The bulk update request #4083 has been rejected.

change category halloween (24598) -> general
change category christmas (37474) -> general
change category thanksgiving (705) -> general
change category easter (4595) -> general
change category valentine's_day (5595) -> general
change category new_year (3405) -> general
change category st._patrick's_day (391) -> general
change category mother's_day (533) -> general
change category father's_day (287) -> general
change category hanukkah (26) -> general
change category kwanzaa (10) -> general
change category carnival_(holiday) (199) -> general

Reason: Split off from topic #29801. Figured it was about time someone put this to a formal discussion.

This has been asked for time and time again:

topic #30810
topic #24949
topic #18206
topic #2190

All of these tags imply holidays, which is a general tag, so clearly the concept of "holidays" isn't considered worthy of purple text on its own.

These tags are unlike everything else in the copyright section. Most obviously, they are not copyrights. They are also not memes, the other major use of that category - each one of them encompasses many more than a single idea. In the broadest sense, they describe nothing more than a particular point on the human calendar - this is particularly obvious in the case of new_year. Making christmas a copyright tag makes no more sense than making winter a copyright tag. Plus there are other general tags that describe the overall "theme" of the image - see nightmare_fuel, super_gay, or even what. (Also, I personally believe spooky should be re-validated, but that's a topic for another time.)

For a good counterexample, see the sport tag and its implications. Games like soccer, much like Christmas, have a defined set of objects, costumes, events, and even decorations which can all appear in any combination to make a post eligible for that tag. Nobody has ever argued that it should be anything other than a general tag.

The few admin justifications for the current state of affairs I have been able to find range from the ill-advised to the frankly silly.

forum #135143:

furrypickle said:
I thought it was so that they wouldn't get lost in with the general tags. Just like invalid_tag isn't really an artist and invalid_color isn't really a character. But it's useful to make that one exception because it's a little bit more important than just another general tag and would get lost otherwise.

Holidays as copyright tags is a little bit on the odd side. Practically speaking, they're almost more like themes and that doesn't completely fit anywhere. But it is handy to have them prominently up and separate from the general tags. I really think they'd be tagged a lot less often if they were just general tags, so I'm not too keen on making them a general tag. I don't know what the ideal solution is.

I'd be fine with making all of them into copyright tags. God knows there's plenty of commercialism of holidays that it more than halfway makes sense. Whatever we decide though, I think all the holiday tags should be the same designation (copyright or general) no longer mixed like it is now.

So they "won't get lost"? Really? You think people are out here not tagging christmas on Christmas art because the name isn't purple? Hell, if you want an example of tags which really do frequently get "lost" and where a non-general category might be useful, try the gender tags. I know for a fact that's been suggested before.

forum #209378:

genjar said:
Basically this.
It's currently the best category for visibility: holiday posts rarely have other copyright tags.

Again, what exactly is so special about holidays that they require "visibility" over and above nearly every other tag, including all the compulsory tags except artists?

And of course holiday posts rarely having other copyright tags is part of the problem. We're never going to have a reliable "original character" tag because we all know it'll go untagged in at least 90% of cases where it's applicable, and that's before you consider where to draw the line when an artist gets sufficiently established to have other artists drawing fanart of their characters. But one thing we do have is an extremely robust system for tagging fanart, which is majorly dragged down by a combo of these, mythology (I'll get to that) and borderline-invalid tags like patreon.

forum #238963:

NotMeNotYou said:
It's there for easier visibility, a couple other tags also fall into that category where visibility of them is more important than correctness of the category's title.

Again with the "visibility". Who decided that Christmas was being made "invisible", anyway? Who runs this site, the Daily Mail?

forum #317046 (my personal favourite):

bitwolfy said:
Christmas is a copyright tag for the same reason until_it_snaps is a one.
Copyright tags are not literally only for copyrighted properties. It's also used for themes, memes, and holidays.

Read that again: "Themes, memes, and holidays."

In other words, it's a special case because it's a special case. That's literally it.

EDIT: The bulk update request #4083 (forum #356809) has been rejected by @gattonero2001.

TL;DR
What's the short version?

You sayin Holidays shouldn't be purple text?
or
Holidays should be Purple Text?

I think Holidays should be Purple text, I feel they are important and that posts under them inhabit a shared idea. The shared idea being, well...a Holiday.
If you or whoever disagrees with me then I say THUMBS DOWN

The thought of even making these into general tags upsets me.

I stoped reading after

"The few admin justifications for the current state of affairs I have been able to find range from the ill-advised to the frankly silly."

That never made any sense to me, neither does the tagging system on this site in general but that's besides the point. Shouldn't the copyright catagory be for copyright tags? Last I checked holidays aren't copywritten and neither are memes. There's really no reason for holidays to be under copyright at all.

closetpossum said:
You sayin Holidays shouldn't be purple text?
or
Holidays should be Purple Text?

