ceroba isn't on a deathbed, so your counterexample isn't even a counterexample.

"You think I don't know how far gone I am!?"

"I'm no better than Asgore on a scale of morality, I'm sure of it."

"I am a hypocrite. A liar. Sure."

"I have done unforgivable things."

All of those are statements by Ceroba herself. And then Martlet's response:

"I didn't say she 'deserved' anything but come on! Look what she did to us, and more importantly, what she was planning to do to Clover and Kanako!"

"We wanted peace. You saw it. Even when things escalated, we attempted to flee. But she wanted us dead. Going as far to back Clover into a corner. (...) I'm sorry but, under these circumstances, Clover was just."

She's being executed for her crimes, explicitly. The entire theme of the game is Justice.

and if ceroba was a reliable source of information, she wouldnt be crazy, and she is crazy.

you did it again. your argument was "It's not assisted suicide when one side does all the work."

the theme of the game is exploring what justice even is. this is impossible when the player has already made up their mind. this conversation is over.

kamimatsu said:
what happened was a suicide. and the game considers it a grey area.
while her crimes are many, it's worth noting that she's not exactly sound of mind. no sane person would ask a child to assist in their suicide.
what makes toriel excusable but not ceroba?
or if not excusable, what makes toriel forgivable but not ceroba. something can be inexcusable but forgivable.

on that note, do you know what a pacifist is? because it isnt someone who executes someone who is no longer a threat, justified or not.

She literally asked for death, its mercy. What makes tori forgivable is that she didnt partake in the slaughter of the humans, it was never mentioned actually, as she ssid it herself every human that leaves dies, while ceroba...well her crimes are many and most are just her stupidity ngl

ark1201 said:
She literally asked for death, its mercy. What makes tori forgivable is that she didnt partake in the slaughter of the humans, it was never mentioned actually, as she ssid it herself every human that leaves dies, while ceroba...well her crimes are many and most are just her stupidity ngl

toriel is an unreliable source of information, and had one job, and abandoned it because it got difficult. more than once. toriel flat out locked the door just in case you chance your mind. toriel never even acknowledges her part in it, choosing instead to play the pity card.

ceroba is, at worst, a mental patient, and people tend to equate insanity with evil. and im not sure you know what a suicide is.

Toriel: tried to save a child from Asgore by trapping them in the ruins. Gave up when the child insisted on leaving.

Ceroba: carefully planned to murder a human over several hours, culminating in a fight to the death on a rooftop. Gave up when the child beat her senseless.

temp7 said:
Toriel: tried to save a child from Asgore by trapping them in the ruins. Gave up when the child insisted on leaving.

Ceroba: carefully planned to murder a human over several hours, culminating in a fight to the death on a rooftop. Gave up when the child beat her senseless.

Toriel gave up a responsibility she took on several times because it was difficult, over the course of centuries, while one died on her watch. All the while slinging guilt. Then dogwhistled asgore a suggestion to kill himself while bringing up the worst night of his life

Ceroba was denied the mental help she needed and suffered a mental breakdown as a result. And STILL managed to acknowledge a mistake. What ceroba needed was to be put in a mental home where she could get some goddamn help.

kamimatsu said:
Toriel gave up a responsibility she took on several times because it was difficult, over the course of centuries, while one died on her watch. All the while slinging guilt. Then dogwhistled asgore a suggestion to kill himself while bringing up the worst night of his life

Ceroba was denied the mental help she needed and suffered a mental breakdown as a result. And STILL managed to acknowledge a mistake. What ceroba needed was to be put in a mental home where she could get some goddamn help.

I thought you didn't want to talk to me anymore.

I agree Ceroba needs help: that in no way absolves her of her crimes, which were deliberate and premeditated. Asgore murdered 6 children in cold blood. The endgame for both of them is destroying humanity as a whole: Asgore by becoming a god, Ceroba by her serum empowering all monsters to Asgore levels.

