Posted under Tag Alias and Implication Suggestions
The bulk update request #11723 is pending approval.
create implication accidentally_straight (26) -> gay_to_straight (283)
create implication accidentally_gay (408) -> straight_to_gay (752)
Reason: The first tag involves a gay person doing something hetero. The second tag has a straight person doing something gay.
I think "straight-to-gay" implies a real change in sexual orientation while "accidentally gay" means you do an action that turns out to be homoerotic in an unintended way. Or I think the first implies there was intent from the straight while the second implies the opposite.
pookashifts said:
I think "straight-to-gay" implies a real change in sexual orientation while "accidentally gay" means you do an action that turns out to be homoerotic in an unintended way. Or I think the first implies there was intent from the straight while the second implies the opposite.
It doesn't necessarily mean a change in sexuality. For instance post #2778959 has the tag and the character doesn't enjoy what's happening to him.
Having gay sex doesn't make you gay from then on, especially if you didn't know it was when starting. A straight character can do something accidentally gay, and remain straight. Or in cases with mind_control/hypnosis, where it's not apparent the character will retain their altered attraction when no longer under the influence (some sexuality_change posts seem mistagged to me over this). accidentally_gay//accidentally_straight could also work for a "straight"/"gay" character unwittingly doing something "gay"/"straight" and realizing they're bi, making it straight_to_bi/gay_to_bi instead.
leafdapple said:
It doesn't necessarily mean a change in sexuality. For instance post #2778959 has the tag and the character doesn't enjoy what's happening to him.
I would say that's a mistag. "straight to gay" doesn't read like "straight character doing something gay", but rather, "straight character becomes gay", and the vice versa for gay to straight. "straight character doing something gay" and "straight character becomes gay" are rather different and I don't think should be conflated under one tag; a straight character can do something gay and remain straight (maybe they were forced into it, wanted to experiment, or didn't realize, and continues to not find attraction in the same sex afterward), while a "straight" character can "become gay" without having to do anything gay to realize it.
Updated
watsit said:
Having gay sex doesn't make you gay from then on, especially if you didn't know it was when starting. A straight character can do something accidentally gay, and remain straight. Or in cases with mind_control/hypnosis, where it's not apparent the character will retain their altered attraction when no longer under the influence (some sexuality_change posts seem mistagged to me over this). accidentally_gay//accidentally_straight could also work for a "straight"/"gay" character unwittingly doing something "gay"/"straight" and realizing they're bi, making it straight_to_bi/gay_to_bi instead.I would say that's a mistag. "straight to gay" doesn't read like "straight character doing something gay", but rather, "straight character becomes gay", and the vice versa for gay to straight. "straight character doing something gay" and "straight character becomes gay" are rather different and I don't think should be conflated under one tag; a straight character can do something gay and remain straight (maybe they were forced into it, wanted to experiment, or didn't realize, and continues to not find attraction in the same sex afterward), while a "straight" character can "become gay" without having to do anything gay to realize it.
The tags have been used to meaning "(ostensibly/hitherto) straight person does something gay" and vice versa. I can understand the argument that they're not well named, though. Still, I think that having a tag that doesn't necessarily imply a change in identity and doesn't assume that a person acting outside of their monosexual identity makes them a different monosexual identity would be useful, especially, I think, for someone (ostensibly/hitherto) gay doing something straight, which some people would probably want to blacklist.
leafdapple said:
The tags have been used to meaning "(ostensibly/hitherto) straight person does something gay" and vice versa. I can understand the argument that they're not well named, though. Still, I think that having a tag that doesn't necessarily imply a change in identity and doesn't assume that a person acting outside of their monosexual identity makes them a different monosexual identity would be useful, especially, I think, for someone (ostensibly/hitherto) gay doing something straight, which some people would probably want to blacklist.
What about straight acting gay and gay acting straight?
leafdapple said:
What about straight acting gay and gay acting straight?
Feels unnecessary. accidentally_gay and accidentally_straight already indicate a character doing something gay/straight unexpectedly without necessarily becoming gay/straight, but those tags just add the extra assertion that they're straight/gay. That means it couldn't be used for asexual or unknown/questioning or something else, and the distinction doesn't seem that relevant for tagging. The terms 'straight acting gay' and 'gay acting straight' can also be taken as a straight character behaving in a stereotypical gay manner (limp wrist, lisp, etc) or a gay character acting closeted (hiding pride indicators, pretending not to be with their partner, etc).
leafdapple said:
What about straight acting gay and gay acting straight?
dba_afish said:
I'm that tag is for characters denying the idea that the act that they're engaging in/about to engage in is "gay", it's not necessarily the same as these.
ohhh sorry
i thought it was another clone
watsit said:
Feels unnecessary. accidentally_gay and accidentally_straight already indicate a character doing something gay/straight unexpectedly without necessarily becoming gay/straight, but those tags just add the extra assertion that they're straight/gay. That means it couldn't be used for asexual or unknown/questioning or something else, and the distinction doesn't seem that relevant for tagging. The terms 'straight acting gay' and 'gay acting straight' can also be taken as a straight character behaving in a stereotypical gay manner (limp wrist, lisp, etc) or a gay character acting closeted (hiding pride indicators, pretending not to be with their partner, etc).
I'm trying to come up with tags that capture how straight to gay and gay to straight are used without necessarily implying a change in orientation. It might not be accidental.
leafdapple said:
I'm trying to come up with tags that capture how straight to gay and gay to straight are used without necessarily implying a change in orientation. It might not be accidental.
i think the accidentally tags are a good use
it doesn't assert that they're one or the other
just that the situation or act was gay or straight
leafdapple said:
I'm trying to come up with tags that capture how straight to gay and gay to straight are used without necessarily implying a change in orientation. It might not be accidental.
I think orientation_play can be used for that, combining it with male/female, male/male, female/female, or whatever orientation the pairing is that you want, which one of the characters isn't otherwise.
jhudson said:
i think the accidentally tags are a good use
it doesn't assert that they're one or the other
just that the situation or act was gay or straight
Someone can act out of their orientation on purpose, like in post #4719269
watsit said:
I think orientation_play can be used for that, combining it with male/female, male/male, female/female, or whatever orientation the pairing is that you want, which one of the characters isn't otherwise.
That doesn't entirely work with intersex tags, although a lot of things don't.
Going by the wiki's, this should be the case, but honestly, I think the meaning (& wiki) of the sexuality_to_sexuality tags should be restricted to actually changing orientation, or at least the implication of such.
jhudson said:
...it doesn't assert that they're one or the other
just that the situation or act was gay or straight
In this context, the word to inherently asserts a change in state from one sexuality to another. If you wanna argue for it's use in cases where the situation/act was stereotypically hetero (or gay), and become gay (or hetero) (e.g. the classic ''rough-housing to passionately watching your homie's eyes/lips''), I could see that, but I think applying it to cases where nothing & no one is turning from anything to anything else goes against the explicit meaning of the words.
If a man kisses another man because they thought they were a women, that doesn't automatically mean they changed from straight to gay, they just did something gay on accident. Ergo, accidentally_gay doesn't always mean straight_to_gay & vice versa.
I think leafdapple got it right here:
leafdapple said:
...I think that having a tag that doesn't necessarily imply a change in identity and doesn't assume that a person acting outside of their monosexual identity makes them a different monosexual identity would be useful...
...What about straight acting gay and gay acting straight?
Updated