Did you even glance at which way the BUR was pointing?

closetpossum said:
I think Holidays should be Purple text, I feel they are important and that posts under them inhabit a shared idea. The shared idea being, well...a Holiday.
If you or whoever disagrees with me then I say THUMBS DOWN

I should hope that posts under any tag inhabit a "shared idea" of that tag.

You know what's more important in our tagging system? Gender, quantity and form tags. You think those should have pretty coloured text too?

closetpossum said:
The thought of even making these into general tags upsets me.

If you thought this was a good Christian site, you're in for a nasty shock.

sexygaydragon said:
That never made any sense to me, neither does the tagging system on this site in general but that's besides the point. Shouldn't the copyright catagory be for copyright tags? Last I checked holidays aren't copywritten and neither are memes. There's really no reason for holidays to be under copyright at all.

Memes can and have been copyrighted, actually. But even aside from that, there's more of an argument to call, say, the posts under please_respond "fanart" of that one hapless Snapchat user than there is for every post with pumpkins in it.

The bulk update request #4083 (forum #356809) has been rejected by @gattonero2001.

wat8548 said:
Did you even glance at which way the BUR was pointing?
I should hope that posts under any tag inhabit a "shared idea" of that tag.

You know what's more important in our tagging system? Gender, quantity and form tags. You think those should have pretty coloured text too?
If you thought this was a good Christian site, you're in for a nasty shock.

Memes can and have been copyrighted, actually. But even aside from that, there's more of an argument to call, say, the posts under please_respond "fanart" of that one hapless Snapchat user than there is for every post with pumpkins in it.

1) NOPE, I didn't
2) I've been on this site longer than you have, I'm your senior. Get with it. Alo I DO think Gender should have a pretty color, like pink. I also think AESTHETICS like: Nun, Cowboy, Cyberpunk, Goth, Punk should have a pretty color...like...yellow maybe.
3) what? didn't read.

closetpossum said:
2) I've been on this site longer than you have, I'm your senior. Get with it. Alo I DO think Gender should have a pretty color, like pink. I also think AESTHETICS like: Nun, Cowboy, Cyberpunk, Goth, Punk should have a pretty color...like...yellow maybe.

Being on the site longer than someone else does not make you automatically correct.
And pointing out your "seniority" is kind of pathetic as far as arguments go, in my opinion.

bitwolfy said:
Being on the site longer than someone else does not make you automatically correct.
And pointing out your "seniority" is kind of pathetic as far as arguments go, in my opinion.

OMG BitWolfy, it was a joke and you took it so seriously
Good to know you have time to call me pathetic and not respond to my messages; it wasn't even an argument.
A snarky remark for a snarky remark

Jesus christ. Did gaining admin go to your head?
Used to be more chill and actually understood jokes.
You even helped me dispute a mark I got once.
Now you're jaded.

closetpossum said:
OMG BitWolfy, it was a joke and you took it so seriously
Good to know you have time to call me pathetic and not respond to my messages; it wasn't even an argument.
A snarky remark for a snarky remark

Jesus christ. Did gaining admin go to your head?
Used to be more chill and actually understood jokes.
You even helped me dispute a mark I got once.
Now you're jaded.

I'm asking you genuinely and sincerely, what aspect of your message indicated that it was a joke?

strikerman said:
I'm asking you genuinely and sincerely, what aspect of your message indicated that it was a joke?

The context is that Wat8548 said a snarky comment

If you thought this was a good Christian site, you're in for a nasty shock.

which implies that he thinks I haven't been on the website for so long. Which then I retorted with my own snarky remark that I'm his senior by two years.

The joke is that someone who is explaining how something works cause they are knowledgable
meanwhile the other party states that they're older than them. Which is a common trope in Anime
which was what I was going off of in formulaying the joke without saying that it's a joke.

Saying that something is a joke ruins the joke

post #2618434

there, that's the joke. And it would have been left at that. But someone took it in some wonderful direction and
derailed the topic. After that joke I continue that certain tags I do feel like deserve color. Like Gender & Aesthetics
I didn't need to be name called or have my words twisted for something so simplistic and small.
If it wasn't funny it wasn't funny, I'm sorry, go cringe.

This thread has so much anger in it over the colour of holiday tags. Sizzle down sports.

closetpossum said:
Good to know you have time to call me pathetic and not respond to my messages; it wasn't even an argument.

I thought that incoherent rambling mess you sent my way was best left alone.
Not sure what I could even say in response.

I'm usually pretty lenient if someone asks me to take another look at the record I gave them, or simply apologizes for breaking the rules.
There is no need to crack the whip when someone clearly interacts in good faith.
But not when you stubbornly insist that you did not break the rules because "interacting with the character as if you were there" (as you put it) is not roleplaying, and that I was doing "mental gymnastics" to justify not removing your older records.

closetpossum said:
Now you're jaded.

This part is true, though.
The ticket queue drains life out of anyone who touches it.

Either way, this is wildly off topic, and I would rather not have this devolve into more drama.
The holiday tags are fine the way the are.