The tag alias #65736 pussy_juice -> vaginal_fluids has been approved.

Reason: Follow-up to https://e621.net/bulk_update_requests/6286

EDIT: The tag alias pussy_juice -> vaginal_fluids (forum #387954) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

This has a ton of implicatives, holy shit.

why not vagina_juice?

hjfduitloxtrds said:
why not vagina_juice?

Because "juice" sounds childish and gross :P and it doesn't match our other more serious tag names

cloudpie said:
Because "juice" sounds childish and gross :P and it doesn't match our other more serious tag names

It would be improvement over current tag pussy_juice. Then can be standardized. eg. vagina_juice, penis_juice, anus_juice etc.

cloudpie said:
Because "juice" sounds childish and gross :P and it doesn't match our other more serious tag names

^ this. We should rename anal_juice and cloaca_juice as well.

Meh, I don't care if 'juice' sounds gross, but it needs to be predictable and aliased for those that assumed the other words. So you can have a BUR for *_juice as well, after this one.
One little gotcha: Fluid doesn't imply just liquids, although that's getting very technical.
"Any substance can occur in any phase." Tell that to helium isotopes, haha. TBF, this is the first result I got for "fluid gas definition included", and it's aimed at children.

I guess they allowed for compressing the helium to 100 atmospheres or the like.

hjfduitloxtrds said:
It would be improvement over current tag pussy_juice. Then can be standardized. eg. vagina_juice, penis_juice, anus_juice etc.

Uh, penis juice? Do you mean precum? Lmao

I think precum is a fine name for now, if we want to be more formal about it we can rename it to pre-ejaculate (such as if we ever change cum to semen).

Cloacal_fluids and anal_fluids sound fine to me as I don't think there's any real word for those, especially since anal juice doesn't exist in real life.

Technically the real term for what we call pussy juice is vaginal discharge, but that covers all kinds of discharge, not just the arousal kind, and so may be confusing. When I was looking it up I saw various terms for specifically the arousal kind of discharge, including arousal fluid and vaginal lubrication, so there's no one single word for it as far as I know. Thus vaginal_fluids is a fine tag name imo.

hjfduitloxtrds said:
It would be improvement over current tag pussy_juice. Then can be standardized. eg. vagina_juice, penis_juice, anus_juice etc.

At first, I thought you were joking about anus_juice, but apparently it is a real tag.
Should be aliased to ambiguous_fluids in my opinion, since ass_juice is already aliased to it. However, I can see arguments being presented before on topic #24787.

i ask again, shouldn't we be doing this in bulks/in one thread, i.e this one ?

doing it in single aliases feels very messy

benjiboyo said:
i ask again, shouldn't we be doing this in bulks/in one thread, i.e this one ?

doing it in single aliases feels very messy

Well it's much less effort than unaliasing, unimplying from and unimplying to all the other tags involved with it. You could do that in the thread if you'd prefer.

benjiboyo said:
i ask again, shouldn't we be doing this in bulks/in one thread, i.e this one ?

doing it in single aliases feels very messy

It’s actually less messy:

cinder said (in topic #42139):
If you do a single alias (ex. pussy -> vulva, assuming that a reverse alias is removed), you don't need to remove all existing aliases and implications. They'll just get updated automatically.
Can't be done with a BUR, though. It specifically needs to be an alias request.

All of the implicatives of pussy juice (like Rainbow Dash said, there’s a LOT) will automatically become implicatives of vaginal fluids.

benjiboyo said:
i ask again, shouldn't we be doing this in bulks/in one thread, i.e this one ?

doing it in single aliases feels very messy

See alias #65736. All those listed aliases and implications would have to be removed and then redone manually with BURs (it'd take about 4 BURs to change them all, given the 25-entry limit). A normal non-BUR alias request like this will do it automatically.

there really is no unambiguous term for vaginal_fluids that could be used instead? Just calling it vaginal fluid seems vague.

The tag alias pussy_juice -> vaginal_fluids (forum #387954) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

🎉

Noooo, not pussy_juice! My dearest friend...

Shouldn't cum be changed to semenas well to be fair?

bill_furray said:
Shouldn't cum be changed to semenas well to be fair?

I don't see what we gain from that

bill_furray said:
Shouldn't cum be changed to semenas well to be fair?

I also would prefer semen

donovan_dmc said:
I don't see what we gain from that

Aren't we aiming to move from slang terms to real terms when possible? Semen is what we mean by cum. Sperm_cell is its own separate tag

cloudpie said:
Aren't we aiming to move from slang terms to real terms when possible? Semen is what we mean by cum. Sperm_cell is its own separate tag

You and a subset of users seem to be hellbent on getting rid of any slang. Yet again, what do we actually gain from that change. People know what cum is. Cum is what they're going to use, and cum is what they will expect. They aren't expecting something like semen. Just the same that they'd be expecting balls, and not testicles. There's no reason to upend those tags. I don't get why you want to, even if they are technically slang.

cloudpie said:
I also would prefer semen

Aren't we aiming to move from slang terms to real terms when possible? Semen is what we mean by cum. Sperm_cell is its own separate tag

I don't think removing slang terms in tagnames is really a sensible goal, the goal should be to have the tag names clear and concise first and foremost, and then after that try to make it so that the tags are non-offensive. those should really be the only two goals.