And are you saying Toriel isn't also traumatized? After losing her biological son and adoptive son, before any other humans fell? All Toriel ever did was fail at being a protector: Ceroba poisoned her own child, and tried to murder another one.

temp7 said:
I thought you didn't want to talk to me anymore.

I agree Ceroba needs help: that in no way absolves her of her crimes, which were deliberate and premeditated. Asgore murdered 6 children in cold blood. The endgame for both of them is destroying humanity as a whole: Asgore by becoming a god, Ceroba by her serum empowering all monsters to Asgore levels.

And are you saying Toriel isn't also traumatized? After losing her biological son and adoptive son, before any other humans fell? All Toriel ever did was fail at being a protector: Ceroba poisoned her own child, and tried to murder another one.

Toriel abandoned her post as queen because it was hard. If she were at all traumatized she would not have purposely targeted someone else's trauma over the same event

And im not talking about trauma. Im talking about downright insanity. Ceroba is off her fucking rocker and someone should have stepped in and realized she wasn't fit to raise a kid

Im not talking about being absolved. Im talking about being forgiven

And you gave up the right to use the first bit of ammo when you restarted the discussion

kamimatsu said:
And you gave up the right to use the first bit of ammo when you restarted the discussion

Except the comment
1. Wasn't specifically directed at you. The only way you saw it is by hovering around waiting for new comments. You didn't need to reply.
2. I wasn't the one who said "this conversation is over" That was you. I never indicated a desire to cease. As I said, I thought you didn't want to talk to me anymore.

kamimatsu said:
Toriel abandoned her post as queen because it was hard. If she were at all traumatized she would not have purposely targeted someone else's trauma over the same event

Since when is that how trauma works? Even Ceroba does that exact same thing:

Ceroba: "Shut up! You think I don't know how far gone I am!? And where's this high horse coming from??? Sounds to me like we're in this pit together."

Trauma provokes all kinds of defensive reactions.

kamimatsu said:
And im not talking about trauma. Im talking about downright insanity. Ceroba is off her fucking rocker and someone should have stepped in and realized she wasn't fit to raise a kid

Im not talking about being absolved. Im talking about being forgiven

Amazing that you can't forgive Toriel for leaving her child murdering husband and at least attempting to save children from his evil... but you can forgive Ceroba for the premeditated murder of a child.

temp7 said:
Except the comment
1. Wasn't specifically directed at you. The only way you saw it is by hovering around waiting for new comments. You didn't need to reply.
2. I wasn't the one who said "this conversation is over" That was you. I never indicated a desire to cease. As I said, I thought you didn't want to talk to me anymore.

Since when is that how trauma works? Even Ceroba does that exact same thing:

Ceroba: "Shut up! You think I don't know how far gone I am!? And where's this high horse coming from??? Sounds to me like we're in this pit together."

Trauma provokes all kinds of defensive reactions.

Amazing that you can't forgive Toriel for leaving her child murdering husband and at least attempting to save children from his evil... but you can forgive Ceroba for the premeditated murder of a child.

I know when someone is talking to me. I'm not an idiot.

There is a difference between lashing out and purposely trying to drive someone in your situation to suicide just to pretend you're the only one suffering.

Toriel had a job as queen and had the authority and power to override asgore, and by her own goating had a way prepared. Either she's telling the truth and chose to genocide her own people out of spite, or she's lying and jyst wanted asgore to kill himself

Toriel had the power and self appointed position to save everyone yet only chose to APPEAR to, abandoning every ounce of effort the moment any effort was needed

At her core, toriel is someone who wanted to create a villain to defeat, so she could pretend to be something she can never be: a hero.

Ceroba and asgore were PLACED in their position and had no possible right answer

kamimatsu said:
I know when someone is talking to me. I'm not an idiot.

The comment was not addressed to you. You chose to reply.

kamimatsu said:
There is a difference between lashing out and purposely trying to drive someone in your situation to suicide just to pretend you're the only one suffering.

