Topic: [REJECTED] Tag implication: young_domination -> young

Posted under Tag Alias and Implication Suggestions

watsit said:
"young_domination" should be disambiguated (is the young character dominating, or being dominated?), and it should use submissive_young (if being dominated) or dominant_young (if being dominant).

I will work on disambiguating some posts. Should there be different tags for submissive/dominant cub/young characters?

Right now we have young_domination and cub_domination(which implies young_domination).

That makes me think I should create submissive_cub and dominant_cub tags to go alon submissive_young and dominant_young, but that feels like too many tags that become redundant.

m3g4p0n1 said:
They kinda suffice, but I think they're a bit confusing/too long to be honest

That depends on whether you think submissive_young should be tagged on posts where both characters are the same age. I think both sets of tags could work, with one being implied by the other.

wat8548 said:
That depends on whether you think submissive_young should be tagged on posts where both characters are the same age. I think both sets of tags could work, with one being implied by the other.

Yeah I think implicating between these is best.

If both characters are cubs, all I gotta do is tag both dominant_cub and submissive_cub. If there is enough power-exchange visual cue.

The same way one would tag dominant_male with submissive_female.

While tagging though, I got curious, should we also have a submissive_older or submissive_adult tag, for standardization?

m3g4p0n1 said:
While tagging though, I got curious, should we also have a submissive_older or submissive_adult tag, for standardization?

This begs the question of: do you think there should be an antonym tag for young? Should tagging age on every post be mandatory in the same way gender is? Currently there's an assumption that every character in a post is an adult unless explicitly stated otherwise, and I dislike tagging non-exceptions on principle (similar to how we got rid of the uncut tag a while back).

So the logical conclusion of such a tag would be that it should be applied to the vast majority of bdsm -young, which doesn't seem like a productive use of tagging time. If it should only be applied in cases of age difference, that should be made explicit in the tag name itself. Otherwise you end up with the disaster area that is age_difference solo.

If we want to head that way, a mere full antonym for young wouldn't be enough. I like the disambiguated mature tag, but going to that direction it would be also good to have something like elderly and unborn-or-something.

urielfrys said:
If we want to head that way, a mere full antonym for young wouldn't be enough. I like the disambiguated mature tag, but going to that direction it would be also good to have something like elderly and unborn-or-something.

We have old. Nobody uses it because people insist on incorrectly using the older_* tags instead. mature and adult have to stay invalid because they routinely get tagged on any Explicit post, including ones with only young characters in them.

The bulk update request #3866 has been rejected.

remove implication cub_domination (0) -> young_domination (0)
remove alias cubdom (0) -> cub_domination (0)
remove alias cub_dom (0) -> cub_domination (0)

Reason:

Removing current aliases and implications, so I can alias them to a disambiguation tag.
I will try to work on specifying better tags on their respective wikis.

Edit 1: Reworking BUR as per a discord conversation that changed my opinion on the topic.
Do not approve yet.

Edit 2: BUR Rework done, unaliasing above tags so we can properly change the following ones in Part 2.

As per a discord converstation to be quoted in later posts, aliasing cub_domination and young_domination to dominant_cub and dominant_young might give enough psychological change to users once they see the alias, that they will think about using either dominant_young, or submissive_young in a proper way.

It was said that it's easier than setting up a disambiguation tag.

Part2
alias young_dom_older_sub -> younger_dom_older_sub
imply younger_dom_older_sub -> age_difference
imply older_dom_younger_sub -> age_difference

alias cub_domination -> dominant_cub
alias cubdom -> dominant_cub
alias cub_dom -> dominant_cub
alias cub_dom_small_sub -> dominant_cub

alias young_domination -> dominant_young
alias younger_dom -> dominant_young
alias youngdom -> dominant_young


imply dominant_cub -> cub
imply dominant_cub -> dominant_young
imply dominant_young -> young

imply submissive_cub -> cub
imply submissive_cub -> submissive_young
imply submisive_young -> young

imply cub_dominating_cub -> dominant_cub
imply cub_dominating_cub -> submissive_cub
imply cub_dominating_cub -> young_dominating_young

imply young_dominating_young -> dominant_young
imply young_dominating_young -> submissive_young
imply young_dominating_young -> young_on_young


EDIT: The bulk update request #3866 (forum #353935) has been rejected by @slyroon.

Updated by auto moderator

Now that I think about it, I could have chosen to alias both cub_domination and young_domination to only young_domination_(disambiguation), would that be better?