also, with the way we use cum as a term in tags (what with unusual_cum and stuff) I think it makes more sense to keep it. it'd kind of be like changing lactating to breast_milk or something.

if we were to change it the most accurate term would be like ejaculate rather than semen, which I dunno, seems kinda pointless when it dosn't seem bother anyone

By their very nature, slang terms are often vague and amorphous compared to medical or scientific terms. If by "cum" we mean only "semen", then by calling it semen we reduce the potential for inexperienced taggers to, for example, tag it instead of or in addition to our shiny new "vaginal fluids" tag, on the basis that, hey, it's girlcum, right?

vulpes_artifex said:
By their very nature, slang terms are often vague and amorphous compared to medical or scientific terms. If by "cum" we mean only "semen", then by calling it semen we reduce the potential for inexperienced taggers to, for example, tag it instead of or in addition to our shiny new "vaginal fluids" tag, on the basis that, hey, it's girlcum, right?

This is my thought, yeah. Semen is a less ambiguous word. Unusual_cum is a fair point as well though

The possibilities of clearing up ambiguities from tagging goes out the window when it's aliased right back to whatever new term is chosen

vulpes_artifex said:
By their very nature, slang terms are often vague and amorphous compared to medical or scientific terms.

That falls apart when you consider the affected tags. semenshot or ejaculateshot isn't what people expect to see or use for cumshot, for example (or scrotums_touching or testicles_touching instead of balls_touching). People are used to using terms like cum and balls, and that's what they're likely to tag. Aliasing one to the other doesn't help clear up whatever confusion there may be since people will use what they're used to and expect, and can introduce its own confusion and ambiguity.

We aren't a science wiki trying to be scientifically or medically precise and accurate. We're a furry art archive with a lot of pornography, it's okay to use slang fitting for such a case when there isn't a significant problem.

vulpes_artifex said:
If by "cum" we mean only "semen", then by calling it semen we reduce the potential for inexperienced taggers to, for example, tag it instead of or in addition to our shiny new "vaginal fluids" tag, on the basis that, hey, it's girlcum, right?

Has that ever been a problem? cum has existed as a tag for as long as the site has had porn, and "girlcum" has existed as a term since well before the vaginal_fluids tag was created. The tag pussy has its problems, but it's not being done away with because "boypussy" is a term referring to a male's anus.

Irony: This new tag is actually less accurate. :facepalm:

The bulk update request #6869 is active.

remove alias cloacal_fluids (9) -> cloaca_juice (1633)

Reason: I agree with pleaseletmein, if we're getting rid of pussy juice (took us long enough) then the other two have to go as well

EDIT: The bulk update request #6869 (forum #393361) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #6870 is pending approval.

create alias anal_juice (1) -> anal_fluids (10013) # duplicate of has blocking transitive relationships, cannot be applied through bur

Reason: Follow-up to previous BUR

mothbean said:
The bulk update request #6870 is pending approval.

create alias anal_juice (1) -> anal_fluids (10013) # duplicate of has blocking transitive relationships, cannot be applied through bur

Reason: Follow-up to previous BUR

You'll need to remove its aliases and implications first before you can do it through a BUR.

alphamule said:
Irony: This new tag is actually less accurate. :facepalm:

+1

The bulk update request #6869 (forum #393361) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #6891 is pending approval.

remove alias anus_juice (0) -> anal_juice (1)
remove implication anal_juice (1) -> bodily_fluids (1433283)
create implication anal_fluids (10013) -> bodily_fluids (1433283)
remove implication anal_juice_string (573) -> anal_juice (1)
create implication anal_fluids_string (0) -> anal_fluids (10013)

Reason: Changing the anal_juice implication tree

Followup:
alias anal_juice_string -> anal_fluids_string
alias anus_juice -> anal_fluids
alias anal_juice -> anal_fluids

snpthecat said:
You'll need to remove its aliases and implications first before you can do it through a BUR.

Good to know for the future

The bulk update request #6906 is pending approval.

remove alias cloacal_juices (0) -> cloaca_juice (1633)
remove alias cloacal_juice (0) -> cloaca_juice (1633)
remove alias cloaca_juices (0) -> cloaca_juice (1633)
remove alias cloacal_fluid (0) -> cloaca_juice (1633)
remove alias cloaca_fluids (0) -> cloaca_juice (1633)
remove alias cloaca_fluid (0) -> cloaca_juice (1633)
remove implication cloaca_juice (1633) -> genital_fluids (1025129)
remove implication cloaca_ejaculation (119) -> cloaca_juice (1633)
remove implication cloaca_juice_drip (77) -> cloaca_juice (1633)
remove implication cloaca_juice_string (102) -> cloaca_juice (1633)
remove implication infinite_cloaca_juice (0) -> cloaca_juice (1633)

Reason: Changing cloaca_juice to cloacal_fluids to be more in line with the recent change to vaginal fluids

Followup:

alias cloacal_juices -> cloacal_fluids
alias cloacal_juice -> cloacal_fluids
alias cloaca_juices -> cloacal_fluids
alias cloacal_fluid -> cloacal_fluids
alias cloaca_fluids -> cloacal_fluids
alias cloaca_fluid -> cloacal_fluids
imply cloacal_fluids -> genital_fluids
imply cloaca_ejaculation -> cloacal_fluids
imply cloacal_fluids_drip -> cloacal_fluids
imply cloacal_fluids_string -> cloacal_fluids
imply inifinite_cloacal_fluids -> cloacal_fluids
alias cloaca_juice_drip -> cloacal_fluids_drip
alias cloaca_juice_string -> cloaca_fluids_string
alias infinite_cloaca_juice -> inifinite_cloacal_fluids

