I'm guessing its a fan based character mod to fluttershy ive been removing them since yesterday from images.

Don't forget flutterbat I saw this while tagging.

My FSM...
I dug deeper, and discovered post #291667
Tags on this post gave me cancer.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
Don't forget flutterbat I saw this while tagging.

My FSM...
I dug deeper, and discovered post #291667
Tags on this post gave me cancer.

Dear God! @.@' *has tag stroke*

I did my best to clean up that atrocity.
And the other similarly tagged page of the same comic.
There's no reason to tag all those tumblrs, and we certainly don't tag all the alternate character versions that are made up for them.

Flutterbat is not a fan character mod, though it is a fandom tag. It's from the latest episode when Fluttershy is bitten by a bat and goes vampiric... for apples. Iunno. *shrug* What the roomie explained to me and what doing a quick google showed me.

123easy said:
Flutterbat is not a fan character mod, though it is a fandom tag. It's from the latest episode when Fluttershy is bitten by a bat and goes vampiric... for apples. Iunno. *shrug* What the roomie explained to me and what doing a quick google showed me.

Oh, so it's pinkamena all over again. How cute. :/
You know, fuck that. I make my new year's resolution. I'm going to learn how to draw, draw my own furry original character do not steal, and going to tag him with different character tags depending on whether he's wearing glasses, or what color of his eyes is, what type of penis he has, etc.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
Oh, so it's pinkamena all over again. How cute. :/
You know, fuck that. I make my new year's resolution. I'm going to learn how to draw, draw my own furry original character do not steal, and going to tag him with different character tags depending on whether he's wearing glasses, or what color of his eyes is, what type of penis he has, etc.

Pinkamena, Futashy, Molestia, Trollestia, yeah. It's one of those.

123easy said:
Flutterbat is not a fan character mod, though it is a fandom tag. It's from the latest episode when Fluttershy is bitten by a bat and goes vampiric... for apples. Iunno. *shrug* What the roomie explained to me and what doing a quick google showed me.

Soooooo it needs to be aliased then because its still fluttershy and flutterbat is a fan name.

We don't tag zombie_pony, we shouldn't tag vampire ponies either.

Tags should be fluttershy vampire bat_wings.

It's not a vampire, though. No blood is drawn or sucked, though many fruit were harmed. No hypnosis or anything; The bats are called vampire fruit bats, but that's only because of the visual connotations of sucking the juices of the fruit rather than eating it. Not sure that should qualify for vampirism.

I suppose it could be tagged with "hybrid" and "bat" instead of vampire, but that would be up to whether or not it counts as a vampire.

123easy said:
It's not a vampire, though. No blood is drawn or sucked, though many fruit were harmed. No hypnosis or anything; The bats are called vampire fruit bats, but that's only because of the visual connotations of sucking the juices of the fruit rather than eating it. Not sure that should qualify for vampirism.

Still it's more true vampire than those in Twilight.

"hybrid" and "fruit_bat" sounds much more appropriate than vampire.

Esme_Belles said:
Soooooo it needs to be aliased then because its still fluttershy and flutterbat is a fan name.

pinkamena is a fan name but it seems for some reason we allow that....so I doubt anything will be done about this mess -.-

I mean all you have to do to find pinkamena is straight_hair + pinkie_pie, just like fluttershy + vampire. Why this gets its own char tag from a simple change of hairstyle or teeth i have no idea.

Conker said:
This crap getting its own character tag again is just stupid.

bronies

Flutterbat is just the fandom name given to the fruitbat-minded fluttershy, I don't mind if it were gone like bat_pony.

We need some kind of alias that can split a tag into several others, for example, in this case flutterbat, which would be split into fluttershy_(mlp) bat slit_eyes etc, etc

Edit: blip #7914 kinda related

Conker said:
I mean all you have to do to find pinkamena is straight_hair + pinkie_pie, just like fluttershy + vampire. Why this gets its own char tag from a simple change of hairstyle or teeth i have no idea as it doesn't make a lick of sense and is beyond stupid...

It's because using search system requires intelligence and we want to make our site accessible also to plants and politicians. You see people searching for tag a and b? Let's make artificial tags a_and_b and a_or_b. Minus and tilde signs are for nerds. In few years there would be one tag search limit, but we're going to have billions tags like female_tiger_-male_naked_umbrella

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
It's because using search system requires intelligence and we want to make our site accessible also to plants and politicians. You see people searching for tag a and b? Let's make artificial tags a_and_b and a_or_b. Minus and tilde signs are for nerds. In few years there would be one tag search limit, but we're going to have billions tags like female_tiger_-male_naked_umbrella

This needs to change. I mean the pony clone of e621 has a lot of users who say we have far better tagging than them. So why are we using their retarded tags on here?

Conker said:
This needs to change. I mean the pony clone of e621 has a lot of users who say we have far better tagging than them. So why are we using their retarded tags on here?

Fortunately because this tag was quickly deleted maybe it's not going to stay. Exaggerations aside I really have no idea why many other fandom tags were aliased, but pinkamena was left untouched. There was mass murder of many fandom tags and nobody was against it, especially among admins.

Speaking of which. :3

post #420198

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
Fortunately because this tag was quickly deleted maybe it's not going to stay. Exaggerations aside I really have no idea why many other fandom tags were aliased, but pinkamena was left untouched. There was mass murder of many fandom tags and nobody was against it, especially among admins.

