Topic: (MULTIPLE BURS) color_and_color tags

The bulk update request #8770 is pending approval.

create implication black_and_red (301) -> red_monochrome (71)
create implication black_and_orange (145) -> orange_monochrome (21)
create implication black_and_yellow (384) -> yellow_monochrome (28)
create implication black_and_green (168) -> green_monochrome (42)
create implication black_and_teal (5) -> teal_monochrome (18)
create implication black_and_purple (20) -> purple_monochrome (53)
create implication black_and_pink (51) -> pink_monochrome (78)

A collection of black_and_* tags

Reason: Black counts as a very dark shade of whatever color is present in the post. The artwork remains monochrome

The bulk update request #8771 is pending approval.

create implication red_and_white (1351) -> red_monochrome (71)
create implication orange_and_white (337) -> orange_monochrome (21)
create implication yellow_and_white (214) -> yellow_monochrome (28)
create implication green_and_white (709) -> green_monochrome (42)
create implication teal_and_white (6) -> teal_monochrome (18)
create implication blue_and_white (13912) -> blue_monochrome (125)
create implication purple_and_white (1319) -> purple_monochrome (53)
create implication pink_and_white (1065) -> pink_monochrome (78)

A collection of *_and_white tags.

Reason: White counts as a very pale tint of whatever color is present in the post. The artwork remains monochrome.

The bulk update request #8772 is pending approval.

A collection of grey_and_* tags

Reason:
These are aliases instead of implications because I don’t think grey + color is significant enough to be it’s own thing like black_and_* and *_and_white are.

Note: green_and_grey, blue_and_grey and purple_and_grey all have their own aliases.

The bulk update request #8773 is pending approval.

Reason: Lenghty!

The bulk update request #8777 is pending approval.

create alias black_and_red_and_orange (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_red_and_yellow (2) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_red_and_green (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_red_and_teal (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_red_and_blue (3) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_red_and_purple (1) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_red_and_pink (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)

A collection of black_and_red_and_* tags.

Reason: We don’t need them, they are lenghty, too specific, and not widespread enough in artwork to be their own thing.

The bulk update request #8778 is pending approval.

create alias black_and_orange_and_red (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_orange_and_yellow (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_orange_and_green (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_orange_and_teal (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_orange_and_blue (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_orange_and_purple (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_orange_and_pink (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)

Reason: A collection of black_and_orange_and_* tags.

The bulk update request #8779 is pending approval.

create alias black_and_yellow_and_red (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_yellow_and_orange (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_yellow_and_green (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_yellow_and_teal (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_yellow_and_blue (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_yellow_and_purple (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_yellow_and_pink (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)

Reason: A collection of black_and_yellow_and_* tags

The bulk update request #8780 is pending approval.

create alias black_and_green_and_red (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_green_and_orange (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_green_and_yellow (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_green_and_teal (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_green_and_blue (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_green_and_purple (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_green_and_pink (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)

Reason: A collection of black_and_green_and_* tags

The bulk update request #8781 is pending approval.

create alias black_and_teal_and_red (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_teal_and_orange (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_teal_and_yellow (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_teal_and_green (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_teal_and_blue (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_teal_and_purple (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_teal_and_pink (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)

Reason: black_and_teal_and_*

The bulk update request #8782 is pending approval.

create alias black_and_blue_and_red (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_blue_and_orange (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_blue_and_yellow (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_blue_and_green (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_blue_and_teal (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_blue_and_purple (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_blue_and_pink (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)

Reason: black_and_blue_and_*

The bulk update request #8783 is pending approval.

create alias black_and_purple_and_red (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_purple_and_orange (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_purple_and_yellow (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_purple_and_green (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_purple_and_teal (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_purple_and_blue (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)
create alias black_and_purple_and_pink (0) -> restricted_palette (11529)

Reason: black_and_purple_and_*

Any reason for the neutrals/downvotes?

spe said:
Any reason for the neutrals/downvotes?

I didn't vote on this because I noticed a good portion of posts in these tags are not monochromatic but are using them to describe colors on a character or piece of clothing or are using them on images that are mostly those colors, but aren't actually monochromatic. I didn't haven't an opinion on if this use was incorrect or not, so I didn't vote.

spe said:
Any reason for the neutrals/downvotes?

The BUR #8720 from topic #45262 about colored monochrome doesn’t have a lot of upvotes.
Maybe people aren’t sure about color monochrome tags?

regsmutt said:
[…] or are using them on images that are mostly those colors, but aren't actually monochromatic.

This is called spot color.
post #4668325

dimoretpinel said:
This is called spot color.
post #4668325

Not referring to that. I mean things that have more than spot color or are maybe fully colored with a heavy tint or lean towards a particular color.
post #3648341post #4390656

regsmutt said:
Not referring to that. I mean things that have more than spot color or are maybe fully colored with a heavy tint or lean towards a particular color.
post #3648341post #4390656

Ohhh, that’s what you meant! Sorry!

These should be tagged with the appropriate color theme tag (*_theme).

red_theme
orange_theme
yellow_theme
green_theme
teal_theme
blue_theme
purple_theme
pink_theme

Update:
I have painfully combed through every black_and_color tags, except black_and_blue because there’s too many posts with this tag and too much confusion around purple, blue or teal.