↓ The bulk update request #7460 is pending approval.

remove alias pussy_juice_on_ass (0) -> pussy_juice_on_butt (312)
remove alias pussy_juice_on_booty (0) -> pussy_juice_on_butt (312)
remove implication pussy_juice_on_butt (312) -> butt (1012655)
remove implication pussy_juice_on_butt (312) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)
create implication vaginal_fluids_on_butt (0) -> butt (1012655)
create implication vaginal_fluids_on_butt (0) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)
remove implication pussy_juice_on_pussy (1342) -> pussy (894468)
remove implication pussy_juice_on_pussy (1342) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)
create implication vaginal_fluids_on_vulva (0) -> pussy (894468)
create implication vaginal_fluids_on_vulva (0) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)

Reason: Covering: pussy_juice_on_butt, pussy_juice_on_pussy
You can suggest better names for the destination of the tag alias
Especially for pussy_juice_on_pussy, should that be changed to vaginal_fluids_on_vulva?

Followup:

Edit: Additional concern someone brought up: should we combine vaginal_fluids_drip and vaginal_fluids_leaking?
Also cum_leaking is aliased to leaking_cum

↓ The bulk update request #7461 is pending approval.

Reason: Covering pussy juice on tentacle, pussy juice on dildo, pussy juice on tongue
Followup:
alias pussy_juice_on_tentacle -> vaginal_fluids_on_tentacle alias pussy_juice_on_dildo -> vaginal_fluids_on_dildo alias pussy_juice_on_tongue -> vaginal_fluids_on_tongue alias pussy_juice_on_tail -> vaginal_fluids_on_tail

↓ The bulk update request #7490 is pending approval.

create alias pussy_juice_pool (182) -> vaginal_fluids_puddle (0)
create alias vaginal_fluids_pool (0) -> vaginal_fluids_puddle (0)
remove implication pussy_juice_puddle (774) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)
create implication vaginal_fluids_puddle (0) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)

Reason: Covering pussy juice puddle

Followup:
alias pussy_juice_puddle -> vaginal_fluids_puddle

I prefer puddle over pool since it gives more distinction between things like swimming_pool and a puddle of liquid

BUR is currently blocked by topic #40867

Currently unsure about whether pussy_juice_taste and licking_pussy_juice should stay separated or combined

↓ The bulk update request #7715 is pending approval.

remove implication pussy_juice_splatter (385) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)
create implication vaginal_fluids_splatter (0) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)
remove alias pussy_juice_on_hands (0) -> pussy_juice_on_hand (1337)
remove alias pussy_juice_on_finger (0) -> pussy_juice_on_hand (1337)
remove alias pussy_juice_on_fingers (0) -> pussy_juice_on_hand (1337)
remove implication pussy_juice_on_hand (1337) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)
create implication vaginal_fluids_on_hand (0) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)
remove implication pussy_juice_on_face (615) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)
create implication vaginal_fluids_on_face (1) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)
remove implication pussy_juice_on_leg (1058) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)
create implication vaginal_fluids_on_leg (16) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)
remove alias pussy_juice_on_legs (0) -> pussy_juice_on_leg (1058)

​
Reason: Covering pussy juice splatter, pussy juice on hand, pussy juice on face, and pussy juice on leg

Followup:
alias pussy_juice_splatter -> vaginal_fluids_splatter alias pussy_juice_on_hand -> vaginal_fluids_on_hand alias pussy_juice_on_hands -> vaginal_fluids_on_hand alias pussy_juice_on_finger -> vaginal_fluids_on_hand alias pussy_juice_on_fingers -> vaginal_fluids_on_hand alias vaginal_fluids_on_hands -> vaginal_fluids_on_hand alias vaginal_fluids_on_finger -> vaginal_fluids_on_hand alias vaginal_fluids_on_fingers -> vaginal_fluids_on_hand alias pussy_juice_on_face -> vaginal_fluids_on_face alias pussy_juice_on_leg -> vaginal_fluids_on_leg alias pussy_juice_on_legs -> vaginal_fluids_on_leg alias vaginal_fluids_on_legs -> vaginal_fluids_on_leg

↓ The bulk update request #7716 is pending approval.

