I noticed today that people are tagging 3D model artists by creating new character tags for characters from Helluva Boss and FNAF and adding _(3DModeller) on the end. Examples: loona_(aeridiccore) foxy_(psychojohn2) toy_chica_(psychojohn2)

My problem with this is that it really clutters the character tags on 3D model posts, especially when there's multiple characters post #1337981 post #2794227 post #2711051

It also clutters the search system especially for certain characters, loona_(helluva_boss) is a particularilly good example of this because there's literally over 30 different tags for her

I found a few old forum posts talking about this, one from the person who I think started this trend and their reasoning behind this was they wanted a way blacklist certain 3D modellers and while I think that's valid to want a way to search of blacklist certain modellers this just ain't it and makes it much harder to do those things

Really the best solution here is to either tag modellers under artist, copyright or meta and given in the past people have brought up concerns about clogging up artist tags with art they didn't make I think the best solution is either copyright or meta

satanicwolfluna said:
I noticed today that people are tagging 3D model artists by creating new character tags for characters from Helluva Boss and FNAF and adding _(3DModeller) on the end. Examples: loona_(aeridiccore) foxy_(psychojohn2) toy_chica_(psychojohn2)

My problem with this is that it really clutters the character tags on 3D model posts, especially when there's multiple characters post #1337981 post #2794227 post #2711051

It also clutters the search system especially for certain characters, loona_(helluva_boss) is a particularilly good example of this because there's literally over 30 different tags for her

Made worse when the name is ambiguous. Who is loona_(aeridiccore)? Does aeridiccore have a character name Loona, or is it aeridiccore's model of Loona, and in the latter case, which loona? It breaks the disambiguating suffix, so we can no longer know who the tag is referring to. It also manages to work around invalidations, like vaporunny being aliased to hybrid since we don't tag random hybrids, but make a model and you can tag it again. In the case of species, this also creates ambiguity, since it's no longer clear whether vaporunny_(follygee) is some (unnamed) Vaporunny character created by follygee, or if it's follygee's model someone's using for their own named Vaporunny character, or if it's just a generic vaporeon+lopunny hybrid but in 3D.

satanicwolfluna said:
I found a few old forum posts talking about this, one from the person who I think started this trend and their reasoning behind this was they wanted a way blacklist certain 3D modellers and while I think that's valid to want a way to search of blacklist certain modellers this just ain't it and makes it much harder to do those things

Really the best solution here is to either tag modellers under artist, copyright or meta and given in the past people have brought up concerns about clogging up artist tags with art they didn't make I think the best solution is either copyright or meta

People have already been tagging modelers under copyright, see warframe_machine. That's a better option to have one tag for a creator's modelling work, than making several new individual character tags for different models of someone else's character.

watsit said:

People have already been tagging modelers under copyright, see warframe_machine. That's a better option to have one tag for a creator's modelling work, than making several new individual character tags for different models of someone else's character.

warframe_machine is empty, did you mean warfare_machine

snpthecat said:
warframe_machine is empty, did you mean warfare_machine

Yes, sorry. Was confusing their name with Warframe.

watsit said:
Made worse when the name is ambiguous. Who is loona_(aeridiccore)? Does aeridiccore have a character name Loona, or is it aeridiccore's model of Loona, and in the latter case, which loona? It breaks the disambiguating suffix, so we can no longer know who the tag is referring to.

Luckily here every single post in the tags I linked are both tagged with a model tag and Loona_(Helluva_Boss) and honestly even if they were tagged with the original character, if it looks like Loona, and is called Loona, it's Loona. IDGAF if the model has slightly different hair or minor fur pattern/color differences it's still objectively to 99.999% of people the same character

watsit said:
People have already been tagging modelers under copyright, see warframe_machine. That's a better option to have one tag for a creator's modelling work, than making several new individual character tags for different models of someone else's character.

How should the tag be formatted, because as good of an example warfare_machine is for how to handle search for model creator, that tag is formatted terribly. Like it's confusing to have the only distraction between two tags being a space when on a surface level they seem to be referring to the same thing.

