The tag alias #80982 hug_invitation -> hug_request is pending approval.
Reason: Same concept. hug_request has been used a bit more than hug_invitation (85 to 55) and it has a little wiki already.
Topic: Tag alias: hug_invitation -> hug_request
Posted under Tag Alias and Implication Suggestions
These are technically different things. hug_invitation is offering a hug to another person; hug_request is requesting a hug from another person. It's the same distinction as inviting_to_sex vs. sex_request.
beholding said:
These are technically different things. hug_invitation is offering a hug to another person; hug_request is requesting a hug from another person. It's the same distinction as inviting_to_sex vs. sex_request.
I follow your logic, but when I look at the images under both tags, it's the same gesture in both cases. Basically, we're talking about tagging this pose:
I use that example, because I noticed there were two tags when I uploaded it, and I didn't know which to pick, so I used both. I don't think there is much value distinguishing between "I invite you to hug me!" and "I request that you hug me!" so I think it's benefical to consolidate. Do you look at the images under both tags and think there is a clear distinction?
I do like the idea of having a recipient-giver split for these kinda things. I wonder if separating invitation from request might be a possible solution. we do have the issue of stuff like impregnation_request being used for two essentially opposite scenarios.
although, I'm not exactly sure if the differentiation is clear with the wording on its own...
dba_afish said:
I do like the idea of having a recipient-giver split for these kinda things. I wonder if separating invitation from request might be a possible solution. we do have the issue of stuff like impregnation_request being used for two essentially opposite scenarios.although, I'm not exactly sure if the differentiation is clear with the wording on its own...
You would have to create a third tag. There is no recipient / giver division implied. "Request" and "Invitation" are going to be strong synonyms in any English thesaurus.
yet for request you also have post like post #3640428 that is clearly a request for comfort..
maybe we should go with clearer tags like offering_hug and requesting_hug
bleakdragoon said:
maybe we should go with clearer tags like offering_hug and requesting_hug
+1
bleakdragoon said:
yet for request you also have post like post #3640428 that is clearly a request for comfort..
maybe we should go with clearer tags like offering_hug and requesting_hug
The image you used as an example seems like one of the only images under either tag that does not have the "can I get a hug" gesture in it. The way you suggest relabeling the tags is a little clearer, but almost any image where a person is holding out their arms for a hug could be interpreted as offering_hug or requesting_hug, so it doesn't resolve the ambiguity / redundancy, IMO.
donkdewd said:
The image you used as an example seems like one of the only images under either tag that does not have the "can I get a hug" gesture in it. The way you suggest relabeling the tags is a little clearer, but almost any image where a person is holding out their arms for a hug could be interpreted as offering_hug or requesting_hug, so it doesn't resolve the ambiguity / redundancy, IMO.
I don't agree.
Requests are almost always an offer for recomfort, the character show sign of sorrow or depression.
Offers are almost always offered by happy or playful characters. Either for welcoming someone, recomfort said depressed character or for teasing/sexual reasons
clear request:
post #5113611 post #5769989 post #5245722 post #4964489 post #5121939 post #3244281
clear offer:
post #6020748 post #2253495 post #2894762 post #6007465 post #5239381 post #4554670 post #4556503
Updated
bleakdragoon said:
I don't agree.Requests are almost always an offer for recomfort, the character show sign of sorrow or depression.
Offers are almost always offered by happy or playful characters. Either for welcoming someone, recomfort said depressed character or for teasing/sexual reasons
clear request:
post #5113611 post #5769989 post #5245722 post #4964489 post #5121939 post #3244281
clear offer:
post #6020748 post #2253495 post #2894762 post #6007465 post #5239381 post #4554670 post #4556503
Agree to disagree, then. "Can I get a hug?" is literally and definitionally a request, in addition to being an offer. It's not true that someone tagging an image like post #6020748 would know whether to use one or the other or both.
If it's really the same concept, then it should be a more general tag than hug_request something that means both offering and requesting.
[Edit]
If you really want to describe the gesture, you have the spread_arms tag.
As long as we use natural language for tags, there will always be some measure of uncertainty.
