The bulk update request #8056 has been rejected.

Reason: Ok, so we've had plenty of discussions about this topic before. Please see the linked threads for that. TLDR: Embrace and hug are synonyms and us attaching random other meanings we pulled out of thin air is confusing to both taggers and searchers. We can do better.

I'd like to propose this rework of the tree:

Hug is the umbrella tag for all characters with their limbs affectionately wrapped around another character or an object. Embrace aliases to it. We can flip this alias if desired! All subtags would be renamed accordingly, to embracing_*.
Hugging_another is for characters hugging other characters and implies hug.
Hugging_during_sex is for characters hugging while having sex, the replacement for what embrace was originally "supposed" to mean, according to the wiki. However due to embrace's real-world definition, it was not really tagged like this. It implies hugging_another.
Hugging_object is for characters hugging objects. It also implies hug.
Plushie/pillow/etc_hug imply hugging_object.

Cuddling is separate. It is for close body-to-body intimate contact while lying/reclining and not having sex. It is NOT inherently included under hug, due to images like these with no arm wrapping:
post #4303824 post #4254834 post #4248427
However, many cuddling images do contain arm wrapping and hugging_another can be added to those as well. (This is why I'm wondering if embrace may be a better name than hug, it feels a little better for those cuddling situations).

Related

topic #16144
topic #43022

After:

alias embrace -> hug
alias embracing -> hug
alias embraced -> hug
alias embracing_another -> hugging_another

Also approve: topic #39576

EDIT: The bulk update request #8056 (forum #404776) has been rejected by @scaliespe.

Why does the followup have embraced -> embrace? I presume that's a typo

I wonder if we should have an umbrella tag more general than hug which'll include hug, cuddling and others similar to hug but which don't always fall under it

snpthecat said:
Why does the followup have embraced -> embrace?

oops </3 thank you, fixing that

snpthecat said:
I wonder if we should have an umbrella tag more general than hug which'll include hug, cuddling and others similar to hug but which don't always fall under it

Just saw this - not a bad idea but I have no clue what we'd call it. also what others besides cuddling are similar?

I like embrace's more neutral tone. Fewer connotations. But I don't care very much if it goes away lol.

Having tags spell out what they're for is a lot better than having two seemingly similar tags for people to misuse because they didn't read the wiki and couldn't figure out the difference from existing tagging.

Interesting; I see 'embrace' as the more intimate of the two. To me friends will give each other a hug, while lovers will embrace each other.

Also, and I have no idea if this should matter or not, I'd wager the word 'hug' is better known among people for whom English is not their native language.

An embrace is a specific type of hug (a highly emotional hug). They are not synonyms. Not all hugs are embraces. Hug should be a position tag just like crossed_arms or thumbs_up. Embrace should be used for emotional/sexual hugs.

Even the dictionary you linked says hug simply means "to hold (something) tightly with the arms i.e.: 'She hugged her knees to her chest.'" (definition 1b)

From topic #16144

A hug is a position in which which one person puts one or both arms around the neck, back, or waist of another and holds them closely. If more than two people are involved, it may be referred to as a group hug.

Most of the time this is a form of endearment. However this is not always the case. In addition to a [sports] huddle, there is also the bear hug. Sometimes a bear hug is a sign of endearment

post #4485481 post #1056641,

and other times it is a grappling maneuver used to immobilize or take down an opponent.

post #1752083 post #2388397

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_hug

There also exists a side hug/half hug, which is also usually a form of endearment, but is not usually intimate enough to be considered an embrace:

post #3024237

Posting this separately since it's a completely different thought:

Disregarding the definition of hug itself:

hugging_during_sex shouldn't imply hugging_another because hugging an object is possible during sex. See pillow_hug sex

post #4777479

kyiiel said:
Posting this separately since it's a completely different thought:

Disregarding the definition of hug itself:

hugging_during_sex shouldn't imply hugging_another because hugging an object is possible during sex. See pillow_hug sex

post #4777479

Might be overthinking... I feel like it would be reasonable to state on the wiki that hugging_during_sex is only for characters hugging their sexual partners while having sex. I doubt most taggers would even think to tag hugging_during sex on pillow_hug images like that.