See I never mentioned the menia tag Cuz I always thought she was a reoccuring character, I thought every time pinkie got sad or depressed she flipped....like hyper bipolar.
As you can see I have never watched mlp. Just the fluffle puff tails on youtube, Cuz I'm smitten with that character (probably Cuz she reminds me of.....well, me. Lol)

Honestly I didn't realise this would be such a big issue. I thought it was a tag like trollestia. Looks like I kicked the hornet nest yet again... :(

Esme_Belles said:
See I never mentioned the menia tag Cuz I always thought she was a reoccuring character, I thought every time pinkie got sad or depressed she flipped....like hyper bipolar.
As you can see I have never watched mlp. Just the fluffle puff tails on youtube, Cuz I'm smitten with that character (probably Cuz she reminds me of.....well, me. Lol)

I stopped watching mlp before season 3 finale, but up to that episode there wasn't anything like that anymore. Flutterbat seems to be very similar to pinkamena tag. I dare to say that it would make much more sense to tag Twilight in her stressed state because she was like that once in a while.

And then because of all this stress she got two big cancers related changes on her sides and is slowly dying. This still is more logical than official version

Honestly I didn't realise this would be such a big issue. I thought it was a tag like trollestia. Looks like I kicked the hornet nest yet again... :(

Here, have some forum threads about it:
forum #71291
forum #93307

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
It's because using search system requires intelligence and we want to make our site accessible also to plants and politicians. You see people searching for tag a and b? Let's make artificial tags a_and_b and a_or_b. Minus and tilde signs are for nerds. In few years there would be one tag search limit, but we're going to have billions tags like female_tiger_-male_naked_umbrella

you know I clicked just to see if that tag search was real.... I need more sleep.

...yeeesh after looking at those other threads I'm starting to think mlp is becoming a disease to e621. Its destroying its own policys inorder to accomidate crazed bronies. Lol

Esme_Belles said:
...yeeesh after looking at those other threads I'm starting to think mlp is becoming a disease to e621. Its destroying its own policys inorder to accomidate crazed bronies. Lol

Heh. This is why I'm so against most of those tags. If it makes sense within the format we've decided on using certain types of tags (See: Power_Ponies and the tags for the costumed identities, or tags that can apply outside of just specific fandom situations) then they should stay, but not if they're just a fandom creation of two things we already tag (Pinkamena and the rest of the fandom-only tags).

Also, consideration for Thestral tag? Slightly skeletal, bat-winged horses from Harry potter that can only be seen by those who have witnessed and understood death, sure, but... eh, the rest of it seems fitting. 8shrug* otherwise just hybrid pony fruit_bat.

123easy said:

Also, consideration for Thestral tag? Slightly skeletal, bat-winged horses from Harry potter that can only be seen by those who have witnessed and understood death, sure, but... eh, the rest of it seems fitting. 8shrug* otherwise just hybrid pony fruit_bat.

Forget about HP definition. Thestral tag is already taken over by ponies. Aliasing flutterbat to this doesn't sound bad actually.

Judging by the recent trend of keeping absolutely every tag relating to ponies, I wouldn't be surprised if this alias was denied.

ippiki_ookami said:
Judging by the recent trend of keeping absolutely every tag relating to ponies, I wouldn't be surprised if this alias was denied.

Now now, Ippiki. Power_Ponies and their related costumed identities is an argument mostly unrelated to them being ponies or not, but about how costumed identities are tagged. Most of where the "Ponies" specific attribution comes into effect is where if it was Justice League and Superman, Batman, Green Lantern and all the rest being tagged, I'm sure it would have not been an issue to have them all tagged individually.

It's only Pinakmena and Trollestia/Molestia and the related tags that don't perform any benefit besides intra-fandom searchability, rather than intra- and inter-fandom searchability, that we are having trouble with.

123easy said:
Now now, Ippiki. Power_Ponies and their related costumed identities is an argument mostly unrelated to them being ponies or not, but about how costumed identities are tagged. Most of where the "Ponies" specific attribution comes into effect is where if it was Justice League and Superman, Batman, Green Lantern and all the rest being tagged, I'm sure it would have not been an issue to have them all tagged individually.

It's only Pinakmena and Trollestia/Molestia and the related tags that don't perform any benefit besides intra-fandom searchability, rather than intra- and inter-fandom searchability, that we are having trouble with.

Power_ponies tags still haven't been deemed acceptable tags, dunno why you're talking about them like they have.

Xch3l said:
Flutterbat is just the fandom name given to the fruitbat-minded fluttershy, I don't mind if it were gone like bat_pony.

The bat_pony -> invalid_tag alias was deleted, so apparently bat_pony's legit now.

ippiki_ookami said:
The bat_pony -> invalid_tag alias was deleted, so apparently bat_pony's legit now.

post #86635

ippiki_ookami said:
The bat_pony -> invalid_tag alias was deleted, so apparently bat_pony's legit now.

What? When I checked, it was aliased to invalid_tag

ippiki_ookami said:
The bat_pony -> invalid_tag alias was deleted, so apparently bat_pony's legit now.

...and who did that? ...and why? Why no discussion before changing of tags?

Conker said:
...and who did that? ...and why? Why no discussion before changing of tags?

Rainbow Dash did, 2 hours ago.
Because ponies.

What the fuck. Seriously?

Halite said:
Rainbow Dash did, 2 hours ago.
Because ponies.

123easy said:
What the fuck. Seriously?

Why was there no discussion about this? Why are we suddenly tossing out logic and using fannames for tag what you see? Why is "pony" stuff getting a free pass at this without any discussion on the matter? What is going on?

RainbowDash if you are reading this, can you tell me why?

Come on guys, positive thinking. Maybe it was unaliased from invalid tag only to be aliased to Thestral

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
Come on guys, positive thinking. Maybe it was unaliased from invalid tag only to be aliased to Thestral

Link doesn't work for me, odd. What is it?