Example: What objectively the distinction between a big_penis and a huge_penis? There's certainly some overlap and it's fine.
Updated
bleakdragoon said:
If it's really the same concept, then it should be a more general tag than hug_request something that means both offering and requesting.
"hug_request" is already in use, so that's the term most people have gravitated towards for this scenario. If you can think of another term, I'm open to suggestions, but I don't see a problem with the original alias suggestion, since a "request" for a hug is also an "invitation" for a hug. I still think we're covering the same ground with these tags. Like I said in my last post - this is "agree to disagree" territory. It's fine that you have a different view.
bleakdragoon said:
If you really want to describe the gesture, you have the spread_arms tag.
Doesn't the existence of a third tag actually make the case for combining these two very similar tags together stronger? It's frustrating having to use three tags to help people find what they're looking for, when two tags will do just fine. That's the whole point of the alias system, IMO. Consolidating helps you search the site, search your favorites, rediscover lost images, discover new things - having two near-synonymous tags has disadvantages you are not acknowledging.
As long as we use natural language for tags, there will always be some measure of uncertainty.
Example: What objectively the distinction between a big_penis and a huge_penis? There's certainly some overlap and it's fine.
Some overlap is fine, I think every alias request is a judgement call where you are weighing the value of additional nuance vs. simplifying the search and tagging process, but there is like 98% overlap here.
donkdewd said:
Doesn't the existence of a third tag actually make the case for combining these two very similar tags together stronger? [...] That's the whole point of the alias system
No, the point of the alias system is to make synonyms point to the same concept, if you're frustrated because you have to add an extra tag, that's on you. it's TWYS and if it needs a hundred tag it's because there's a hundred things to see.
You can have the arms spread for a variety of other reasons: BDSM/being tied, expressive "feeling the wind/ray of light, imitating a plane.
You can make a request because you need a hug without offering a hug: that's the case off a sorrowful images where the hugged one is rolled in a ball.
You can offer a hug without a request. etc.
Aliasing for the sake of it is just a bad way use of the aliasing system.
bleakdragoon said:
No, the point of the alias system is to make synonyms point to the same concept...
When I go to Thesaurus.com and type "invitation", "request" is one of the "Strongest" matches under "synonyms". I was being generous to you when I said they were "near-synonymous", which you jumped on in an uncharitable way to make it seem like I don't understand the alias system. Also, the argument I am making is that these *do* point to the same concept.
Also, there are many, many cases where tags that are not synonymous have been combined. Gaming_computer to Computer. Big_biceps to muscular_arms. Bank_robbery to robbery. Your argument that tags need to be perfect synonyms is just wrong, and not how we've done things.
It feels like you're dug in here. I've said "agree to disagree" twice already, and I don't think this is worth more back-and-forth.
donkdewd said:
...
When you offer something, you're doing to give.
When you request something, you're gong to receive.
If you want to agree to disagree on the fact the concept of giving is not the same as receiving, I don't know what to tell you.
That said, you bring a fair point for near-synonyms, those are valid alias cases especially for narrow concepts.
Also, I never said I agree with those aliases;
big_biceps should imply muscular_arms, not be an alias, and that's the reason why people complain there's so many quirks and nonsense in the tagging system.
bleakdragoon said:
When you offer something, you're doing to give.
When you request something, you're gong to receive.If you want to agree to disagree on the fact the concept of giving is not the same as receiving, I don't know what to tell you.
We've already been through this. Of course I know "give" and receive" are different words. However, the tags I suggested consolidating are not "give_hug" or "receive_hug"; they are hug_invitation and hug_request, and I've already said almost any image where a person is holding out their arms for a hug is both a request and an invitation (and an offer!) I'm actually not a stupid person - I just disagree with you.
Look, I don't do all that many alias suggestions. I'm surprised this one has opposition, but that's ok. I uploaded a picture of someone doing the "let's hug" gesture and I noticed there were two tags for one thing (from my subjective POV), so I thought an alias would be a good idea to help the site in a really small way. If the alias is rejected, that's ok - I'm not putting any ego into this.