The bulk update request #3869 has been rejected.

remove alias cub_on_cub (0) -> cub (0)

Reason:

Since we are on this topic, I'd like to request this alias removal. Cub_on_cub shouldn't be aliased to cub, the same way young_on_young isn't aliased to young.
I believe there are ways to search cub_on_cub content with proper tag search, but I can't think of one at the moment, and I don't see why cub_on_cub would be hurtful, it could just imply cub instead =/

Currently, there must be differente tags for young and cub stuff. Because young means both cub and nont_furry, while cub is only furry.
a cub could be on another cub(cub_on_cub), but a cub could be on another non_furry species(cub_on_young).

Of course, I could simply search young_on_young -not_furry -not_furry_focus -human, but I still feel having a cub_on_cub tag would be much simpler.

Part 2: Imply cub_on_cub -> cub

EDIT: The bulk update request #3869 (forum #353948) has been rejected by @m3g4p0n1.

Updated by auto moderator

m3g4p0n1 said:

The bulk update request #3866 has been rejected.

remove implication cub_domination (0) -> young_domination (0)
remove alias cubdom (0) -> cub_domination (0)
remove alias cub_dom (0) -> cub_domination (0)

Reason: Removing current aliases and implications, so I can alias them to a disambiguation tag.
I will try to work on specifying better tags on their respective wikis.

Edit 1: Reworking BUR as per a discord conversation that changed my opinion on the topic.
Do not approve yet.

Edit 2: BUR Rework done, unaliasing above tags so we can properly change the following ones in Part 2.

As per a discord converstation to be quoted in later posts, aliasing cub_domination and young_domination to dominant_cub and dominant_young might give enough psychological change to users once they see the alias, that they will think about using either dominant_young, or submissive_young in a proper way.

It was said that it's easier than setting up a disambiguation tag.

Part2
alias young_dom_older_sub -> younger_dom_older_sub
imply younger_dom_older_sub -> age_difference
imply older_dom_younger_sub -> age_difference

alias cub_domination -> dominant_cub
alias cubdom -> dominant_cub
alias cub_dom -> dominant_cub
alias cub_dom_small_sub -> dominant_cub

alias young_domination -> dominant_young
alias younger_dom -> dominant_young
alias youngdom -> dominant_young


imply dominant_cub -> cub
imply dominant_cub -> dominant_young
imply dominant_young -> young

imply submissive_cub -> cub
imply submissive_cub -> submissive_young
imply submisive_young -> young

imply cub_dominating_cub -> dominant_cub
imply cub_dominating_cub -> submissive_cub
imply cub_dominating_cub -> young_dominating_young

imply young_dominating_young -> dominant_young
imply young_dominating_young -> submissive_young
imply young_dominating_young -> young_on_young


BUR #3866 and the following Part 2 were changed, reflecting a discord discussion.

Discord conversation
m3g4p0n1 — 18:06
 >I made a wiki for cub_domination_(disambiguation) and young_domination_(disambiguation), and created some tags in there that I believe could be useful too, feedback on the formatting would be welcome.

TheVileOne — 18:06
 >Why do we need disambiguation pages for young_domination? Every other domination tag just gets aliased to dominant_x 

m3g4p0n1 — 18:07
 >young domination could either mean dominant_young or submissive_young, which is ambiguous.
 >I wasn't aware that's how it was done to other dominant tags, but I think it's better this way, as long as someone is willing to disambiguate them.

TheVileOne — 18:08
 >So could every other domination tag that got aliased. It is why they got aliased. 

m3g4p0n1 — 18:12
 >Fair, but isn't it capable of causing mistags, for instace: posts with a male being dominated, but it's tagged with dominant_male because of this alias.

 >Sure, fixing mistags ocassionaly caused by an alias is also a relatively easy job. But having a disambiguation tag seems more organized than mixing things up on a already valid tag. Specially since it isn't guaranteed someone will keep giving a look in these tag projects.
 >Specially taking into account that, as time passes, more and more images of every content will exist, which will make backwards fixing more bothersome. 
Having a "disambiguation folder" just feels better for future proofing

TheVileOne — 18:13
 >Ultimately it will add more work than just having to correct some mistags.
 >There needs to be people willing to clean out the disambiguation, and there will be more content in the disambiguation tag than there will be mistags.

m3g4p0n1 — 18:15
 >Fair, but there is still a chance there will be more mistags than there would be tags to disambiguate.