Conker said:
Link doesn't work for me, odd. What is it?

Weird, it's wiki for thestral - https://e621.net/wiki/show?title=thestral

Halite said:
We don't tag zombie_pony, we shouldn't tag vampire ponies either.

Tags should be fluttershy vampire bat_wings.

See now you only have three tags left to have in the search bar. Not helpful. We really need to take another look at why we even tag. To be able to filter our results in the most efficient way possible. Having to type more tags out when one tag could sufficiently cover those, means you have more room in the search bar to narrow it down by other types of tags.

Conker said:
pinkamena is a fan name but it seems for some reason we allow that....so I doubt anything will be done about this mess -.-

I mean all you have to do to find pinkamena is straight_hair + pinkie_pie, just like fluttershy + vampire. Why this gets its own char tag from a simple change of hairstyle or teeth i have no idea as it doesn't make a lick of sense and is beyond stupid...

Pinkamena is not a fan name and neither is her appearance. Consistently different and it makes tagging more accurate.

It's like having the subspecies for ponies like pegasus and unicorn. You could just use pony + wings/horn but since we have one tag that covers the ned of two tags, we have freed up one of six tags for the user's search bar and that really is the most important thing. It's not about being technically correct or even being consistent, it's about having a useful search bar. If that means we have to break up some tags that technically are not correct to our standard tagging policies, then that's fine because it is helping the site.

That is why the alias is denied, and we are going to take a look at breaking up a few other character tags as well

See now you only have three tags left to have in the search bar. Not helpful.

Oh, how sweet. But, when are you guys going to help people outside the pony fandom? You know, these guys who want to search for loli, but have to search for young female, and have existential crisis because it uses two tags, not one. (And it's really not accurate)
What happened to Rainbow Dash from here? Was she kidnapped by changelings? And now is forced to accept this kind of tags, but only for whining fandoms. This sounds like a very good story for fanfic.

Pinkamena is not a fan name and neither is her appearance. Consistently different and it makes tagging more accurate.

You could really consult it with others, because others, including char, claimed that this is indeed just appearance - straight hair. Someone is not telling the truth. You know, you guys are such a defenders of this tag, but you can't even come to conclusion what does it exactly mean.

It's like having the subspecies for ponies like pegasus and unicorn.

*hint hint* thestral tag. It's not aliased, and you bronies are using it for bat ponies already. Now one tag is not enough for you?

That is why the alias is denied, and we are going to take a look at breaking up a few other character tags as well

Oh, how fun. We're going to have futashy, flutterdragon, flutterfly, crossgendered_fluttershy, fluttertree, and all other flutterwhatever back. Can we have also separate tags for sea_salt when he isn't gangraped? Or separate tag for each continuity - it would explain why he is always behaving like a virgin. He's different character every time.

Rainbow_Dash said:
See now you only have three tags left to have in the search bar. ...

I'm saying that's how you tag it, not search for it.
You could search for it easily with fluttershy + either of those tags.

If we're allowing bat_pony then we need to invalid tag hybrid, because it no longer is needed, we can just create a fake name for any 2 mixed creatures we want.

We also then need to remove the alias from zombie_pony, oh and we need that apllejack_without_her_hat tag too, it saves a tag in the search bar, and futashy since it saves searching herm+fluttershy, and as gilda said we need shota and loli back so we don't need to search human+young+female/male that saves 2 tags.

Maybe I need to make a thread about these tags that we should have back in accordance with this new interpretation of the rules?

I'd be fine aliasing it to thestral, as that is the same thing apparently, so I will be doing that

Halite said:
I'm saying that's how you tag it, not search for it.
You could search for it easily with fluttershy + either of those tags.

If we're allowing bat_pony then we need to invalid tag hybrid, because it no longer is needed, we can just create a fake name for any 2 mixed creatures we want.

We also then need to remove the alias from zombie_pony, oh and we need that apllejack_without_her_hat tag too, it saves a tag in the search bar, and futashy since it saves searching herm+fluttershy, and as gilda said we need shota and loli back so we don't need to search human+young+female/male that saves 2 tags.

Maybe I need to make a thread about these tags that we should have back in accordance with this new interpretation of the rules?

This is a slippery slope. Since we did this one tag like this = we have to do them all like this. Certain tags will be handled on a case by case basis.

Rainbow_Dash said:
This is a slippery slope. Since we did this one tag like this = we have to do them all like this. Only MLP and Pokemon tags will be handled on a case by case basis.

There, fixed that for you.

But more seriously - it's a little too late to call "it's just one tag" excuse. Pinkamena, bat_pony, cutie_mark_crusaders, earth_pony, eeveelution and a lot more tags were created. And you guys announce that you are thinking of allowing even more stupid tags. You already started avalanche of bad tags, so don't pretend that we are making logical fallacy.
Asking for consistency in rules is not slippery slope.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
-

I thought you would at least be happy with this:

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
Come on guys, positive thinking. Maybe it was unaliased from invalid tag only to be aliased to Thestral

|
v

Rainbow_Dash said:
I'd be fine aliasing it to thestral, as that is the same thing apparently, so I will be doing that

Butterscotch said:
I thought you would at least be happy with this:

|
v

Of course I'm more happy with this tag than bad pony tag. But I'm not happy that it is implied by Rainbow that fandom tag which is used less than 100 times currently is more important than dividing young tag that has 21000 instances, was used long before fim existed, and will be used long after everyone forget about this show.
I'm also not happy that Rainbow was about to create tag which unlike thestral cannot by applied to any creatures outside the pony fandom. We didn't make pegasus_pony tag, we're using pegasus pony. Same for unicorn.