Like I think throwing a _(3DModeller) or _(3DModels) on the end would make the most sense to differentiate it

satanicwolfluna said:

How should the tag be formatted, because as good of an example warfare_machine is for how to handle search for model creator, that tag is formatted terribly. Like it's confusing to have the only distraction between two tags being a space when on a surface level they seem to be referring to the same thing.

Like I think throwing a _(3DModeller) or _(3DModels) on the end would make the most sense to differentiate it

Either that or just _(modeller) . For Petruz's models we have petruz_(copyright) and it at least works better differentiating the artist's work and the models they created, but I don't know if that's the best solution. (Personally, I would be for _(3dmodeller) or just _(modeller).)

Going forward we will likely use BURs to get rid of the character_(modeller) tags. Would it be best to utilize mass updates for that instead of aliases? Leaves open the option for the artist to have a character, who happens to have the same name in the future.

As someone, who was involved in the FNAF models BUR I also want to add that currently all models that have the *_(psychojohn2) tag are labelled incorrectly. The models actually belong to disembowell, but with earlier discussions about models being abandoned before reaching a satisfactory conclusion we never got around to fix that issue.

demonthedarkhound said:
Either that or just _(modeller) . For Petruz's models we have petruz_(copyright) and it at least works better differentiating the artist's work and the models they created, but I don't know if that's the best solution. (Personally, I would be for _(3dmodeller) or just _(modeller).)

Going forward we will likely use BURs to get rid of the character_(modeller) tags. Would it be best to utilize mass updates for that instead of aliases? Leaves open the option for the artist to have a character, who happens to have the same name in the future.

As someone, who was involved in the FNAF models BUR I also want to add that currently all models that have the *_(psychojohn2) tag are labelled incorrectly. The models actually belong to disembowell, but with earlier discussions about models being abandoned before reaching a satisfactory conclusion we never got around to fix that issue.

I think _modeller is a good solution.

I do think certain models could be named, but that's because they're used generically more often than as a specific character. The Dogmeat model from Fallout 4 comes to mind- people looking for art of the character probably don't care about the heaps of animations and images of the model being used as just a dog.

demonthedarkhound said:
Going forward we will likely use BURs to get rid of the character_(modeller) tags. Would it be best to utilize mass updates for that instead of aliases? Leaves open the option for the artist to have a character, who happens to have the same name in the future.

I was planning on doing a BUR and yeah not aliasing them would be preferable for a few reasons but mainly for the one you said above and because aliasing them would still clog up the search suggestion box

MY plan was to submit a BUR and update the tags and then set them to invalid so hopefully people know enough to not use them for tagging models

regsmutt said:
I do think certain models could be named, but that's because they're used generically more often than as a specific character.

Models made by Petruz are a pretty general example of that

I hope that we keep around tags for 3D models. One of my past tagging projects was to tag avali 3D models: Da'vali, Kita'vali, Seeker Avali, Rosavali, Nexa'vali, Natvali, Javali.

still really wish we could just tag modelers as artists since they did a large portion of the work for a piece. They are visual artists, they did the sculpting and rigging, that's a huge portion of the final visuals. Makes no sense to me that they aren't considered artists who worked on the image

wandering_spaniel said:
still really wish we could just tag modelers as artists since they did a large portion of the work for a piece. They are visual artists, they did the sculpting and rigging, that's a huge portion of the final visuals. Makes no sense to me that they aren't considered artists who worked on the image

The compromise I like best is if there's their model in the image, it'll be tagged [name]_(modeller) with it in the artist category

aaronfranke said:
I hope that we keep around tags for 3D models. One of my past tagging projects was to tag avali 3D models: Da'vali, Kita'vali, Seeker Avali, Rosavali, Nexa'vali, Natvali, Javali.