However, is it possible we don't need hugging_during_sex at all, and can just use hugging_another sex and hugging_another -sex? hug sex and hug -sex already seem to return like, 99% desired results.

The bulk update request #8113 is active.

remove alias embracing_another (3) -> embrace (14)
create alias hugging_during_sex (24) -> embracing_during_sex (470)
create implication embracing_during_sex (470) -> embrace (14)
create alias hugging_object (2530) -> embracing_object (3)
remove alias hugging_pillow (2063) -> pillow_hug (0)
remove implication pillow_hug (0) -> pillow (83688)
remove alias hugging_plushie (335) -> plushie_hug (0)
remove implication plushie_hug (0) -> plushie (20849)
remove implication plushie_hug (0) -> hug (56132)
remove alias hug_from_behind (0) -> hugging_from_behind (3810)
remove implication hugging_from_behind (3810) -> hug (56132)
remove implication group_hug (225) -> hug (56132)
remove alias hugging_penis (1963) -> penis_hug (0)
remove alias cock_hug (0) -> penis_hug (0)
remove implication penis_hug (0) -> penis (1581366)
remove implication penis_hug (0) -> hug (56132)
create implication embracing_balls (0) -> balls (1079848)
create alias butt_hug (0) -> embracing_butt (3)

Reason: Alternative BUR for separate voting - flipping all to embrace instead of hug. I think I personally lean toward embrace, but I don't feel too strongly about it either way.

This BUR does not take into account the idea of removing hugging/embracing_during_sex. If people like that idea, I'll remove it from both BURs.
Going with embracing_pillow/plushie/penis/etc. instead of *_embrace because I just feel like it sounds a little better and is more consistent. Of course this can be changed if desired. Or we could even keep *_hug for those just use embrace for the umbrella tags. Let me know and I can edit the BUR. Group hug is staying group hug though because nobody says "group embrace".

Blocked transitive: topic #39576

After:

imply embracing_another -> embrace
alias hugging_another -> embracing_another
alias hugging_pillow -> embracing_pillow
alias pillow_hug -> embracing_pillow
imply embracing_pillow -> pillow
imply embracing_pillow -> embracing_object
alias hugging_plushie -> embracing_plushie
alias plushie_hug -> embracing_plushie
imply embracing_plushie -> plushie
imply embracing_plushie -> embracing_object
alias hug_from_behind -> embracing_from_behind
alias hugging_from_behind -> embracing_from_behind
imply embracing_from_behind -> embracing_another
imply group_hug -> embracing_another
imply side_hug -> embracing_another
alias hugging_penis -> embracing_penis
alias cock_hug -> embracing_penis
alias penis_hug -> embracing_penis
imply embracing_penis -> embracing_another
imply embracing_penis -> penis
imply embracing_balls -> embracing_another
imply embracing_butt -> embracing_another

EDIT: The bulk update request #8113 (forum #405134) has failed: Error: Alias would modify other aliases or implications through transitive relationships. (create alias ball_hug -> embracing_balls)

EDIT: The bulk update request #8113 (forum #405134) has failed: Error: Antecedent tag must not be aliased to another tag (create implication butt_hug -> butt)

EDIT: The bulk update request #8113 (forum #405134) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #8113 (forum #405134) has failed: Error: Alias would modify other aliases or implications through transitive relationships. (create alias ball_hug -> embracing_balls)

The bulk update request #8113 (forum #405134) has failed: Error: Antecedent tag must not be aliased to another tag (create implication butt_hug -> butt)

The bulk update request #8113 (forum #405134) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #8114 is active.