Reason: Covering pussy juice string, pussy juice on penis, pussy juice on ground, and pussy juice on clothing

Followup:
alias pussy_juice_string -> vaginal_fluids_string alias pussy_juice_on_penis -> vaginal_fluids_on_penis alias pussy_juice_on_ground -> vaginal_fluids_on_ground alias pussy_juice_on_floor -> vaginal_fluids_on_ground alias vaginal_fluids_on_floor -> vaginal_fluids_on_ground alias pussy_juice_on_clothing -> vaginal_fluids_on_clothing alias pussy_juice_through_clothing -> vaginal_fluids_through_clothing

↓ The bulk update request #7717 is pending approval.

remove alias shiny_pussy_juice (0) -> glistening_pussy_juice (87)
remove implication glistening_pussy_juice (87) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)
remove implication glistening_pussy_juice (87) -> glistening_genital_fluids (378)
The glistening tags should be aliased away

Reason: Covering glistening pussy juice

Followup:
alias glistening_pussy_juice -> vaginal_fluids alias shiny_pussy_juice -> vaginal_fluids alias glistening_vaginal_fluids -> vaginal_fluids alias shiny_vaginal_fluids -> vaginal_fluids

↓ The bulk update request #7718 is pending approval.

remove implication excessive_pussy_juice (1302) -> excessive_genital_fluids (43438)
remove implication excessive_pussy_juice (1302) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)
remove implication hyper_pussy_juice (0) -> excessive_pussy_juice (1302)
create implication excessive_vaginal_fluids (4) -> excessive_genital_fluids (43438)
create implication excessive_vaginal_fluids (4) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)
remove implication infinite_pussy_juice (0) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)
remove implication infinite_pussy_juice (0) -> infinite_genital_fluids (1569)

Reason: Covering excessive pussy juice, hyper pussy juice, and infinite pussy juice
Followup:

​

hyper_pussy_juice has 0 posts so that can be removed from the followup. It was originally there to match hyper cum, but is that reason enough for a 0 post tag to stay?

Ditto for infinite_pussy_juice. (Though in this case i predict that it's actually undertagged)

Questions section:

What do you think about pussy juice vore (and by extension cum vore)? Not particularly sure I like the name. Might be better off called cum digestion or maybe even dissolved in cum

It's like calling someone dissolving in a vat of battery acid as acid vore

​
​
​
What do you think pussy ejaculation should be renamed as? vaginal ejaculation might not be fully correct other options are worse

​
​
Oh and what should be done with pussy juice taste and licking pussy juice? Combine?

Personally not a fan of this change. For one I got used to it. For two, what's next? Pussy get's to changed to vulva, balls to testicles, cum to semen, butt to glutes and every other colloquial term to scientifically more accurate even if no one actually use them outside of medical field?

snpthecat said:
What do you think pussy ejaculation should be renamed as? vaginal ejaculation might not be fully correct other options are worse

Vaginal_squirting? Or vaginal_ejaculation I think is also fine honestly
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_ejaculation for reference - but I doubt we can call it female_ejaculation because of andromorph/herm/maleherm characters

arter said:
Personally not a fan of this change. For one I got used to it. For two, what's next? Pussy get's to changed to vulva, balls to testicles, cum to semen, butt to glutes and every other colloquial term to scientifically more accurate even if no one actually use them outside of medical field?

One thing at a time - but I promise "pussy juice" is not used in real life outside of the bedroom. That's a phrase for dirty talk/porn dialogue only. Vaginal fluids is a huge improvement imo. Sorry you got used to something else, but you'll get used to this too.

wandering_spaniel said:
Vaginal fluids is a huge improvement imo. Sorry you got used to something else, but you'll get used to this too.

It really isn't. It's going to result in users asking, "Vagina? That's same as pussy, right? So vaginal fluids includes pee, right?" instead of what the tag is for.
This isn't a medical site, so such terminology should be kept to minimum.

genjar said:
It really isn't. It's going to result in users asking, "Vaginal fluids? What, like pee?" instead of what the tag is for.
This isn't a medical site, so such terminology should be kept to minimum.

...Couldn't the same be said for pussy juice?
"Pussy juice? What, like pee?" It sounds even more ambiguous imo. Also it's not really medical terminology, the medical term would be discharge, but it was decided that that sounds less pleasant

Edit:
@ your edit: ...maybe? I guess we'll see. I hope nobody would think that. I still suspect if it were going to be a problem, the same people would also think "juice from a pussy? Pee is a liquid that comes from a pussy. So that includes pee right?" But of course neither of us have data either way so who really knows

Fwiw pussy_juice has been aliased to vaginal_fluids for a while now and I don't think it's been an issue? I haven't personally seen any mistags anyway

wandering_spaniel said:
...Couldn't the same be said for pussy juice?

No, because most folks here have seen the term 'pussy juice' on hundreds of pieces of porn and know what it means.
Pussy juice is pussy juice, but vaginal fluids is anything non-solid that comes from pussy. As far as an average user is concerned, anyway. (It has been proven again and again that most folks have no clue what's the difference between 'pussy' and 'vagina'.)

genjar said:
It really isn't. It's going to result in users asking, "Vagina? That's same as pussy, right? So vaginal fluids includes pee, right?" instead of what the tag is for.
This isn't a medical site, so such terminology should be kept to minimum.

I think it's probably better to assume that the userbase isn't that intentionally obtuse or just figuratively braindead.

like, with tags like animal_abuse. potentially, someone could come along and be like "Aren't all anthros animals???" and then start blanket tagging it on any abuse post containing anthro characters regardless of context. but like, I know what that tag's supposed to be used for, you know what that tag's meant to be used for, and any reasonable user is going to know what that tag is supposed to be used for.

we can't base our decisions on theoretical worst users possible, because, honestly, those people will probably get banned anyways.

dba_afish said:
I think it's probably better to assume that the userbase isn't that intentionally obtuse or just figuratively braindead.

like, with tags like animal_abuse. potentially, someone could come along and be like "Aren't all anthros animals???" and then start blanket tagging it on any abuse post containing anthro characters regardless of context. but like, I know what that tag's supposed to be used for, you know what that tag's meant to be used for, and any reasonable user is going to know what that tag is supposed to be used for.

we can't base our decisions on theoretical worst users possible, because, honestly, those people will probably get banned anyways.