 >For example, who would be willing to go through 35k images of dominant_male to see which one was mistagged?
 >We could rely on casual users fixing those, but it doesn't seem like a good way to go over it

TheVileOne — 18:16
 >The question becomes do we have to. If it becomes problematic just to find the mistags, then they can't be doing much harm in the tag.

m3g4p0n1 — 18:19
 >I'm not taking into account wether a tag is problematic to find or not, I'm just thinking logically, organization wise. Cub and you domination are just niche tags that are nice to have.

 >I don't know how to properly argue on my stand of keeping the disambiguation tag, I just feel that having a tag to disambiguate is always better than having a mistag among many other tags.
 >Just like bad uploaders with their copypasted tags, I believe that "Lacking tags is better than wrong tags"

TheVileOne — 18:20
 >We were trying to stray away from disambiguation tags in general unless absolutely necessary. I haven't seen a slowdown in people trying to add new disambiguations though.

DubsTheFox — 18:20
 >disambiguation tags shouldn't be used at all

m3g4p0n1 — 18:21
 >I wasn't aware of it, I thought disambiguation tags where a great tool for organizating the archive

DubsTheFox — 18:21
 >all disambiguation should be in in the invalid category. They are just not all in it, yet.

m3g4p0n1 — 18:22
 >the moment i created the disambiguation tag it already got changed into the invalid category though.

TheVileOne — 18:22
 >We're discussing creating new disambiguations, not using disambiguations.
 
m3g4p0n1 — 18:22
 >Did you mean aliasing them to invalid_tag?

cat kitty cat cat kitty cat cat — 18:23
https://e621.net/tag_type_versions?search%5Btag%5D=cub_domination_%28disambiguation%29

DubsTheFox — 18:23
 >ah. Didn't read. Just saw "using disambiguation tags can be ok" :dogkek:

m3g4p0n1 — 18:23
 >Yeah, we're talking about wether it's best to create/use the already created youngdomination(disambiguation), or alias young_domination to dominant_young, which could cause future mistags :p

TheVileOne — 18:23
 >I feel that having a disambiguation for every x_domination tag would be excessive.

m3g4p0n1 — 18:23
(replying to 'cat kitty cat cat kitty cat cat')
 >By the way, thank you for being quick on it! ^^

m3g4p0n1 — 18:24
 >Oh no, not every domination tag, no, at least not at the same time.
 >I just proposed this specific disambiguation because that's what I feel like I would be good at working at at the moment
as in, I'm willing to take this resposability of disambiguating

TheVileOne — 18:24
 >It is up there in frustrating annoyances when I want to find something quickly and I accidentally search for a disambiguated tag by mistake.

m3g4p0n1 — 18:24
 >I wouldn't want to disambiguate every ambiguous thing just for the sake of it, that'd be counter-produtive in my logical way of thinking

TheVileOne — 18:31
 >going out of our way to unalias those domination tags just for the sake of disambiguating seems unnecessary. You should probably look into if people actually are misuing the tags first. Even with the cum dom tag, are people misusing it?
 >You would be surprise how changing the name of a tag can influence behavior. It doesn't always work though as I swear some people use third part ytools or something to tag their stuff and those things don't know when something gets changed to another tag.

m3g4p0n1 — 18:35
 >Hm, as in, 
  >>someone types younger_domination, and they see the tag has been aliased to dominant_young.
  >>If they're paying some attention, they will use submissive_young instead of the aliased one

 >Is that what you mean?

TheVileOne — 18:35
 >Yes.

m3g4p0n1 — 18:35
 >Makes sense to me, it's a fairly obvious tag when you invert the words. I will change my proposed bur

m3g4p0n1 — 18:48
 >just like cub implies young, should submissive_cub imply submissive_young ?

scaliespe — 18:49
 >yes

I attempted to create a Tagging Project on tagme.dev to make things easier, manual editing keeps pushing me to fill in all possible TWYS tags, which isn't exactly bad, but does slow down the process.

It feels a bit clunky though, too many options, any suggestions to clean it up?

https://tagme.dev/projects/cubyoungdomdis

The bulk update request #5984 is active.

create alias dominant_cub (1) -> dominant_young (2414)
create alias cub_dominating_cub (0) -> young_dominating_young (137)
create implication young_dominating_young (137) -> dominant_young (2414)
create implication young_dominating_young (137) -> submissive_young (271)
create implication young_dominating_young (137) -> young_on_young (9809)

Reason: Now that the cub tag is finally on the way out and the BUR above has been superseded, some cleanup of the remaining dom/sub cub tags.

EDIT: The bulk update request #5984 (forum #383519) has been approved by @slyroon.

Updated by auto moderator

The implications should probably be changed to aliases, to avoid legitimizing more x_verbing_y tags.

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