To me those ones are fine because they're for original characters, my problem is with FNAF and Helluva Boss characters and other popular characters

wandering_spaniel said:
still really wish we could just tag modelers as artists since they did a large portion of the work for a piece. They are visual artists, they did the sculpting and rigging, that's a huge portion of the final visuals. Makes no sense to me that they aren't considered artists who worked on the image

I honestly do agree, but, it's a compromise to get a worse situation dealt with

snpthecat said:
The compromise I like best is if there's their model in the image, it'll be tagged [name]_(modeller) with it in the artist category

atleast creating copyright tags for the model artists will allow for that to potentially be done

The bulk update request #7527 is pending approval.

Reason: Get rid of duplicate character tags that are being used to tag 3D Model artists, both to declutter tags on posts and searches and to make it easier to search/blacklist and 3D Model artist's work

regsmutt said:
I do think certain models could be named, but that's because they're used generically more often than as a specific character. The Dogmeat model from Fallout 4 comes to mind- people looking for art of the character probably don't care about the heaps of animations and images of the model being used as just a dog.

That's honestly just as bad. It still gives the impression it's a particular character when it's not, making it difficult to know if it's intended to be a particular character or not. Even models that are largely used generically are sometimes used for specific characters, and the image's context isn't always brought over from the source to know who/what it's intended to be. That makes tagging such things difficult if it sometimes-is and sometimes-isn't, with the same model being tagged differently in different images. It's best to just tag the modeler, and tag the specific character they're meant to represent in a given image if known. If it's used as just a generic wolf character, it doesn't get tagged just like all the other generic wolf characters on the site, even if there's visual similarities across images.

satanicwolfluna said:
The bulk update request #7527 is pending approval.

change category furromantic_(modeller) (200) -> copyright # missing
mass update loona_(furromantic) -> furromantic_(modeller)
mass update diane_foxington_(furromantic) -> furromantic_(modeller)
mass update wanda_(furromantic) -> furromantic_(modeller)
mass update scp-1471-a_(furromantic) -> furromantic_(modeller)
mass update crusch_lulu_(furromantic) -> furromantic_(modeller)
mass update waverly_(furromantic) -> furromantic_(modeller)
mass update auroth_(furromantic) -> furromantic_(modeller)
mass update tasque_(furromantic) -> furromantic_(modeller)
mass update shira_(furromantic) -> furromantic_(modeller)
change category loona_(furromantic) (86) -> invalid
change category diane_foxington_(furromantic) (58) -> invalid
change category wanda_(furromantic) (19) -> invalid
change category scp-1471-a_(furromantic) (25) -> invalid
change category crusch_lulu_(furromantic) (25) -> invalid
change category waverly_(furromantic) (8) -> invalid
change category auroth_(furromantic) (7) -> invalid
change category tasque_(furromantic) (4) -> invalid
change category shira_(furromantic) (0) -> invalid
change category carbiid3_(modeller) (1) -> copyright # missing
mass update loona_(carbiid3) -> carbiid3_(modeller)
change category loona_(carbiid3) (118) -> invalid

Reason: Get rid of duplicate character tags that are being used to tag 3D Model artists, both to declutter tags on posts and searches and to make it easier to search/blacklist and 3D Model artist's work

Believe it should be spelled modeler

nimphia said:
Believe it should be spelled modeler

Slowly converting the website to the UK, like with grey over gray

watsit said:
That's honestly just as bad. It still gives the impression it's a particular character when it's not, making it difficult to know if it's intended to be a particular character or not. Even models that are largely used generically are sometimes used for specific characters, and the image's context isn't always brought over from the source to know who/what it's intended to be. That makes tagging such things difficult if it sometimes-is and sometimes-isn't, with the same model being tagged differently in different images. It's best to just tag the modeler, and tag the specific character they're meant to represent in a given image if known. If it's used as just a generic wolf character, it doesn't get tagged just like all the other generic wolf characters on the site, even if there's visual similarities across images.

This would be for situations where the modeler isn't known like dogmeat_(model) or skyrim_werewolf_(model). Though maybe having a tag like fallout_4_model would be better?

snpthecat said:
Slowly converting the website to the UK, like with grey over gray

Is that a UK thing? I had no idea, tbh.