This tag, like earth pony, is not as bad like Pinkamena, but how it is introduced is just awful. BTW is flutterbat aliased, or not? Rainbow says "That is why the alias is denied", but Ippiki aliased it to invalid tag.

--
I edited a bit my post. I'm not really against thestral tag. It's bat_pony tag I'm against, and it's good thing that it was aliased. It's not good thing that there was intention to revive it.

post #420418

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
Of course I'm more happy with one bad pony tag than two bad pony tags. But I'm not happy that fandom is so arrogant that thinks that their tag which is used less than 100 times currently is more important than dividing young tag that has 21000 instances, was used long before fim existed, and will be used long after everyone forget about this show.

Which is why I'm such a stickler for pedantic consistancy with tags, so they can be used by everyone not just by people searching for arcane fandom aspects.

This tag, like earth pony, is not as bad like Pinkamena, but how it is introduced is just awful. BTW is flutterbat aliased, or not? Rainbow says "That is why the alias is denied", but Ippiki aliased it to invalid tag.

Excuse? Are you referring to Flutterbat, bat_pony, or Thestral here? The conversation has shifted a few times now, so.

Bat_pony and batpony (yes, there are TWO tags like that) both belong in the alias bin to Thestral if we're going to use it like that (for all bat-winged equines), which I have no problem with.

123easy said:
Excuse? Are you referring to Flutterbat, bat_pony, or Thestral here? The conversation has shifted a few times now, so.

Bat_pony and batpony (yes, there are TWO tags like that) both belong in the alias bin to Thestral if we're going to use it like that (for all bat-winged equines), which I have no problem with.

To make things clear.

Thestral - I'm okay with this.
Batpony - why it was unaliased even for few minutes?

Flutterbat - is it aliased or not? It is the only character tag mentioned here, so I assume that RD was talking about it here:

That is why the alias is denied, and we are going to take a look at breaking up a few other character tags as well

so I assume that RD is against it, but it is aliased by Ippiki. Unless we're aliasing flutterbat to invalid_tag, but we're keeping flutter_bat_(mlp) which is empty, but this doesn't sound logical.

I was talking about unaliasing batpony to invalid as that is super unhelpful. It will be aliased to that other tag, thestral so it serves some purpose as it's species tag

As for the flutterbat alias itself, I haven't made any decision on it yet but it will most likely be aliased away.

Now I'm getting tired of the rather impolite tone I'm getting from people here. When I said these were handled on a case by case basis, that does not mean that I am saying this is the only case, it means that tags like this will be handled individually depending on each ones benefits and cons. No matter what I end up doing, someone will be unhappy, and the tags won't be perfect.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
There, fixed that for you.

But more seriously - it's a little too late to call "it's just one tag" excuse. Pinkamena, bat_pony, cutie_mark_crusaders, earth_pony, eeveelution and a lot more tags were created. And you guys announce that you are thinking of allowing even more stupid tags. You already started avalanche of bad tags, so don't pretend that we are making logical fallacy.
Asking for consistency in rules is not slippery slope.

This kind of attitude stops right here. It does not help the discussion and is rude. State your points kindly. It is not a slippery slope to want consistency in rules, but it is a slippery slope to assume if we change one tag differently from what we normally do that we will change all of them.

Rainbow_Dash said:

Now I'm getting tired of the rather impolite tone I'm getting from people here. When I said these were handled on a case by case basis, that does not mean that I am saying this is the only case, it means that tags like this will be handled individually depending on each ones benefits and cons. No matter what I end up doing, someone will be unhappy, and the tags won't be perfect.

This kind of attitude stops right here. It does not help the discussion and is rude. State your points kindly. It is not a slippery slope to want consistency in rules, but it is a slippery slope to assume if we change one tag differently from what we normally do that we will change all of them.

*Polite voice* Dear Rainbow Dash, We have notice only certain mlp fandoms and pokemon are getting these crazy tags as of late. It seems to be ignoring tag what you see, and only certain fandoms are getting these tags. Some tags mind you which none of the ones defending cant even tell us why without having mixed answers which most ignore tag what you see and make very little sense. The slippery slope mentioned was allowing pinkamena as "another character" when all it is was pinkie_pie with straight_hair, now because of this the flood gate of bad tags have been open, ones implying just because a char wears glasses or is not having sex that they are a completely different character, which isnt consistent and doesnt follow the rules at all...yet thats only seeming to happen in the mlp images on this site, and a little with pokemon.

This is why people are mentioning this, because it breaks all logic and seems like favoritism. If we keep ignoring this, it will just get worse with tags and this site will end up like the one of the many e621 pony clone sites with horrible tagging.

I just wanted to mention this, because this is the reason why other users are doing the same.

Rainbow_Dash said:
This kind of attitude stops right here. It does not help the discussion and is rude. State your points kindly. It is not a slippery slope to want consistency in rules, but it is a slippery slope to assume if we change one tag differently from what we normally do that we will change all of them.

If I state my points kindly than they are either ignored, or are called bawwing by no one else but you. I find the fact how mine and some other users points are simply ignored also rude.

I don't assume that changing rules just to fit one tag implies that all tags will be changed though I really don't like making such an exceptions in the first place.

What I assume however is that tags that are much more popular, and used not only by certain fandom but by a whole userbase, are a little more important then bat_pony tag which is, in context of whole website, marginally used anyway.
People searching for fluttershy bat_wings would have no problem with getting their result right. Same goes for people searching for pinkie_pie straight_hair. pinkie_pie straight_hair -pinkamena_(mlp) gives four results from which three would be tagged by fandom as Pinkamena. Problem of false positives when searching for pinkie_pie straight_hair is non-existent.