Reason: On top of using their followup, i've added imply embracing_butt -> butt which didn't pass earlier because it was aimed at the wrong tag

The first ball_hug BTR was from topic #39576, as mentioned in @Wandering_Spaniel's BUR

I'll add
alias ball_hug -> embracing_balls
once it's gets rejected

EDIT: The bulk update request #8114 (forum #405139) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

wandering_spaniel said:

Stuff

The bulk update request #8056 has been rejected.

remove alias embracing (0) -> embrace (14)
remove alias embraced (0) -> embrace (14)
remove alias embracing_another (3) -> embrace (14)
create implication hugging_another (7939) -> hug (56132)
create implication hugging_during_sex (24) -> hugging_another (7939)
create implication hugging_during_sex (24) -> sex (1039782)
create implication hugging_object (2530) -> hug (56132)
create implication pillow_hug (0) -> hugging_object (2530)
create implication plushie_hug (0) -> hugging_object (2530)
create implication hugging_from_behind (3810) -> hugging_another (7939)
create implication group_hug (225) -> hugging_another (7939)
create implication penis_hug (0) -> hugging_another (7939)
create implication ball_hug (2) -> hugging_another (7939)
create implication ball_hug (2) -> balls (1079848)
create implication butt_hug (0) -> hugging_another (7939)
create implication butt_hug (0) -> butt (1037157)
remove implication plushie_hug (0) -> hug (56132)
remove implication hugging_from_behind (3810) -> hug (56132)
remove implication group_hug (225) -> hug (56132)
remove implication penis_hug (0) -> hug (56132)

Reason: Ok, so we've had plenty of discussions about this topic before. Please see the linked threads for that. TLDR: Embrace and hug are synonyms and us attaching random other meanings we pulled out of thin air is confusing to both taggers and searchers. We can do better.

I'd like to propose this rework of the tree:

Hug is the umbrella tag for all characters with their limbs affectionately wrapped around another character or an object. Embrace aliases to it. We can flip this alias if desired! All subtags would be renamed accordingly, to embracing_*.
Hugging_another is for characters hugging other characters and implies hug.
Hugging_during_sex is for characters hugging while having sex, the replacement for what embrace was originally "supposed" to mean, according to the wiki. However due to embrace's real-world definition, it was not really tagged like this. It implies hugging_another.
Hugging_object is for characters hugging objects. It also implies hug.
Plushie/pillow/etc_hug imply hugging_object.

Cuddling is separate. It is for close body-to-body intimate contact while lying/reclining and not having sex. It is NOT inherently included under hug, due to images like these with no arm wrapping:
post #4303824 post #4254834 post #4248427
However, many cuddling images do contain arm wrapping and hugging_another can be added to those as well. (This is why I'm wondering if embrace may be a better name than hug, it feels a little better for those cuddling situations).

Related

topic #16144
topic #43022

After:

alias embrace -> hug
alias embracing -> hug
alias embraced -> hug
alias embracing_another -> hugging_another

Also approve: topic #39576

This should probably be rejected, we've chosen the other path

Also I just noticed, why is embracing during sex implying embrace directly instead of embracing another? Also embracing another is gonna be pretty underpopulated unless there's a project to sort embrace into _another or _object

"Hug" works far better for tagging than "embrace"

• Hug is an entirely neutral and straight forward descriptive term
• Embrace carries romantic connotations or implies a particularly physically close hug, but the connotation isn't immediately clear to users
• Hug works better linguistically, "side embrace" or "group embrace" sound like mistranslated terms, same with "embracing pillow"

I don't think we really need an "embrace" tag at all, it's too easily misused and misunderstood.

maplebytes said:
"Hug" works far better for tagging than "embrace"

• Hug is an entirely neutral and straight forward descriptive term
• Embrace carries romantic connotations or implies a particularly physically close hug, but the connotation isn't immediately clear to users
• Hug works better linguistically, "side embrace" or "group embrace" sound like mistranslated terms, same with "embracing pillow"

I don't think we really need an "embrace" tag at all, it's too easily misused and misunderstood.

Agreed, I think this decision was hastily made, especially as the feedback on the first BUR is more positive.

pleaseletmein said:
Agreed, I think this decision was hastily made, especially as the feedback on the first BUR is more positive.

Yeah, definitely too early, and the first BUR has far more approval.

snpthecat said:
Also I just noticed, why is embracing during sex implying embrace directly instead of embracing another?

shit, I must've mistyped

snpthecat said:
Also embracing another is gonna be pretty underpopulated unless there's a project to sort embrace into _another or _object

I plan on populating it a bit!