See:
black_and_* -black_and_blue -black_and_white -black_and_grey -black_and_white_and_*
or
~black_and_red ~black_and_orange ~black_and_yellow ~black_and_green ~black_and_teal -black_and_blue ~black_and_purple ~black_and_pink

These searches should only result in monochrome posts.

I’d really appreciate it if someone could check them up again to make sure I haven’t missed anything.

I’ll remove black_and_blue from the black and color BUR (BUR #8770) for the time being, so those implications can be passed while we go through the blue posts.

Well, it makes sense to me. I’ll leave it for another day or so to give people time to object before doing anything.

Side note: many of these tags also need to be moved to the meta category

The *_monochrome feel too close to *_theme.
Compare green monochrome to green theme, etc. The latter are already tagged at good frequency. What exactly do the *_monochrome tags offer that's not already covered by the existing tags?

genjar said:
The *_monochrome feel too close to *_theme.
Compare green monochrome to green theme, etc. The latter are already tagged at good frequency. What exactly do the *_monochrome tags offer that's not already covered by the existing tags?

I explained it here topic #45262

anicebee said:
Don't the _theme tags work well enough for this?

no
While there is some overlap between *_monochrome and *_theme posts, *theme are more of a restricted_color_palette thing and are not monochrome.

For example, these blue_theme posts do contain a lot of blue, but also many different non-blue hues, and these extra hues aren’t used as spot_color.
post #4693528 post #4835753

Blue_monochrome only has the blue hue, and rarely a spot_color.
post #4664995 post #4526212

*_theme tags may be adjacent, but not synonymous to *_monochrome.

Also, from the blue_theme wiki:

This tag is used when the color blue is one of the defining factors of the post.

Not to be confused with blue_and_white.

The same text is present in other color theme wikis.

Blue_and_white is as monochrome as black_and_white is.

I also personally think the monochrome tag is undertagged. Making pre-existing, used tags such as black_and_white_and_red imply monochrome through color monochrome tags is a clean, organised way to do this.

The bulk update request #8822 is pending approval.

change category black_and_orange (145) -> meta
change category black_and_yellow (384) -> meta
change category black_and_green (168) -> meta
change category black_and_teal (5) -> meta
change category black_and_blue (1211) -> meta
change category black_and_purple (20) -> meta
change category black_and_pink (51) -> meta
change category teal_and_white (6) -> meta

Reason: Meta-fying tags that should be.

Black_and_red is already a meta tag, but the other black_and_color tags aren’t.

All color_and_white tags are meta tags, except teal_and_white because it’s a new official color.

The bulk update request #8823 is pending approval.

change category black_and_white_and_red (524) -> general

Reason: De-meta-fying tags that shouldn’t have been made meta.

Black_and_white_and_red is a meta tag, but the meaning is the exact same as red_monochrome or simply monochrome.
I want to alias it to red_monochrome, and have red_monochrome imply monochrome, so I am not making it invalid.

The bulk update request #8824 is pending approval.

change category green_and_grey (3) -> general
change category blue_and_grey (49) -> general
change category purple_and_grey (25) -> general
remove alias gray_and_green (0) -> green_and_grey (3)
remove alias grey_and_green (0) -> green_and_grey (3)
remove alias gray_and_blue (0) -> blue_and_grey (49)
remove alias grey_and_blue (0) -> blue_and_grey (49)
remove alias gray_and_purple (0) -> purple_and_grey (25)
remove alias grey_and_purple (0) -> purple_and_grey (25)

Reason: Ending these tags’ special treatment to alias them away to a monochrome tag

For the category of color monochrome tags, please see BUR #8825 in topic #45262 please!

dimoretpinel said:
The bulk update request #8823 is pending approval.

change category black_and_white_and_red (524) -> general

Reason: De-meta-fying tags that shouldn’t have been made meta.

Black_and_white_and_red is a meta tag, but the meaning is the exact same as red_monochrome or simply monochrome.
I want to alias it to red_monochrome, and have red_monochrome imply monochrome, so I am not making it invalid.

You don't need to change the category of tags that you're already aliasing (plus you're planning on making its alias target meta)

dimoretpinel said:
*_theme tags may be adjacent, but not synonymous to *_monochrome.

Right, there's a minute difference. But I repeat the question: why are these *_monochrome tags needed? As far as I can see, these can already be searched for with *_and_yellow monochrome and other such combos. And the monochrome tags are already a mess, this is going to lead to more mistags via posts like post #4437571 post #3250797 getting tagged as 'yellow monochrome'.

Damn, mistags are very annoying. I did clean the black_and_color tags (except blue), so these aren’t a mess and ready to go.
I’ll need help for the blue tags.

I geniunely think more monochrome tags are needed. black and white, * and white, sepia and greyscale imply monochrome, but they aren’t the full scale of what monochrome artworks are.
I think it’s best to finish what was started.

Worst case, if people are misusing color_and_color tags so badly, maybe we can rename the tags to color_and_color_(monochromatic) or something.

Also:
post #4437571 that you showed as an example is tagged pink_and_yellow
post #4437571

I haven’t gotten around to these tags yet because I’m unsure if they should imply restricted_palette or be aliased to it like color_and_color_and_color. I thought we could discuss these once we were done with the more basic black_and_color and color_and_white.