Meanwhile searching for female young just in the first page gives several results that don't contain young_female AKA loli. There are 21000 of young pictures. I estimate over half of them contains either loli, or shota. (Let's assume that intersex young are neither shota nor loli.) Compare this number to 100 instances of batpony tag, or 1000 instances of pinkamena tag. Not to mention that loli tag definition is rather clear, at least comparing to pinkamena.

Moreover loli and shota are not the only tags like that. All <species>_<gender> tags that were suggested at least once are like that. There are dozens of tags when making exception from the rules (which I'm still against) makes much more
sense than in these pony tags that are used relatively by nobody. Are you surprised that I'm suggesting that you are biased towards fandom?

I don't like making long posts, so to quickly sum up.

I'm against making exceptions in ruling for a few tags that are admin's favorite. Everybody was like "WTF are you doing?" when Aurali went with plan to erase all genders. Now I and few other users are again like "WTF are you doing?"

I'm against multiple character tags, especially when there is no one clear definition how this tag should be used. By this point I'm really tempted to go clean pinkamena tag, so only pictures that fits wiki definition would stay. I'm predicting that it would mean deleting over half of instances of this tag.

I'm against using tags redundant to our search system. Search system is here for a reason. Few times it was said that system is not for making perfect search, but for narrowing it.

And I'm strongly against changing the rules just to please the fandom without any discussion with other users, and getting suggestions how it may affect other tags.

There are probably few more points I'd like to make, but if I continue I'm going to get 414 uri too long, so I'll leave it like that.

So...what if there wasn't a thestrial tag? What would have happened then? The alias was removed before that tag was even brought up.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
Weird, it's wiki for thestral - https://e621.net/wiki/show?title=thestral

I'm on firefox, but oddly enough every time I click that link it sends me here: http://us.yhs4.search.yahoo.com/yhs/errorhandler?hsimp=yhse-001&hspart=CND&type=AD8831CC69D5644CCA6F_s11_g_e&q=https://e621.net/wiki/show?hsimp=yhse-001&hspart=CND&type=AD8831CC69D5644CCA6F_s11_g_e&title=thestral not sure why. Guess my browser is just acting up again, ill try doing a scan and reinstalling it.

edit: Just tried https://e621.net/wiki?query=thestral and it seems to have nothing there

ippiki_ookami said:
So...what if there wasn't a thestrial tag? What would have happened then? The alias was removed before that tag was even brought up.

We should have just went with nuking the flutterbat tag along with pony_bat / ponybat. I say we should just use fluttershy + bat_wings as it does the same thing.

Wow, I've only been frequenting the forums a few weeks and already the constant mlp tag discussions are getting old. How do you people do it without going crazy?
on topic: I feel the thestral tag might not work on every post with a bat pony, especially if its more bat than pony.

Sollux said:
on topic: I feel the thestral tag might not work on every post with a bat pony, especially if its more bat than pony.

Seeing the way it's being used I think it'll work fine.

Sollux said:
... How do you people do it without going crazy? ...

We don't, but if we show how crazy it makes us, certain people accuse us of having a rude tone, and threaten punishment, instead of addressing our concerns.

ippiki_ookami said:
So...what if there wasn't a thestrial tag? What would have happened then? The alias was removed before that tag was even brought up.

Then we'd have tagged them as such? I came up with the suggestion without even knowing that it was being used by pony fandom already; It was the first thing that popped into mind of species of horse that have bat wings, and it's the only name one gets in google search (other individual horses are mentioned, but are not races/species, or are skeletal/undead in addition, etc). While the whole "Cannot be seen unless you've come to terms with death after witnessing it" bit doesn't apply, the physical details are quite spot on for a description. If someone described an image of fluttershy as a bat-pony hybrid, the first thing that'd pop into my mind would be Thestral, same with my roommate and a couple friends I actually asked in the middle of typing this post, so there's that.

Unless you meant to direct that at RD because of how subjectively tags are being treated lately and wanted to know how things would have gone in that direction if the tag itself didn't exist, in which case, sorry for trying to answer.

Sollux said:
Wow, I've only been frequenting the forums a few weeks and already the constant mlp tag discussions are getting old. How do you people do it without going crazy?
on topic: I feel the thestral tag might not work on every post with a bat pony, especially if its more bat than pony.

By being a pedant and actually enjoying these debates, for the most part. The ones that result in unsatisfactory non-answers are the worst, and honestly aren't usually this common- But then, usually it's because we aren't discussing fandom-specific tagging. Mostly it's been since the newest season of MLP started up that we've run back into the issue of the fandom tags inundating us again, so there's that (And I already left the site about two-three years ago ish *because* of the initial brony flood of the site, fyi, so sometimes even the best/worst of us need to go away for awhile to recouperate and recharge ;P)

Conker said:
I'm on firefox, but oddly enough every time I click that link it sends me here: http://us.yhs4.search.yahoo.com/yhs/errorhandler?hsimp=yhse-001&hspart=CND&type=AD8831CC69D5644CCA6F_s11_g_e&q=https://e621.net/wiki/show?hsimp=yhse-001&hspart=CND&type=AD8831CC69D5644CCA6F_s11_g_e&title=thestral not sure why. Guess my browser is just acting up again, ill try doing a scan and reinstalling it.

edit: Just tried https://e621.net/wiki?query=thestral and it seems to have nothing there

https://e621.net/wiki/show?title=thestral Does this work? It's in the tags list but doesn't have a defined wiki page here. We could probably just migrate it over from HP wiki with allowances for it being slightly altered.

We should have just went with nuking the flutterbat tag along with pony_bat / ponybat. I say we should just use fluttershy + bat_wings as it does the same thing.