The bulk update request #8115 is active.

remove implication embracing_during_sex (470) -> embrace (14)
create implication embracing_during_sex (470) -> embracing_another (3)

Reason: Fixing this part

EDIT: The bulk update request #8115 (forum #405151) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #8115 (forum #405151) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #8114 (forum #405139) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #8116 is active.

create implication embracing_object (3) -> embrace (14)

Reason: I hope this is the last missed one?? sorry bout that

EDIT: The bulk update request #8116 (forum #405154) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #8116 (forum #405154) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

wandering_spaniel said:

Reason: I hope this is the last missed one?? sorry bout that

Sorry to dash your hopes but
ball hug is still at large due to topic #39576
And so is hug, huh

Also we might want to have some implications from some of the positions (spoon position comes to mind) implying embracing during sex

The bulk update request #8118 has been rejected.

remove alias hugging_character (5) -> hug (56132)
remove alias hugs (0) -> hug (56132)
remove alias wholesome_hug (0) -> hug (56132)
remove alias hugging (0) -> hug (56132)

Reason: And now hug shall truly understand embrace's embrace

alias hugging_character -> embracing_another
alias hugs -> embrace
alias wholesome_hug -> embrace
alias hugging -> embrace

EDIT: The bulk update request #8118 (forum #405165) has been rejected by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #8120 has been rejected.

create alias ball_hug (2) -> embracing_balls (0)
create alias hugging_balls (125) -> embracing_balls (0)

Reason: cock, balls even...

EDIT: The bulk update request #8120 (forum #405171) has been rejected by @Rainbow_Dash.

wandering_spaniel said:
The bulk update request #8120 has been rejected.

create alias ball_hug (2) -> embracing_balls (0)
create alias hugging_balls (125) -> embracing_balls (0)

Reason: cock, balls even...

A very ballsy BUR

The only thing that really needed to be done was make embrace imply hug since it's a type of hug. I don't see why anything else needed changing.

kyiiel said:
The only thing that really needed to be done was make embrace imply hug since it's a type of hug. I don't see why anything else needed changing.

I don't know why all of the tags were switched over to "embrace/embracing" with so little consensus (...and with such awkward tag phrasing, I mean embracing_penis...?), or why we necessarily need an embrace tag.

maplebytes said:
I don't know why all of the tags were switched over to "embrace/embracing" with so little consensus (...and with such awkward tag phrasing, I mean embracing_penis...?), or why we necessarily need an embrace tag.

yeah, embracing_<noun> sounds very odd to me.

dba_afish said:
yeah, embracing_<noun> sounds very odd to me.

Additionally, a lot of the existing "hug" tags already had wiki pages, now they either have to be copied over, or rewritten to remove references to "hug" tags, and it's going to have to be clarified that embrace is supposed to carry a neutral connotation. I think this decision really ought to be reversed.

maplebytes said:
Additionally, a lot of the existing "hug" tags already had wiki pages, now they either have to be copied over, or rewritten to remove references to "hug" tags, and it's going to have to be clarified that embrace is supposed to carry a neutral connotation. I think this decision really ought to be reversed.

Will make a BUR to flip it back, but - what about arm_around_shoulder/arm_around_another? Those aren't really hugs... but would it make more sense to call them embraces? or are they totally separate?

wandering_spaniel said:
Will make a BUR to flip it back, but - what about arm_around_shoulder/arm_around_another? Those aren't really hugs... but would it make more sense to call them embraces? or are they totally separate?

Based on a lot of the images I'm seeing like

post #4347066 or post #4422901 or post #4422657

I think it's safe to not include those as hugs, and considering the line between a "hug" and "embrace" is fuzzy at best, they're definitely not embraces either, they're just their own thing.

maplebytes said:
Based on a lot of the images I'm seeing like

post #4347066 or post #4422901 or post #4422657

I think it's safe to not include those as hugs, and considering the line between a "hug" and "embrace" is fuzzy at best, they're definitely not embraces either, they're just their own thing.

