CONTENT WARNING

The following discussion is about a homo-/transphobic fetish involving rape. Continue reading at your discretion.

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BURs CREATED

The first in the thread is here

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Currently the tag corrective_rape is used for posts involving one or more characters raping another in an attempt, successful or not, to 'correct' their homosexuality or transgenderism, similar to conversion therapy. Most often male/female 'correcting' lesbianism. I'm currently in the process of applying this tag to more relevant posts.

Was wondering if this tag should be applied to instances of 'correcting' misogyny/misandry, which is a common theme seen in whitekitten posts (see: post #644929).

..or maybe another tag/more specific tags should be created.
Instead a _correction prefix could be used, such as misogyny_correction, similar to the existing lesbian_correction tag. This tag could also be used for other instances of abuse or 'corrective action' (conversion therapy)

Reading this tag name, my first impression was that it described something more like rape_as_punishment.

oozeenthusiast said:
Reading this tag name, my first impression was that it described something more like rape_as_punishment.

Yeah i thought as much myself, which is why I proposed a different tag that in combination with tags like rape would come up with the same results

I honestly feel like this should be aliased to something like conversion_via_rape. "correction"/"corrective", is a pretty ambiguous term to be using for this, also just like, this seems like a pretty blacklistable topic.

also probably ought to have some sort of orientation_conversion umbrella tag.

oozeenthusiast said:
Reading this tag name, my first impression was that it described something more like rape_as_punishment.

Yeah, the tag name reminds me of the whole "needs correction" meme I see on twitter for when you have a "bratty" type character or sometimes just a young looking one.

dba_afish said:
I honestly feel like this should be aliased to something like conversion_via_rape. "correction"/"corrective", is a pretty ambiguous term to be using for this, also just like, this seems like a pretty blacklistable topic.

also probably ought to have some sort of orientation_conversion umbrella tag.

I like that idea, though I'm still unsure what the specific sexuality tags would be (like lesbian_correction or one for misandry). Any ideas?

I think 'conversion' would still be best for specific sexualities- lesbian_to_straight_conversion for example.

From topic #45390:

implication #64280 lesbian_correction -> orientation_play

dimoretpinel said:
[…]
Anyway, I’m unsure about this implication because there’s already straight_to_gay and the reverse gay_to_straight tags.
There’s two ways to interpret "gay" here, and either way, this implication is a bit wrong.

1) "Gay" as in "Homosexual":
In this case, lesbian correction should imply gay to straight instead.

2) "Gay" as in "men loving men":
In that case, lesbian correction should be renamed to mirror the straight to gay and gay to straight tags for consistency; we would get straight to lesbian and lesbian to straight instead.

The bulk update request #8804 is pending approval.

create alias corrective_rape (63) -> conversion_through_rape (0) # has blocking transitive relationships, cannot be applied through bur
create alias conversion_rape (0) -> conversion_through_rape (0)
create implication sexuality_conversion (0) -> orientation_play (1573)

Reason: Changing corrective_rape to conversion_through_rape, to use a less offensive term.

implies sexuality_conversion (made in following burs) to orientation_play

Following BURs will create the specific a-to-b_conversion tags and relative tags.

The bulk update request #8805 is pending approval.

Reason: *-to-*_conversion Sexuality BUR
Corrects typos in the tag (underscore -> hyphen, correction -> conversion)
Currently covers straight, male/male, and female/female sexualities. More can be added on request / in the future

The bulk update request #8806 is pending approval.

create alias trans-to-cis_correction (0) -> gender_transition (25)
create alias trans_to_cis_correction (0) -> gender_transition (25)
create alias trans_to_cis_conversion (0) -> gender_transition (25)
create alias trans-to-cis_conversion (0) -> gender_transition (25)
create alias cis-to-trans_correction (0) -> gender_transition (25)
create alias cis_to_trans_correction (0) -> gender_transition (25)
create alias cis_to_trans_conversion (0) -> gender_transition (25)
create alias cis-to-trans_conversion (0) -> gender_transition (25)
create alias trans_conversion (0) -> gender_transition (25)
create alias trans_correction (0) -> gender_transition (25)
create alias forced_transition (2) -> forced_gender_transition (0)
create alias detransition (5) -> gender_detransition (0)