When it comes to Fluttershy as a bat/pony hybrid, I personally agree... BUT because transformation has been defined under TWYS to only be used for cases where we can visually see they are transforming, then because we cannot see the previous non-hybrid form *and* there is a defined name for bat-winged horses (Thestrals), she should be tagged as such.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
If I state my points kindly than they are either ignored, or are called bawwing by no one else but you. I find the fact how mine and some other users points are simply ignored also rude.

On both sides of the fence here.

Gilda, you (and sometimes myself too unfortunately) get too hot under the collar and start attacking the people instead of just the argument. That never helps. This is why I asked you a while ago to turn it down, because it doesn't help anyone when you're not being level-headed, least of all you.

On the other hand, it seems if we don't kick up a fuss we just get steamrolled and ignored, even when we bring up counterarguments to points brought up, or bring up points in an argument that aren't even addressed by the other side. It sucks, and here's where I'm majorly guilty of falling into that same attack pattern (sorry), but I can't help but agree with you that if they actually addressed the concerns we raised up front then there wouldn''t be this much negativity and animosity about things.

I don't assume that changing rules just to fit one tag implies that all tags will be changed though I really don't like making such an exceptions in the first place.

The problem there is not that one tag change is going to lead to all tags changing, but that there now is an exception. Anyone trying to argue any additional exceptions in the same vein as the first will then use the first as an example to strengthen their argument, and claim favouritism if it doesn't go the way they want (And yes, this can go the other way, with those wanting the status quo to remain static and not expand saying, 'it's been this way forever, never change, it's worked so far'. For the record, that's not what I want, and I'm pretty sure that's not what most of us want; consistant usage of broader terms understandable by people that aren't in the know with the buzzwords of the fandom's community they come from). If (in my opinion) it enriches the site's tagging ability as a whole, I'm supportive of it (power_ponies and defending character identities of costumed heroes). If it isn't, I'm not (Pinkamena).

What I assume however is that tags that are much more popular, and used not only by certain fandom but by a whole userbase, are a little more important then bat_pony tag which is, in context of whole website, marginally used anyway.
People searching for fluttershy bat_wings would have no problem with getting their result right. Same goes for people searching for pinkie_pie straight_hair. pinkie_pie straight_hair -pinkamena_(mlp) gives four results from which three would be tagged by fandom as Pinkamena. Problem of false positives when searching for pinkie_pie straight_hair is non-existent.

Agreed.

Meanwhile searching for female young just in the first page gives several results that don't contain young_female AKA loli. There are 21000 of young pictures. I estimate over half of them contains either loli, or shota. (Let's assume that intersex young are neither shota nor loli.) Compare this number to 100 instances of batpony tag, or 1000 instances of pinkamena tag. Not to mention that loli tag definition is rather clear, at least comparing to pinkamena.

Q: Wasn't this change done because of US Law restrictions? I could have sworn that's why it went through. Otherwise, since we don't allow tagging of adjective_nouns, if loli is *only* young+female, which looking at some images that used to be tagged loli is how it was used, then I don't think it deserved to exist. If it was young+female+pettanko+cute, as the original term Lolita was derived for, then that would make more sense to me because it has a greater definition than just two tags.

Moreover loli and shota are not the only tags like that. All <species>_<gender> tags that were suggested at least once are like that. There are dozens of tags when making exception from the rules (which I'm still against) makes much more sense than in these pony tags that are used relatively by nobody. Are you surprised that I'm suggesting that you are biased towards fandom?

What's worse is that these tags don't actually provide any use outside the 'in' crowd of the fandom. If I didn't have a brony roommate I wouldn't have the foggiest what a 'flutterbat' was until I googled it, and has no use beyond specifically dealing with Fluttershy and her being a bit batty, which also goes directly against tagging what you see without requiring outside information with the sole exception of names of the characters (and they have to have a good reason to be nammed what they are; tagging an image of Sonic as Mario isn't gonna stick just because the artist said his name was Mario, or said that Mario got mind swapped with Sonic, if I'm not misremembering). Blah.

I'm against making exceptions in ruling for a few tags that are admin's favorite. Everybody was like "WTF are you doing?" when Aurali went with plan to erase all genders. Now I and few other users are again like "WTF are you doing?"

And it's not just me, either.

I'm against multiple character tags, especially when there is no one clear definition how this tag should be used. By this point I'm really tempted to go clean pinkamena tag, so only pictures that fits wiki definition would stay. I'm predicting that it would mean deleting over half of instances of this tag.

Are you against multiple character tags when it's a non-obvious separate character being tagged, as with fandom!Pinkamena? Or are you against ALL multple character tags even if, say, a character is wearing a Green Lantern costume? If the former, I agree. If the latter, we're at odds in that case. Costumed identities are invested as much with their own characterization visually and personality-wise that they are effectively another character separate from the one wearing the costume. And I doubt you'll ever have me disagree with that, no matter who wears the costume or where the costume comes from. :)

I'm against using tags redundant to our search system. Search system is here for a reason. Few times it was said that system is not for making perfect search, but for narrowing it, and I'm strongly against changing the rules just to please the fandom without any discussion with other users, and getting suggestions how it may affect other tags.

100% agreed. I've even given multiple examples in another thread (Cutie_mark_crusaders) about how with the current six tag limit is more than enough even if you are just searching for three tags and then any number of the three, to search down to a partial page or a page or two of images at the most. If all you could search down to was 50~ish pages because there were just that many images of them individually and together, then there would be a reasonable justification for having a tag specific for that form of usage, but even the understandable usage of the three of them, in any pairing, with the capes with the badges visible (which is what defines the "Cutie Mark Crusaders" as a club) that follows the same format we currently follow for any other grouping was rejected. It's vexing.