Agreed

↓ The bulk update request #7744 is pending approval.

remove implication pussy_ejaculation (14415) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)
remove implication pussy_ejaculation (14415) -> ejaculation (217218)
create implication vulvar_ejaculation (0) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)
create implication vulvar_ejaculation (0) -> ejaculation (217218)
remove alias squirting (0) -> pussy_ejaculation (14415)
remove alias squirt (0) -> pussy_ejaculation (14415)
remove alias pussy_squirt (0) -> pussy_ejaculation (14415)
remove alias female_ejaculation (0) -> pussy_ejaculation (14415)

Reason: Covering pussy ejaculation

Update: Redirected pussy_ejaculation -> vulvar_ejaculation on a suggestion by abadbird

Followup:

dba_afish said:
I think it's probably better to assume that the userbase isn't that intentionally obtuse or just figuratively braindead.

Nobody's assuming. We've been over this on discord. Hardly anyone knows the difference between pussy and vagina, they're used synonymously. Not even some of the mods could describe the difference.

↓ The bulk update request #7745 is pending approval.

create alias pussy_juice_trail (110) -> vaginal_fluids_trail (0)
create implication vaginal_fluids_trail (0) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)
create implication cum_trail (948) -> cum (689233)

Reason: Covering pussy juice trail

Although not implying vaginal_fluids, it exists and has posts so I'm including it for completeness. It follows cum trail (which doesn't have any implications) but I believe it's worthwhile

Actually this BUR was already a vote on the validity of [genital fluid]_trail tags, so I'll include cum_trail too

↓ The bulk update request #7746 is pending approval.

remove implication pussy_juice_vore (65) -> vore (69520)
remove implication pussy_juice_vore (65) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)
create implication vaginal_fluids_vore (0) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)
create implication vaginal_fluids_vore (0) -> vore (69520)

Reason: Covering pussy juice vore

Decided not to do anything special to this tag, but in the future it (and cum_vore) might need to be re-examined for a rename and for the vore implication

↓ The bulk update request #7747 is pending approval.

Reason: Covering unusual pussy juice, flavored pussy juice, glowing pussy juice, colored pussy juice, and honey pussy juice

Followup:
alias unusual_pussy_juice -> unusual_vaginal_fluids alias flavored_pussy_juice -> flavored_vaginal_fluids alias glowing_pussy_juice -> glowing_vaginal_fluids alias colored_pussy_juice -> colored_vaginal_fluids alias food_pussy_juice -> flavored_vaginal_fluids alias food_vaginal_fluids -> flavored_vaginal_fluids alias honey_pussy_juice -> honey_vaginal_fluids

↓ The bulk update request #7748 is pending approval.

Reason: Covering yellow pussy juice, orange pussy juice, purple pussy juice, green pussy juice, blue pussy juice, black pussy juice, and red pussy juice

E6 colors not covered:
brown pussy juice, grey pussy juice, pink pussy juice, tan pussy juice, teal pussy juice, white pussy juice

What to do with white pussy juice and pink pussy juice? (The others mentioned above do not have posts)

Followup:
alias yellow_pussy_juice -> yellow_vaginal_fluids alias orange_pussy_juice -> orange_vaginal_fluids alias purple_pussy_juice -> purple_vaginal_fluids alias green_pussy_juice -> green_vaginal_fluids alias blue_pussy_juice -> blue_vaginal_fluids alias black_pussy_juice -> black_vaginal_fluids alias red_pussy_juice -> red_vaginal_fluids

And that's all done! (Besides the actual approvals and followups)

Questions I posed in the BURs collected below:

wandering_spaniel said:
One thing at a time - but I promise "pussy juice" is not used in real life outside of the bedroom. That's a phrase for dirty talk/porn dialogue only. Vaginal fluids is a huge improvement imo. Sorry you got used to something else, but you'll get used to this too.

I never said that it's used anywhere else. I did not specify it at all. Hell, despite self description of E621 as: "mature furry imageboard. It is based off, and inspired by, Danbooru. Our mission is to archive and distribute the best / strangest / most excellent furry-related artwork, regardless of content, for all those who wish to view it." it's mostly porn site. There is a lot of excellent SFW art but c'mon. While sorting by score in three top pages there are two questionable results, zero safe and rest are explicit.

As much as I think that e621 has probably the best tagging system of any site I've visited. Maintained, extensive, accurate, interconnected and mostly used correctly with evolution as time goes. Not every change was popular. Still, it's good that someone cares.
I got a bit sidetracked here. Tagging should be accurate but also understandable. You can be dumb on purpose but there are terms that come quicker to mind when someone think about some subjects. So pornographic terminology to describe pornographic images seems obvious and intuitive. Pussy juice, girl cum, grool or whatever. People are used to it. People use it. Medical term is vaginal discharge. Vaginal fluids here because of reasons. It got accepted. So I will have to live with it but I still don't like it. Price I am willing to pay for well maintained tag base. As long as there will be alias because I will probably tag it old way by force of habit.