Toriel had a job as queen and had the authority and power to override asgore, and by her own goating had a way prepared. Either she's telling the truth and chose to genocide her own people out of spite, or she's lying and jyst wanted asgore to kill himself

Toriel had the power and self appointed position to save everyone yet only chose to APPEAR to, abandoning every ounce of effort the moment any effort was needed

Where do you get the idea that Toriel had the authority to override Asgore? How is her position as queen "self appointed"?

kamimatsu said:
At her core, toriel is someone who wanted to create a villain to defeat, so she could pretend to be something she can never be: a hero.

I think you have Toriel confused with Alphys. Toriel didn't create the human/monster war. Toriel didn't make her husband kill children.

kamimatsu said:
Ceroba and asgore were PLACED in their position and had no possible right answer

You are objectively incorrect here. Asgore has given an explicit order to kill any humans they find: that is why monsters attack you in Undertale. If that order had never been given, the human children would have no reason to attack monsters after falling down. They'd be able to live out their lives naturally - they'd eventually even break the barrier peacefully by giving their souls after death... instead, they get attacked the moment they arrive.

Ceroba's situation isn't defensible either. Chujin is dead. She's hardly qualified to continue his treasonous research, and furthermore, has (...had) a daughter to take care of. All she had to do is not continue his experiments. But she didn't: in the end she killed her own little girl, assaulted a sheriff, a deputy, and a royal guard, attempted murder... all for nothing in the end.

Okay that's enough arguing for one century. Take it to DMs, or if you please, somewhere else. Just not here. You two have been going at it in public for days now.

Why is this so hot…?

As Starlo would say... "You are lower then dirt."

nexus_traveler said:
As Starlo would say... "You are lower then dirt."

As Clover would say... "I'm sorry."

_{(I have a soft spot for tragic stories like this... help me)}

lol (i am look at this image because i saw it in a pfp)

Pov : Undertale genocide if it was good. (It has blood)

viberadrenaline said:
Pov : Undertale genocide if it was good. (It has blood)

Meanwhile, Sans...

Also, this particular scene only happens at the end of Undertale Yellow's Pacifist run ...if you choose this outcome.

she'll be fine. a little gunshot wound never hurt anybody.

Wait, sheesh this is dark! Very much so without that much gore, but ok wait, this is the 3rd pic I see of this new character gal from the already(!?!?) released Undertale Yellow that’s like Western based? Who is she cuz yeah, she’s definitely gunna be popular here! Well I don’t want to get so spoiled this early so i ain’t reading all the messages of comments here that are above me!

Live leak cartel execution footage looking ahh

kamimatsu said:
the flawed pacifist route, i believe it's called

edit: wait where is the exit wound

hair is hiding it probably :shrug:

This is added to my Mr Game and Watch furry killing headcanon

Man where did all of that blood come from?

sparky_fritz said:
Man where did all of that blood come from?

Same place blood usually comes from

It was at this moment that she knew
She fucked up

Clover bouta get killed by Asgore

cheesytee said:
Clover bouta get killed by Asgore

As predicted years before Undertale Yellow released.

Not much of a prediction, to be honest: we saw where the Yellow Soul was in Undertale.

i was born to blast

temp7 said:
As predicted years before Undertale Yellow released.

Not much of a prediction, to be honest: we saw where the Yellow Soul was in Undertale.

oh

cheesytee said:
oh

Yeah. We knew this was going to happen since the original Undertale showed the souls of the humans Asgore murdered. Clover is the yellow one.

temp7 said:
Yeah. We knew this was going to happen since the original Undertale showed the souls of the humans Asgore murdered. Clover is the yellow one.

i haven't played undertale, just watched (youtube videos of) it, thanks

leaellynasaura said:
Wait, sheesh this is dark! Very much so without that much gore, but ok wait, this is the 3rd pic I see of this new character gal from the already(!?!?) released Undertale Yellow that’s like Western based? Who is she cuz yeah, she’s definitely gunna be popular here! Well I don’t want to get so spoiled this early so i ain’t reading all the messages of comments here that are above me!

late reply but worth it, have fun if you haven't already :)