Rainbow_Dash said:
I was talking about unaliasing batpony to invalid as that is super unhelpful. It will be aliased to that other tag, thestral so it serves some purpose as it's species tag

How is it super unhelpful, exactly? There is no species of "bat pony" canonically, there was only a transformation into a bat-pony hybrid. It was still getting tagged pony, and MLP, and Fluttershy, so why was it so "super unhelpful"?

As for the flutterbat alias itself, I haven't made any decision on it yet but it will most likely be aliased away.

Wait, what? "...I haven't made..." Sorry, but since when do you make the decisions on your own? This sort of behaviour when it comes to ponies is why you get called out for bias, not because your username is Rainbow Dash.

When I said these were handled on a case by case basis, that does not mean that I am saying this is the only case, it means that tags like this will be handled individually depending on each ones benefits and cons. No matter what I end up doing, someone will be unhappy, and the tags won't be perfect.

We don't want them perfect, we want them consistant. TWYS is the primary rule we have been following for the past seven years, almost, now. Sure it wasn't as well-defined as it is now when it originated, and it has been changed up a little over time, but never without a great deal of discussion and for very good reasons (character names being, really, the only major change I can think of). Handling tags individually goes completely counter to all expectations and how everything has been handled in all previous occurances and is why there is such a stink risen about this.

It is not a slippery slope to want consistency in rules, but it is a slippery slope to assume if we change one tag differently from what we normally do that we will change all of them.

*Will* change? No. *Have an exception to cite* for change? Yes. We already use precedent in all but name when it comes to making changes like this, and it's an extremely worrying turn of events when it looks like once again the MLP fandom is going to overrun the rest of the furry fandom, and there are now three cases where it's looking that way (Pinkamena, trollestia, Flutterbat and bat_pony, if Thestral didn't exist). yes, there are many furries that are bronies too. That doesn't mean we all are, or even that most of us are.

Okay

So is fluttershy called flutterbat in the show?
if yes = allow tag and implicate fluttershy_(mlp) since it's canon
if no = alias to fluttershy_(mlp)

Is the species actually called thestricle or whatever in the show?
if yes = alias bat_pony to thesbian
if no = keep bat_pony aliased to invalid_tag or hybrid or something else relevant.

What about aliasing the forms of batpony to bat_wings?

Q: Wasn't this change done because of US Law restrictions? I could have sworn that's why it went through.

Check flag history. AFAIK character being underaged was never valid reason to delete pictures. Only tag was removed. Check forum #38123

Otherwise, since we don't allow tagging of adjective_nouns, if loli is *only* young+female, which looking at some images that used to be tagged loli is how it was used, then I don't think it deserved to exist.

I'm pretty sure that it was used like on, for example, gelbooru - as an equivalent of young female.

Are you against multiple character tags when it's a non-obvious separate character being tagged, as with fandom!Pinkamena?

I could have worded it better. I mean very similar fandom versions of same character. Like Pinkamena or Leoian.

ippiki_ookami said:
Okay

Is the species actually called thestricle or whatever in the show?
if yes = alias bat_pony to thesbian
if no = keep bat_pony aliased to invalid_tag or hybrid or something else relevant.

On this one though, it isn't called thestral in the show, but the way the tag is used here shows pretty much the same thing that Flutters was depicted as in the episode.

ippiki_ookami said:
Okay

So is fluttershy called flutterbat in the show?
if yes = allow tag and implicate fluttershy_(mlp) since it's canon
if no = alias to fluttershy_(mlp)

Is the species actually called thestricle or whatever in the show?
if yes = alias bat_pony to thesbian
if no = keep bat_pony aliased to invalid_tag or hybrid or something else relevant

Thestral is not the official name, no. It was suggested because it is the name for a mythological bat-winged horse species, and is already in use for similar images. *shrug*

"Fluttershy has turned into a... a Flutterbat!" might have been uttered once as a joke, but her name didn't actually change. She was referred to the entire time as Fluttershy whenever she was interacted with, and she responded to the name. So like you might call someone a joke name, like if I called Butterscotch Butterbutt because they had a big booty (No offense meant, just using your name as a easy example!).

ippiki_ookami said:
Okay

So is fluttershy called flutterbat in the show?
if yes = allow tag and implicate fluttershy_(mlp) since it's canon
if no = alias to fluttershy_(mlp)

Is the species actually called thestricle or whatever in the show?
if yes = alias bat_pony to thesbian
if no = keep bat_pony aliased to invalid_tag or hybrid or something else relevant.

Hm lets use that same logic with Pinkamena
Is Pinkie_pie called Pinkamena in the show? (no)
if no - alias to Pinkie_Pie

Is Pinkie_pie another species with straight_hair? (no)

So why is it we have this tag again?

Butterscotch said:
On this one though, it isn't called thestral in the show, but the way the tag is used here shows pretty much the same thing that Flutters was depicted as in the episode.

then we'll use bat pony hybrid, just like we do with all other hybrid characters on the site.

Conker said:
So why is it we have this [pinkamena] tag again?

presently because the conversation fizzled out without an official ruling

ippiki_ookami said:
Okay

So is fluttershy called flutterbat in the show?
if yes = allow tag and implicate

I think that it should be also required that she is recognizable as separate character in the canon. Not just because other character called her once like that to forcefully create meme.

Is the species actually called thestricle or whatever in the show?

http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Thestral
It is suggested to tag that kind of ponies like that not because tag was used in MLP, but because they fit (more or less) tag created in HP.