Anyway, main reason of this post begins here. SNPtheCat answered my gripe in topic #19124 and told me to bring it here. So here I go.
Alias for pussy_juice_drip and pussy_juice_leaking
I understand that it was already rejected and won't even argue about this. However pussy_juice_leaking doesn't have wiki description and I personally have no idea what is difference. So if no difference then there should be alias and if there is difference it there should be somewhere explanation what that difference is.
Or vaginal_fluid_drip and vaginal_fluid_leaking what would probably be new nomenclature here.

Edit. And that what you get for not refreshing page before posting. SNPtheCat already mentioned it in post above.

arter said:

Anyway, main reason of this post begins here. SNPtheCat answered my gripe in topic #19124 and told me to bring it here. So here I go.
Alias for pussy_juice_drip and pussy_juice_leaking
I understand that it was already rejected and won't even argue about this. However pussy_juice_leaking doesn't have wiki description and I personally have no idea what is difference. So if no difference then there should be alias and if there is difference it there should be somewhere explanation what that difference is.
Or vaginal_fluid_drip and vaginal_fluid_leaking what would probably be new nomenclature here.

The alias was rejected 3 years ago and by an admin that's now former staff. Sentiments change and things can be reconsidered. While previous decisions can be seen as precedent, if there's good enough reason to overturn them you should always voice your opinion

↓ The bulk update request #7750 is pending approval.

remove implication pussy_juice_leaking (2372) -> leaking (19154)
remove implication pussy_juice_leaking (2372) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)
create implication leaking_vaginal_fluids (0) -> leaking (19154)
create implication leaking_vaginal_fluids (0) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)
create alias vaginal_fluids_leaking (0) -> leaking_vaginal_fluids (0)
create alias leaking_pussy_juice (217) -> leaking_vaginal_fluids (0) # has blocking transitive relationships, cannot be applied through BUR
remove alias pussy_juice_dripping (0) -> pussy_juice_drip (8092)
remove implication pussy_juice_drip (8092) -> dripping (128392)
remove implication pussy_juice_drip (8092) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)
create implication vaginal_fluids_drip (3) -> dripping (128392)
create implication vaginal_fluids_drip (3) -> vaginal_fluids (198089)

Reject topic #43096 to avoid BTR

Reason: Covering pussy juice leaking, and pussy juice drip

Do we want to keep leaking_[genital fluids] and [genital fluids]_drip separate? Made this BUR so it can be voted on separately

Followup:

snpthecat said:
Reason: For pussy_ejaculation -> vaginal_ejaculation
alias pussy_ejaculation -> vaginal_ejaculation alias female_ejaculation -> vaginal_ejaculation alias pussy_squirt -> vaginal_ejaculation alias squirt -> vaginal_ejaculation alias squirting -> vaginal_ejaculation

I'm not so sure about this one. I think aliasing all of these towards female_ejaculation would be better. In reality, females don't ejaculate from the vagina. It actually comes out of the urethra, so vaginal_ejaculation is flat-out wrong.

Of course, if I were to make a guess, I'd say that many artists don't realize this (especially considering the frequently depicted nonsense of the penis penetrating the cervix of the uterus without causing the female pain). Further, it could even be argued most depictions are likely ambiguous about their origin. If we aim it at female_ejaculation and not vaginal_ejaculation, we can cover these cases without having to worry about the exact origin. In case there's a quibble of "what about andromorphs and herms?", in this case, "female" would refer to the style of ejaculation involved rather than the exact gender involved. So, I suppose feminine_ejaculation could a potential replacement.

clawstripe said:
I'm not so sure about this one. I think aliasing all of these towards female_ejaculation would be better. In reality, females don't ejaculate from the vagina. It actually comes out of the urethra, so vaginal_ejaculation is flat-out wrong.

Of course, if I were to make a guess, I'd say that many artists don't realize this (especially considering the frequently depicted nonsense of the penis penetrating the cervix of the uterus without causing the female pain). Further, it could even be argued most depictions are likely ambiguous about their origin. If we aim it at female_ejaculation and not vaginal_ejaculation, we can cover these cases without having to worry about the exact origin. In case there's a quibble of "what about andromorphs and herms?", in this case, "female" would refer to the style of ejaculation involved rather than the exact gender involved. So, I suppose feminine_ejaculation could a potential replacement.

I'd prefer female_ejaculation over feminine_, feel like feminine would be more confusing

Didn't want to alias to female ejaculation because that'll be gendering a tag meant for more than just female, and I don't think feminine is much better since it's wording implicitly excludes the 'masculine' genders maleherm and andromorph

snpthecat said:
Questions section:

What do you think about pussy juice vore (and by extension cum vore)? Not particularly sure I like the name. Might be better off called cum digestion or maybe even dissolved in cum

It's like calling someone dissolving in a vat of battery acid as acid vore

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What do you think pussy ejaculation should be renamed as? vaginal ejaculation might not be fully correct other options are worse

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Oh and what should be done with pussy juice taste and licking pussy juice? Combine?

Considering that it's a common term, need to make sure that one's searchable. Also, it might not actually be very accurate? That's all.

clawstripe said:
I'm not so sure about this one. I think aliasing all of these towards female_ejaculation would be better. In reality, females don't ejaculate from the vagina. It actually comes out of the urethra, so vaginal_ejaculation is flat-out wrong.