Reason: Aliasing *-to-*_conversion gender tags to gender_transition

Edit: Added more related tags

The bulk update request #8807 is pending approval.

create alias gay_correction (0) -> gay-to-straight_conversion (0)
create alias gay_conversion (0) -> gay-to-straight_conversion (0)
create alias lesbian_conversion (0) -> lesbian-to-straight_conversion (0)

Reason: aliasing 'sexuality_correction' tags to 'x-to-x_sexuality_conversion' tags

Followups:

• alias lesbian_correction -> lesbian-to-straight_conversion - currently blocked by alias #33759

BUR #8804:
create alias corrective_rape (60) -> conversion_through_rape (0) # has blocking transitive relationships, cannot be applied through bur

Unsure of the BTR. Neither tag has any aliases or implications, just a request alias #33759, mentioned in the last BUR

Additionally, wondering if an umbrella tag should be created for this fetish.

Initial ideas:

• conversion_therapy (existing tag, but currently being used for posts depicting conversion through rape or post-conversion)
• conversion_play
• conversion_(fetish)

Currently conversion is disambiguated, since it could be used for conversion therapy, file conversions, etc. I've also seen it as an alternative to transformation.

The from_x_conversion and to_x_conversion seem a bit excessive, considering most only have one other thing to convert from. gay-to-lesbian doesn't seem possible under this setup, for instance, so from_gay_conversion and gay-to-straight_conversion would be identical. Same for trans-to-cis_conversion, from_trans_conversion, and to_cis_conversion; a post couldn't be one without being all three.

watsit said:
The from_x_conversion and to_x_conversion seem a bit excessive, considering most only have one other thing to convert from. gay-to-lesbian doesn't seem possible under this setup, for instance, so from_gay_conversion and gay-to-straight_conversion would be identical. Same for trans-to-cis_conversion, from_trans_conversion, and to_cis_conversion; a post couldn't be one without being all three.

Agree with this. Maybe forced_detransitioning and forced_transitioning would be better tag names for x_to_x_conversion, although I guess it wouldn't always be forced?

How about transitioning_sex + detransitioning_sex, or, to avoid "sex" here being interpreted as sexual intercourse, transitioning_gender + detransitioning_gender?

Then, either forced can be added afterwards, or we have a tag that implies both de/transitioning_sex/gender and forced.

pankino2002 said:
Agree with this. Maybe forced_detransitioning and forced_transitioning would be better tag names for x_to_x_conversion, although I guess it wouldn't always be forced?

That's a good point. Are these tags meant for non-con (or at least dub-con) situations, or can they be when it's apparently consenting too? Tag names like x_correction give an impression of force, something imposed on a character against their will by another character/external force, whereas x_conversion is more neutral, something that just happens to a character.

watsit said:
That's a good point. Are these tags meant for non-con (or at least dub-con) situations, or can they be when it's apparently consenting too? Tag names like x_correction give an impression of force, something imposed on a character against their will by another character/external force, whereas x_conversion is more neutral, something that just happens to a character.

Personally I'd consider consenting stuff to fit too. Even when the characters are like "I know I am broken and want to become a perfect fuckslave uwu" it has the same intent, same appeal, and the same themes people who want to avoid conversion stuff would find upsetting.

The bulk update request #8808 is pending approval.

remove alias accidental_gender_reassignment_surgery (0) -> accidental_gender-affirming_surgery (0)
remove alias accidental_sex_reassignment_surgery (0) -> accidental_gender-affirming_surgery (0)
create implication gender-affirming_surgery (18) -> gender_transition (25)

Reason: Implication for gender-affirming surgery -> gender_transition and alias for accidental version

Followup
alias accidental_gender-affirming_surgery -> forced_gender_transition alias accidental_gender_reassignment_surgery -> forced_gender_transition alias accidental_sex_reassignment_surgery -> forced_gender_transition imply forced_gender_transition -> gender_transition imply forced_gender_transition -> forced

watsit said:
The from_x_conversion and to_x_conversion seem a bit excessive, considering most only have one other thing to convert from. gay-to-lesbian doesn't seem possible under this setup, for instance, so from_gay_conversion and gay-to-straight_conversion would be identical. Same for trans-to-cis_conversion, from_trans_conversion, and to_cis_conversion; a post couldn't be one without being all three.