Now that I thought about it maybe this tag is bad - there are not thestrals on rule34.paheal.
If something exists there's rule34 of it. Therefore if there's no rule34 of it then it doesn't exist. Logic!

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
I think that it should be also required that she is recognizable as separate character in the canon. Not just because other character called her once like that to forcefully create meme.

http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Thestral
It is suggested to tag that kind of ponies like that not because tag was used in MLP, but because they fit (more or less) tag created in HP.

Now that I thought about it maybe this tag is bad - there are not thestrals on rule34.paheal.
If something exists there's rule34 of it. Therefore if there's no rule34 of it then it doesn't exist. Logic!

Not logic, since rule34 doesn't contian all images that use rule 34 of the internet. :P

ippiki_ookami said:
then we'll use bat pony hybrid, just like we do with all other hybrid characters on the site.
presently because the conversation fizzled out without an official ruling

'kay. And convo fizzled because admins refused to answer concerns and points raised either on their own merits or against the points they presented, so.

123easy said:
Not logic, since rule34 doesn't contian all images that use rule 34 of the internet. :P

I've used google search too, since if something isn't on google it doesn't exist. Google search for thestral rule34 gives only ponies. thestral porn gives nothing. Even thestral penis doesn't help. So I think that I can safely assume that thestrals don't exist.

123easy said:
'kay. And convo fizzled because admins refused to answer concerns and points raised either on their own merits or against the points they presented, so.

^passive aggressive kinda whining

ippiki_ookami said:
then we'll use bat pony hybrid, just like we do with all other hybrid characters on the site.
presently because the conversation fizzled out without an official ruling

So because there was no official ruling.....why is it users are getting booped or warned for removing the tag? ...and why is it some users are acting like its new law and even using allowing pinkamena as an excuse to allow other tags? If its not official, why hasnt it been nuked yet?

Conker said:
So because there was no official ruling.....why is it users are getting booped or warned for removing the tag? ...and why is it some users are acting like its new law and even using allowing pinkamena as an excuse to allow other tags? If its not official, why hasnt it been nuked yet?

because the moment an admin does, everyone will snap at them because there wasnt a consensus.

what do you think would happen if i just went and aliased pinkamena out right now? i guarantee it wouldnt be pretty

or on the flipside, made a ruling that the tag is allowed, end of discussion.

no matter how pretty we word our arguments or accompanying dialogs, there are gonna be a lot of pissed off people

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
Check flag history. AFAIK character being underaged was never valid reason to delete pictures. Only tag was removed. Check forum #38123

I'm pretty sure that it was used like on, for example, gelbooru - as an equivalent of young female.

Er, when did I say delete pictures? I just said that to my recollection they were changed because of legal concerns arising from not tagging images correctly (I remember there was something of the sort back when Arcturus still owned the site, regarding underage art? There was a big hooha about it at the time and so we were trying to be careful about it, I think it was?), though I could be remembering it wrong.

Going by your link, it looks like it was just to shut down adjective_noun-ing, treating it as just young_female rather than the Lolita youthful appearance that it was also used as/ young_male, which, tbh, I didn't see any difference from with Shota. Given that it was very shoddily tagged (THAT I do remember from the long debates that I've had about its poorly tagged existance before, since it was poorly tagged it was hard to accurately blacklist, though what to search to find them if the threads even still exist I couldn't say) I'm not really that sad to see it go, honestly.

I could have worded it better. I mean very similar fandom versions of same character. Like Pinkamena or Leoian.

Leoian is copying the character design, and "making his own" based on how she looks. So it looks similar (there are visual differences beyond breast enlargement as you can see with his art), but isn't the character. That's more defensible a position under TWYS, even before the character name exception. Sure it breaks copyright, but it doesn't break tagging, because comparing the two while there are similarities his character is visually distinct enough in style that you can tell it's not Flora, at least; though some still conflate his work with TwoKinds since he's ripping off Tom Fischbach with Project2nd.

ippiki_ookami said:
because the moment an admin does, everyone will snap at them because there wasnt a consensus.

what do you think would happen if i just went and aliased pinkamena out right now? i guarantee it wouldnt be pretty

or on the flipside, made a ruling that the tag is allowed, end of discussion.

no matter how pretty we word our arguments or accompanying dialogs, there are gonna be a lot of pissed off people

Given more users wanted it gone as it breaks tag what you see, and its not even called in the official show being a fan name, and because pinkie_pie + straight_hair gets the same results, we shouldnt have the tag to begin with. But looking back at that thread the ones supporting the tag couldnt even come up with a clear reason why, and when others brought up its flaws they ignored them.

It just seems like everything is against that tag and it shouldn't be used on this site. The longer it goes unchecked the more bad tags will flood the site. Besides, all arguments against the tag where left ignored, while arguments for it couldnt give us a clear distention for it. With that said, this shouldnt be that hard of a call to make to begin with.

Besides, bat_pony was unalised from invalid tag without any user discussion by Rainbowdash...so Ippiki it seems discussion isnt even required anymore for such changes.

ippiki_ookami said:
what do you think would happen if i just went and aliased pinkamena out right now? i guarantee it wouldnt be pretty

I didn't see many pissed off people when futashy was aliased to Fluttershy. There were no riots when molestia was aliased to Celestia. Removal of all crossgender ponies tags didn't hurt world's peace.
Judging by past experience nothing seriously bad would happen if we just aliased pinkamena away.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
I didn't see many pissed off people when futashy was aliased to Fluttershy. There were no riots when molestia was aliased to Celestia. Removal of all crossgender ponies tags didn't hurt world's peace.
Judging by past experience nothing seriously bad would happen if we just aliased pinkamena away.

were you not there for the CMC discussion