Of course, if I were to make a guess, I'd say that many artists don't realize this (especially considering the frequently depicted nonsense of the penis penetrating the cervix of the uterus without causing the female pain). Further, it could even be argued most depictions are likely ambiguous about their origin. If we aim it at female_ejaculation and not vaginal_ejaculation, we can cover these cases without having to worry about the exact origin. In case there's a quibble of "what about andromorphs and herms?", in this case, "female" would refer to the style of ejaculation involved rather than the exact gender involved. So, I suppose feminine_ejaculation could a potential replacement.

What about contractions and fluids (gasses or liquids) already in the vagina? Isn't there a form of queefing like this?

alphamule said:
What about contractions and fluids (gasses or liquids) already in the vagina? Isn't there a form of queefing like this?

Quite possibly, but it's not ejaculate, though it might be mistaken for such.

Wikipedia on female ejaculation.

If you actually want to kill the pussy tags and start usingvulva and other more correct terms, then vulvar_ejaculation would be more correct for e621. I don't know if there's a better "penile" equivalent than "vulvar." It's not "vaginal." Also, from looking this up (yet again), the experts haven't settled on a name for these fluids either other than "ejaculate." vulvar_ejaculatory_fluids ugh... Notably, experts say "female ejaculation" a lot, even after acknowledging its gendered exclusion.

I could dump a lot of what I read, but most of this is still inconclusive so there's not much point in doing a larger review. This thread is also almost 70 posts and most people aren't reading deeply at this point anyway. A few things are safer to say and relevant, however.

Vulvar ejaculation has been broken down into three types: ejaculate from the Skene's glands (paraurethral glands), "squirting," and coital incontinence. And coital incontinence is only mentioned to quickly dismiss it. Not ejaculation.

The Skene's glands are located near the urethra and secrete what is thought of as the true ejaculate. Squirting involves the (filling and) emptying of the bladder. Squirting fluid is chemically similar to urine, but decidedly different enough that it's not considered "pee." The literature seems very undecided on what exactly to consider the squirting fluid in relation to urine.

It is unclear if the Skene's glands secrete fluid into the urethra and outside or just outside. Some vulvas do not have Skene's glands or so I've read. The Skene's ejaculate is a small amount of viscous, whitish fluid whereas squirting is that greater amount of clear fluid. We can pretty safely say that the overwhelming majority of furry porn with vulvar ejaculation depicts squirting. If the fluid is clear, we could never tell it apart from the other fluids unless the artist depicts an accurate Skene's ejaculation.

Edit: Reading this back... If the squirting that is all we ever see technically is not ejaculation, then this whole pursuit of "pussy ejaculation" tags is also fundamentally flawed. We could still call this phenomenon orgasm I suppose... These don't only occur during orgasm either, but let's not let that stop us. vulvar_orgasm or squirting_orgasm are more correct, along with *_orgasmic_fluid. (Yes, the experts say "squirting" a lot.)

Hmmm, vulvar_ejaculation seems like a pretty good option, changing the BUR.

abadbird said:
If you actually want to kill the pussy tags and start usingvulva and other more correct terms, then vulvar_ejaculation would be more correct for e621. I don't know if there's a better "penile" equivalent than "vulvar." It's not "vaginal." Also, from looking this up (yet again), the experts haven't settled on a name for these fluids either other than "ejaculate." vulvar_ejaculatory_fluids ugh... Notably, experts say "female ejaculation" a lot, even after acknowledging its gendered exclusion.

I could dump a lot of what I read, but most of this is still inconclusive so there's not much point in doing a larger review. This thread is also almost 70 posts and most people aren't reading deeply at this point anyway. A few things are safer to say and relevant, however.

Vulvar ejaculation has been broken down into three types: ejaculate from the Skene's glands (paraurethral glands), "squirting," and coital incontinence. And coital incontinence is only mentioned to quickly dismiss it. Not ejaculation.

The Skene's glands are located near the urethra and secrete what is thought of as the true ejaculate. Squirting involves the (filling and) emptying of the bladder. Squirting fluid is chemically similar to urine, but decidedly different enough that it's not considered "pee." The literature seems very undecided on what exactly to consider the squirting fluid in relation to urine.

It is unclear if the Skene's glands secrete fluid into the urethra and outside or just outside. Some vulvas do not have Skene's glands or so I've read. The Skene's ejaculate is a small amount of viscous, whitish fluid whereas squirting is that greater amount of clear fluid. We can pretty safely say that the overwhelming majority of furry porn with vulvar ejaculation depicts squirting. If the fluid is clear, we could never tell it apart from the other fluids unless the artist depicts an accurate Skene's ejaculation.

Edit: Reading this back... If the squirting that is all we ever see technically is not ejaculation, then this whole pursuit of "pussy ejaculation" tags is also fundamentally flawed. We could still call this phenomenon orgasm I suppose... These don't only occur during orgasm either, but let's not let that stop us. vulvar_orgasm or squirting_orgasm are more correct, along with *_orgasmic_fluid. (Yes, the experts say "squirting" a lot.)

makes a lot of sense to me, actually, and should imply orgasm anyway, since (at least in art, and via Tag What You See), you aren't going to have a case of vulvar ejaculation that isn't recognized as an orgasm. An orgasm, strictly speaking, is an internal sensation that itself cannot be seen in any way, but it occurs alongside certain physical phenomena, so we can tag it based on those phenomena, with ejaculation being one of them.
Barring that, vulvar_ejaculation is also fine, but sounds a tad clinical. Which is... fine, but I prefer the other.

scaliespe said:
squirting_orgasm makes a lot of sense to me, actually, and should imply orgasm anyway, since (at least in art, and via Tag What You See), you aren't going to have a case of vulvar ejaculation that isn't recognized as an orgasm. An orgasm, strictly speaking, is an internal sensation that itself cannot be seen in any way, but it occurs alongside certain physical phenomena, so we can tag it based on those phenomena, with ejaculation being one of them.