Isn't this just side_hug?

maplebytes said:
Based on a lot of the images I'm seeing like

post #4347066 or post #4422901 or post #4422657

I think it's safe to not include those as hugs, and considering the line between a "hug" and "embrace" is fuzzy at best, they're definitely not embraces either, they're just their own thing.

Should we alias side_hug to arm_around_another perhaps, and not imply it to hug at all?

The bulk update request #8190 is active.

Reason: please vote if you prefer hug over embrace!
Also I've gone with hugging_* here instead of *_hug (for penis, pillow, plushie, etc) because I think it sounds slightly clearer and nicer... if that's a big problem please say so, I'll change it

I am leaving side_hug out of the followup. We can deal with that and arm_around_another in a separate thread to keep things slightly more organized. It is late at night for me right now, but I'm thinking perhaps we alias side_hug to arm_around_another, and then have arm_around_shoulders and arm_around_waist imply arm_around_another.
Side_hug only has 91 posts so I'll just remove hugging_another and hug real quick via tag script if this BUR goes through.

I'm also leaving hugging_during_sex out of the followup for now because I'm not sure it's really necessary, as I believe hugging_another sex would basically return all the same results with a very low false positive rate, and likewise you could filter it out with hugging_another -sex. You can see that in action right now with ~hug ~embrace sex and ~hug ~embrace -sex. We can decide the fate of hugging_during_sex (either add to the hug tree or alias away) after we figure out hug vs embrace.

alias embrace -> hug
alias embraced -> hug
alias embracing -> hug
alias embracing_another -> hugging_another
alias embracing_object -> hugging_object
imply hugging_another -> hug
imply hugging_object -> hug
alias embracing_balls -> hugging_balls
alias ball_hug -> hugging_balls
imply hugging_balls -> hugging_another
imply hugging_balls -> balls
alias embracing_from_behind -> hugging_from_behind
alias hug_from_behind -> hugging_from_behind
imply hugging_from_behind -> hugging_another
imply group_hug -> hugging_another
alias embracing_penis -> hugging_penis
alias cock_hug -> hugging_penis
alias penis_hug -> hugging_penis
imply hugging_penis -> hugging_another
imply hugging_penis -> penis
alias embracing_butt -> hugging_butt
alias butt_hug -> hugging_butt
imply hugging_butt -> hugging_another
imply hugging_butt -> butt
alias embracing_pillow -> hugging_pillow

alias pillow_hug -> hugging_pillow
imply hugging_pillow -> hugging_object
imply hugging_pillow -> pillow
alias embracing_plushie -> hugging_plushie
alias plushie_hug -> hugging_plushie
imply hugging_plushie -> hugging_object
imply hugging_plushie -> plushie

EDIT: The bulk update request #8190 (forum #405672) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #8191 is active.

remove alias pillow_hug (0) -> embracing_pillow (3)
remove implication embracing_pillow (3) -> pillow (83688)
remove implication embracing_plushie (2) -> embracing_object (3)
remove alias hugging_plushie (335) -> embracing_plushie (2)
remove alias plushie_hug (0) -> embracing_plushie (2)
remove implication embracing_plushie (2) -> plushie (20849)

Reason: continued

EDIT: The bulk update request #8191 (forum #405673) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

Bump, does everyone prefer hug to embrace then? Safe to flip the aliases?

The bulk update request #8118 (forum #405165) has been rejected by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #8120 (forum #405171) has been rejected by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #8190 (forum #405672) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #8191 (forum #405673) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #8440 is active.

Reason: Followup

EDIT: The bulk update request #8440 (forum #407553) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #8441 is active.

create alias pillow_hug (0) -> hugging_pillow (2063)
create implication hugging_pillow (2063) -> hugging_object (2530)
create implication hugging_pillow (2063) -> pillow (83688)
create alias embracing_plushie (2) -> hugging_plushie (335)
create alias plushie_hug (0) -> hugging_plushie (335)
create implication hugging_plushie (335) -> hugging_object (2530)
create implication hugging_plushie (335) -> plushie (20849)

Reason: Followup

EDIT: The bulk update request #8441 (forum #407554) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #8440 (forum #407553) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #8441 (forum #407554) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #8056 (forum #404776) has been rejected by @scaliespe.