That makes sense, I've made those changes

pankino2002 said:
Agree with this. Maybe forced_detransitioning and forced_transitioning would be better tag names for x_to_x_conversion, although I guess it wouldn't always be forced?

dimoretpinel said:
How about transitioning_sex + detransitioning_sex, or, to avoid "sex" here being interpreted as sexual intercourse, transitioning_gender + detransitioning_gender?

Then, either forced can be added afterwards, or we have a tag that implies both de/transitioning_sex/gender and forced.

Dimoret's idea makes sense to me. Have a tag for general transitioning, and a separate one for forced that encapsulates the reverse as well. Though I've changed to gender_transition to be more in line with the standard phrase

I've also added BUR for an implication for the gender-affirming surgery tag and an alias for the 'accidental' version of that tag.
I think the forced_gender_transition tag will be better for that, since an accidental transition isn't exactly 'affirming', which was pointed out during the discussion where that tag came from.

The bulk update request #8817 is pending approval.

create implication htm_transition (0) -> itm_transition (0)
create implication htf_transition (0) -> itf_transition (0)
create implication htg_transition (0) -> hti_transition (0)
create implication hta_transition (0) -> hti_transition (0)
create implication htmh_transition (0) -> hti_transition (0)
create implication hti_transition (0) -> iti_transition (0)
create implication mhtm_transition (0) -> itm_transition (0)
create implication mhtf_transition (0) -> itf_transition (0)
create implication mhtg_transition (0) -> mhti_transition (0)
create implication mhta_transition (0) -> mhti_transition (0)
create implication mhth_transition (0) -> mhti_transition (0)
create implication mhti_transition (0) -> iti_transition (0)
create implication iti_transition (0) -> gender_transition (25)
create implication itm_transition (0) -> gender_transition (25)
create implication itf_transition (0) -> gender_transition (25)

Reason: a to b transition implying gender_transition - pt. 2 herm/maleherm

The bulk update request #8818 is pending approval.

Reason: a to b transition implying gender_transition

The bulk update request #8819 is pending approval.

create alias transition (35) -> transition_(disambiguation) (0)
change category transition_(disambiguation) (0) -> invalid

Reason: Tag could be used either for gender_transition, video transitions, or even comic transitions (see: post #4836726)
conversion was disambiguated for similar reasons - topic #32458

dirtyderg said:
Reason: a to b transition implying gender_transition - pt. 2 herm/maleherm

These are too close to transformation to my liking, and really easy to confuse for physical sex changes as opposed to gender identity changes (the latter being nearly if not impossible to tell in a TWYS context).

watsit said:
These are too close to transformation to my liking, and really easy to confuse for physical sex changes as opposed to gender identity changes (the latter being nearly if not impossible to tell in a TWYS context).

explicit mtf transition
post #4860938

explicit ftm transition
post #2754876

transition and detransition with surgery scars
post #4491561

dimoretpinel said:
explicit mtf transition
post #4860938

I'd call that mtg_transformation, not mtg_transition. Whether it's by magic, potions, serums, or pills, a character's visible sex changing is gender_transformation. The meaning of text is considered external information, so the mention of "surgeries" doesn't influence what general tags apply if you can't see it. A transformation is a transition from one state to another, leading people to use one tag when they mean the other given how similar the words are, and with people using TWYK/external information to separate a paranormal transformation from a trans character transitioning when they're otherwise visually identical, is what I mean by x_transition being too close to transformation and easy to confuse.

dimoretpinel said:
explicit ftm transition
post #2754876

transition and detransition with surgery scars
post #4491561

visibly trans, mastectomy scar, mammoplasty scar, and related tags would apply for those where you can see surgical scars. There's also before_and_after.

watsit said:
These are too close to transformation to my liking, and really easy to confuse for physical sex changes as opposed to gender identity changes (the latter being nearly if not impossible to tell in a TWYS context).

TWYS applying, the tag would be for visible physical changes through means of hormone replacement therapy and gender-affirming surgery, as well as transformation (see gender-affirming transformation).
But overall, transitions would mostly be shown under before_and_after and sequence posts for the 'standard' methods, such as the examples Dimoret gave.