Probably going to get down voted into oblivion, but hear me out.

Due to the sheer volume of images as well as the rampant misuse of these tags it is incredibly unlikely that a tagging project to fix this would ever be completed. Personally I believe that these tags should be unimplicated from other tags and aliased accordingly. Similar to how toned was pushed into athletic. So we would end up with athletic for non-bulky body types, followed by muscular for bulky but realistically attainable body types, and then hyper for completely unrealistic body types.

Explanation stuff. There are a couple of reasons, but the 2 big ones:

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1. As a search term both of these tags are awful. Take these searches for example with 250 results per page:

- muscular -big_muscles -huge_muscles -hyper_muscles has at least 750 pages. That is more that 187500 images that do not have any of the *_muscles tags
- muscular big_muscles -huge_muscles -hyper_muscles has 127 pages (roughly 31750 images)
- muscular big_muscles huge_muscles -hyper_muscles has 39 pages (roughly 9750 images)

If I want to search for muscular characters in art it is far more effective to search up something like muscular -hyper than to use either of these tags. Were I to use either one I would miss out on a massive amount of content simply because the tags are massively underutilized or used wrong. Speaking of...

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2. Both of these tags have pretty noticeable misstagging issues. Browse literally any page at random of big_muscles or huge_muscles (minus the appropriate tags that would show larger muscles) and you will find plenty of examples:

Do you like my "Big Muscles"? No, I'm not a bodybuilder. Why do you ask?
post #3488591 post #3644643 post #3509318

What do you mean I'm not that big? Check out my "Huge Muscles"!
post #3796183 post #3708402 post #3296693

Just a small sampling of pain.

It's obvious that this tag group needs a lot of work. I don't know if a nuking is in order.

The bulk update request #4200 is pending approval.

remove implication hyper_muscles (9092) -> huge_muscles (22869)
remove implication huge_muscles (22869) -> big_muscles (62459)
remove implication big_muscles (62459) -> muscular (441125)

Reason: Creating this so people can actually vote.
Can edit as necessary based on suggestions/discussion.

Q: would a mass update/nuke be required for big_muscles and hyper_muscles or will the alias handle that?

I don't really have this fetish for muscles,but I'm sure anyone that do would want to tune how much they want of it.

There was someone who was mad at me for not tagging hyper on upload, despite tagging it a bunch other tags they could have blacklisted.

Big and huge serve that purpose to fill in the space in-between relatively normal muscles and cartoonishly exaggerated ones aka hyper_muscles.

wolfmanfur said:
I don't really have this fetish for muscles,but I'm sure anyone that do would want to tune how much they want of it.

There was someone who was mad at me for not tagging hyper on upload, despite tagging it a bunch other tags they could have blacklisted.

Big and huge serve that purpose to fill in the space in-between relatively normal muscles and cartoonishly exaggerated ones aka hyper_muscles.

The problem is that it's only possible to tune it if people use the tags, and use them correctly. Both of those things currently don't happen very often, rendering the tags pretty useless in that regard. Due to these tags not being used properly (or at all) muscular already ends up serving as an "in-between" tag. Fixing that is likely not going to happen simply because of how many posts are involved.

Based on the wiki and every discussion I've found on it the muscular is currently supposed to be a catchall tag for the larger muscle groups (big, huge, and hyper). This change would simply make it so that muscular would basically replace big_muscles and huge_muscles. Technically it already serves as the tag for relatively normal muscle groups. The hyper tags would still exist and would be used for the exaggerated muscles.

Want to see muscles, but not big/bulky muscles (swimmer bod, slim and trim, toned, call it whatever you want)? Use athletic
Want to see all big muscles? Use muscular
Want to see big muscles, but not hyper? Use muscular -hyper_muscles
Want to see exaggerated muscles? Use hyper_muscles

shitposter said:
Based on the wiki and every discussion I've found on it the muscular is currently supposed to be a catchall tag for the larger muscle groups (big, huge, and hyper). This change would simply make it so that muscular would basically replace big_muscles and huge_muscles. Technically it already serves as the tag for relatively normal muscle groups. The hyper tags would still exist and would be used for the exaggerated muscles.

In thesame vein that penis is a regular-sized penis. It is a catchall tag for the bigger penis groups. What would removing huge_ and big_ penis do? Nothing, as technically penis already serves as the tag for relatively normal penis groups.
If you were trying to convince me to support this bur it is not a good argument to do it. hopefully, you see the flaw in the logic.

I can get behind that if a somehing is never agged correctly because a tag is vague, general or unnecessary, but it seems the problem comes from either a poor definition of what 'big' or 'huge' should be which is also a problem regarding 'hyper' because as I said I got yelled at because a character had a slightly bigger than normal feet (ot belly, can't remember exactly. it was one or the other) which then I gave it the huge_feet tag and maybe I'm wrong and that was supposed to be hyper_feet or I was right and huge_feet was entirely correct.

