Topic: A tale of a dragon BUR

The bulk update request #12283 is pending approval.

create alias dragon_tail (1476) -> tail (1738739)

Reason: This has been requested a couple times, but as part of BURs with other more contentious aliases. I don't think invalidating this one in particular by itself should be that much of an issue, so it may be better to request it separately. There may just be a question of whether it should be aliased to tail, which could interfere with the autocomplete for dragon, or (optionally first) mass update to tail and then alias to dragon to keep the autocomplete clear. I'm open to changing it however people feel is best.

Alias it to tapering_tail, pretty much every dragon has that type of tail, and it won't interfere with autocomplete.

waydence said:
Alias it to tapering_tail, pretty much every dragon has that type of tail, and it won't interfere with autocomplete.

A number of them don't:
post #5843166 post #5841053 post #5812780
and more just in the last month.

watsit said:
A number of them don't:
post #5843166 post #5841053 post #5812780
and more just in the last month.

Weird examples, #2 and #3 are extremely obviously tapered, and #1 is off screen but plausible.
I found very few actual examples where this alias would lead to mistagging, and most of them are caused by one character: dragon_tail sash_lilac. post #2062643.
99% hit rate is good enough, I think.

waydence said:
Weird examples, #2 and #3 are extremely obviously tapered, and #1 is off screen but plausible.

2 and 3 have a spade and tuft at the end, creating an non-tapered shape (tapering is when something gradually reduces in size along its length, a bulging shape where it notably flares back out is by definition not tapered). 1 is off screen so we can't see it; it could just as likely be a spade_tail, tuft_tail, or anything else.

watsit said:
2 and 3 have a spade and tuft at the end, creating an non-tapered shape (tapering is when something gradually reduces in size along its length, a bulging shape where it notably flares back out is by definition not tapered). 1 is off screen so we can't see it; it could just as likely be a spade_tail, tuft_tail, or anything else.

They're still tapered. The tip thingy is a distinct part. Otherwise you'd need a separate tag for tails that taper but have a thingy at the tip, which I imagine most people don't care for (I certainly don't).

EDIT: clarified what I meant by "tip".

waydence said:
They're still tapered. The tip is a distinct part. Otherwise you'd need a separate tag for tails that taper but have a tip, which I imagine most people don't care for (I certainly don't).

The tip is as much part of the tail as the middle and base, there's no reason to ignore it. Almost all tails taper if you can ignore some part of it. A fox tail and wolf tail could be called a tapering tail. A canine penis could be called a tapering penis.

waydence said:
They're still tapered. The tip is a distinct part.

not considering the shape of the tail tip at all would be disastrous, it would end up applying to everything at all except for rabbits and bears

to be frank the end of the tail is actually more important than the length as 'to taper' specifically references a type of ending to something rather then just the overall shape.

In any case those searching "tapering tail" are almost certainly not expecting to find spaded tails(demons), tail maces(demons/ankylosaurus), organic tail rings(aradortd), tail tufts(eastern dragons) or bulging tail tips(mewtwo) in their searches and these are certainly features in meaningful amounts found on dragon tails.

watsit said:
The tip is as much part of the tail as the middle and base, there's no reason to ignore it. Almost all tails taper if you can ignore some part of it. A fox tail and wolf tail could be called a tapering tail. A canine penis could be called a tapering penis.

ryu_deacon said:
not considering the shape of the tail tip at all would be disastrous, it would end up applying to everything at all except for rabbits and bears

to be frank the end of the tail is actually more important than the length as 'to taper' specifically references a type of ending to something rather then just the overall shape.

In any case those searching "tapering tail" are almost certainly not expecting to find spaded tails(demons), tail maces(demons/ankylosaurus), organic tail rings(aradortd), tail tufts(eastern dragons) or bulging tail tips(mewtwo) in their searches and these are certainly features in meaningful amounts found on dragon tails.

Ok then, so what's the correct tag for tails that taper but have a thingy at the end, like tail_tuft, tail_spade etc?
And what's the tag that encompasses tails both types (with and without the thingy)?
I like tails that taper regardless if they have the thingy or not, and would like to be able to search by that (hopefully, eventually).

waydence said:
Ok then, so what's the correct tag for tails that taper but have a thingy at the end, like tail_tuft, tail_spade etc?

There isn't a tag for any kind of thing that's at the end of the tail, just as there isn't one for the middle or base of the tail.

waydence said:
And what's the tag that encompasses tails both types (with and without the thingy)?

thick_tail may cover some of it, since it typically indicates the tail being thicker at the base compared to the end.

waydence said:
Ok then, so what's the correct tag for tails that taper but have a thingy at the end, like tail_tuft, tail_spade etc?
And what's the tag that encompasses tails both types (with and without the thingy)?
I like tails that taper regardless if they have the thingy or not, and would like to be able to search by that (hopefully, eventually).

Isn't that just... nearly every tail? I guess not really, but it's certainly too common to be something that would be commonly tagged.

scth said:
Isn't that just... nearly every tail? I guess not really, but it's certainly too common to be something that would be commonly tagged.

Not really. And being "too common" is not a good argument. The tail tag was considered "too common" until recently. If it's useful, or people want it, it should be tagged.
Also, the most common tails on e6 are canine, feline, equine, and avian types. Scalie/kangaroo tails are a minority.

watsit said:
A number of them don't:
post #5843166 post #5841053 post #5812780
and more just in the last month.

Shouldn't the tag be invalidated instead, with the wiki advising to use tapered or spade tail? Aliasing seems too agressive of a solution.

fifteen said:
Shouldn't the tag be invalidated instead, with the wiki advising to use tapered or spade tail? Aliasing seems too agressive of a solution.

A disambiguation is used when there's multiple incompatible tags it could be. Aliasing to a tag that will be valid the vast majority of the time is preferred when there is one, as is the case here (see also dragon_penis being aliased to penis, rather than invalidated for ridged_penis or the other kinds of penises it can be, or the BUR to alias away dragon_wings, with the main question being whether is should be aliased to membranous_wings or wings). Disambiguation is more aggressive since it requires constant checkover and cleanup whenever it's used, where an alias like this just may not be as precise when the tagger isn't careful but still correct and good enough, requiring no additional work.