Then would that not apply to the other things implying ejaculation, like cumshot? So far ejaculation and it's subtags don't imply orgasm

I'm open to either name option, these two are decent. I would say let's see what the others think but interactions are getting sparser the longer the thread drags on

The edit text on my post kind of invalidates some of that post's earlier text, but I wasn't going to rewrite the thing, especially after posting it. Great example of a fundamental flaw discovered in review that would normally get left on the cutting room floor and never make it to post.

It bears repeating that the newer literature does not consider "squirting" to be ejaculation. Non-experts like us might connect squirting to ejaculation, but this is now viewed as incorrect. So if we want to Get It Right this time, we mustn't tag what we've been calling "pussy ejaculation" as ejaculation anymore.

So what is vulvar ejaculate then? skene's_fluid seems like an accurate landing place. We are extremely unlikely to visibly observe this ejaculation in action in art--I am not convinced that most of the experts even know what ejaculating Skene's glands look like so how could artists--but we may rarely observe some whitish, frothy liquid around a vulva that we can tell from context isn't penile cum. So the ejaculated fluid could be tagged, but probably not the process of vulvar ejaculation.

What?

alias pussy_ejaculation -> squirting_orgasm
imply squirting_orgasm -> squirt_fluid

How about squirt_fluid lol? Seems like an appropriately jank tag a booru would dream up. It's "maybe urine but not pee." I can't predict if people will abuse these tags. This will be new to almost everyone.

abadbird said:
The edit text on my post kind of invalidates some of that post's earlier text, but I wasn't going to rewrite the thing, especially after posting it. Great example of a fundamental flaw discovered in review that would normally get left on the cutting room floor and never make it to post.

It bears repeating that the newer literature does not consider "squirting" to be ejaculation. Non-experts like us might connect squirting to ejaculation, but this is now viewed as incorrect. So if we want to Get It Right this time, we mustn't tag what we've been calling "pussy ejaculation" as ejaculation anymore.

So what is vulvar ejaculate then? skene's_fluid seems like an accurate landing place. We are extremely unlikely to visibly observe this ejaculation in action in art--I am not convinced that most of the experts even know what ejaculating Skene's glands look like so how could artists--but we may rarely observe some whitish, frothy liquid around a vulva that we can tell from context isn't penile cum. So the ejaculated fluid could be tagged, but probably not the process of vulvar ejaculation.

It never occurred to me that squirting wouldn't be considered a type of ejaculation, to be honest, given the dictionary definition of ejaculate: "to eject suddenly and swiftly; discharge," which would perfectly define squirting. And yet, the other listed definition specifically describes the discharge of semen, with no mention of a female equivalent, so you do seem to be correct on that point.

What?

alias pussy_ejaculation -> squirting_orgasm
imply squirting_orgasm -> squirt_fluid

How about squirt_fluid lol? Seems like an appropriately jank tag a booru would dream up. It's "maybe urine but not pee." I can't predict if people will abuse these tags. This will be new to almost everyone.

That would work for me.

snpthecat said:
Then would that not apply to the other things implying ejaculation, like cumshot? So far ejaculation and it's subtags don't imply orgasm

I'm open to either name option, these two are decent. I would say let's see what the others think but interactions are getting sparser the longer the thread drags on

The argument against cumshot is that it can occur from off-screen, and supposedly it doesn't make sense to tag orgasm on a character who isn't even in the post. I don't personally care too much about this distinction, and I think trying to maintain it is causing orgasm to be missing from posts a lot more often than it needs to be, but that's the rationale in any case. I would be content to say that a character orgasming off-screen is good enough to tag orgasm if the evidence of their orgasm ends up in the image, but that's just me, and it's rather beside the point. This is not a factor when it comes to squirting simply because, well... cum looks like cum, you can pretty safely assume that it is cum even if you can't see where it came from. Squirt fluid is just clear, like water, and that could be anything. If a character is squirting off-screen into the frame of the post, you can't really tell what that is without outside knowledge. It being water from a squirt gun is more likely than it being squirt fluid. So I would say that the implication is fine, as the orgasming character must be visible in the post to even be able to tag it as squirting via TWYS.

The other tags also need to be updated: https://e621.net/tags?search%5Bname_matches%5D=pussy_juice_*

aaronfranke said:
The other tags also need to be updated: https://e621.net/tags?search%5Bname_matches%5D=pussy_juice_*

See topic #42189

BUR index:
#buttpussy
#tentacledildotongue
#puddle
#splatterhandfaceleg
#stringpenisgroundclothing
#glistening
#excessivehyperinfinite
#ejaculation
#trail
#vore
#unusualflavoredglowingcoloredhoney
#colors
#leakingdrip