This is a problem that affects alll size tags because of lackluster definition and given the subjective nature of these. it's not exclusive to the muscle-related ones and this is fixable, so I don't see the point in completely dismantling them. If the mistagging is constant because it ain't defined properly, the problem should be fixed by rectifying their wiki page.

wolfmanfur said:
In thesame vein that penis is a regular-sized penis. It is a catchall tag for the bigger penis groups. What would removing huge_ and big_ penis do? Nothing, as technically penis already serves as the tag for relatively normal penis groups.
If you were trying to convince me to support this bur it is not a good argument to do it. hopefully, you see the flaw in the logic.

I can get behind that if a somehing is never agged correctly because a tag is vague, general or unnecessary, but it seems the problem comes from either a poor definition of what 'big' or 'huge' should be which is also a problem regarding 'hyper' because as I said I got yelled at because a character had a slightly bigger than normal feet (ot belly, can't remember exactly. it was one or the other) and thus I gave it the huge_feet tag and maybe I'm wrong and that was supposed to be hyper_feet or I was right and huge_feet was entirely correct.

This is a problem that affects alll size tags because of lackluster definition and given the subjective nature of these. it's not exclusive to the muscle-related ones and this is fixable, so I don't see the point in completely dismantling them. If the mistagging is constant because it ain't defined properly, the problem should be fixed by rectifying their wiki page.

That is a terrible counterargument. The difference is that tags like "penis", and other similar tags such as "breasts", are not just catchall tags. You said it yourself: a penis is a regular-sized penis. The tag serves a very distinct function in comparison to the other penis sized tags. The muscular tag does not have that distinction. The only purpose it is supposed to serve is as a catchall tag; although it does not work that way in practice due to tagging issues.

Are there other tags which currently only serve as catchall tags and have the same problem as muscular? Probably. I am not going to pretend I know every single tag on the site. I'm only bringing up muscular specifically simply because, due to my tastes, it is the one most noticeable to me. Could the definitions for these tags be better? Sure. But even with their current definitions a lot of the mistagging is completely inexcusable (see the examples I put in the first post).

shitposter said:
That is a terrible counterargument. The difference is that tags like "penis", and other similar tags such as "breasts", are not just catchall tags. You said it yourself: a penis is a regular-sized penis. The tag serves a very distinct function in comparison to the other penis sized tags. The muscular tag does not have that distinction. The only purpose it is supposed to serve is as a catchall tag; although it does not work that way in practice due to tagging issues.

Are there other tags which currently only serve as catchall tags and have the same problem as muscular? Probably. I am not going to pretend I know every single tag on the site. I'm only bringing up muscular specifically simply because, due to my tastes, it is the one most noticeable to me. Could the definitions for these tags be better? Sure. But even with their current definitions a lot of the mistagging is completely inexcusable (see the examples I put in the first post).

big_, huge_ and hyper_ penis implicate penis, so it does serve that purpose as a catchall tag. If it wouldnt then it wouldnt be implicated to so many different tags.

Complain about the mistagging to the admins, if youre entire argument is based solely on the behavior on other people as to why something is bad then it ain't a good argument, period. This argument sounds like that time people were saying that they hate Pokemon because of the community. It never will be a good and reasonable point and it is a petty excuse at that.

Read what I said again. I never said that they do not serve as catchall tags. I specifically said, and emphasized, that they are not just catchall tags

I'm a bit confused on the proposition, would the TL;DR version be something like this? :
1) Muscle sizes are gravely mistagged or undertagged
2) The opinion on what muscles count has big, huge, or large can vary greatly from person to person, which is the core reason of the mistags.
3) You're suggesting on aliasing 'normal' or 'realistic' muscle sizes to the muscular tag, and leave hyper_muscles and large_muscles for when a character is noticeably very muscular?

If that's correct, then I think I can short of agree with it.

shitposter said:
Read what I said again. I never said that they do not serve as catchall tags. I specifically said, and emphasized, that they are not just catchall tags

While you were complaining I fixed the tags on the pictures you have provided above.

On another note, this one
post #3796183
had ""huge_bulge" tagged too. Does the bulge look huge to you?

Given the point of this bur, do we start a bur to remove big_bulge and huge_bulge while we are at it?

m3g4p0n1 said:
I'm a bit confused on the proposition, would the TL;DR version be something like this? :
1) Muscle sizes are gravely mistagged or undertagged
2) The opinion on what muscles count has big, huge, or large can vary greatly from person to person, which is the core reason of the mistags.
3) You're suggesting on aliasing 'normal' or 'realistic' muscle sizes to the muscular tag, and leave hyper_muscles and large_muscles for when a character is noticeably very muscular?

If that's correct, then I think I can short of agree with it.

1. Yes.

2. Up to a point? I think it's more that people just don't read the wiki. There are some basic definitions, and the wiki does give image examples. The wiki pages could be improved in general.

• muscular = When a character has any level of musculature above athletic.
• big_muscles = clearly defined and substantial muscle mass, yet the musculature should be realistically attainable. Perfect for the physique of a professional athlete, yet not as large, bulky or defined as a professional bodybuilder.
• huge_muscles = A level of musculature characteristic of professional bodybuilders and weightlifters.
• hyper_muscles = characters whose muscles are bulky beyond physical possibility.

3. Per the definitions above muscular would essentially take on the role of big_muscles and huge_muscles. Hyper_muscles would still exist. Athletic would exist for non-bulky bodies. large_muscles is aliased to big_muscles.