Topic: Holding_object BUR2

The bulk update request #3168 is pending approval.

Reason: Excuse me. I can't proofread it myself, so there may be some strange points.

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I would say there is a large difference between a staff and a wand. A wand is a small magical rod shaped object meanwhile a staff is a longer object that can be used for magic, but also as a weapon or as an aid in walking.

Do we really need the full implication chain holding_wine_glass -> holding_drinking_glass -> holding_glass_cup -> holding_glass_container -> holding_glass? Meanwhile holding_coffee_mug is implicated directly to holding_object despite holding_mug already existing? Also holding_video_games is a very unnatural name for a tag - I'd prefer holding_console (or holding_game_console if necessary).

create implication holding_animal (71) -> holding_object (104998)

Does an animal really count as an "object"? We also have a holding_character tag

wat8548 said:
Do we really need the full implication chain holding_wine_glass -> holding_drinking_glass -> holding_glass_cup -> holding_glass_container -> holding_glass? Meanwhile holding_coffee_mug is implicated directly to holding_object despite holding_mug already existing? Also holding_video_games is a very unnatural name for a tag - I'd prefer holding_console (or holding_game_console if necessary).

The wine glass stuff is overkill for me, and I'm not sure we really need a dedicated tag for holding_coffee_mug (maybe the whole coffee_mug tag could be axed). [[holding_video_games does sound weird to me too, but IMO it'd be fine if it's singular. "video game" could also refer to a physical CD or cartridge.

While we're at it, we might as well consider holding_building -> holding_object and holding_planet (yes, that is a thing, the macro community is wild) -> holding_object, though the last one is a bit of a stretch

drag007 said:
The bulk update request #3168 is pending approval.

create implication holding_marker (253) -> holding_object (228527)
create implication holding_dagger (550) -> holding_melee_weapon (15626)
create implication holding_game_boy (133) -> holding_video_game (0)
create implication holding_video_game (0) -> holding_object (228527)
create implication holding_wand (515) -> holding_object (228527)
create alias holding_each_other (374) -> embrace (0)
create implication holding_reins (162) -> holding_object (228527)
create implication holding_polearm (2416) -> holding_melee_weapon (15626)
create implication holding_net (121) -> holding_object (228527)
create implication holding_ink_brush (84) -> holding_brush (918)
create implication holding_pole (258) -> holding_object (228527)
create implication holding_wine_glass (578) -> holding_glass_container (0)
create implication holding_glass_container (0) -> holding_container (17655)
create implication holding_glass_container (0) -> holding_glass (3152)
create implication holding_nintendo_switch (199) -> holding_video_game (0)
create implication holding_animal (194) -> holding_character (3968)
create implication holding_bikini_top (214) -> holding_bikini (45)
create implication holding_pool_toy (84) -> holding_object (228527)
create alias holding_coffee_mug (286) -> holding_mug (2004)
create implication holding_photo (227) -> holding_object (228527)

create implication holding_marker (120) -> holding_object (105023)
create implication holding_dagger (117) -> holding_melee_weapon (298)
create implication holding_game_boy (109) -> holding_video_games (0) >> create implication holding_game_boy (109) -> holding_video_game (0)
create implication holding_video_games (0) -> holding_object (105023) >> create implication holding_video_game (0) -> holding_object (105023)
create implication holding_wand (107) -> holding_staff (715)
create implication wand (1589) -> staff (6888)
create alias holding_each_other (104) -> embrace (34321)
create implication holding_reins (98) -> holding_object (105023)
create implication holding_polearm (91) -> holding_melee_weapon (298)
create implication holding_paintbrush (87) -> holding_brush (373) # duplicate of implication #21354
create implication holding_net (83) -> holding_object (105023)
create implication holding_ink_brush (81) -> holding_brush (373)
create implication holding_pole (77) -> holding_object (105023)
create implication holding_wine_glass (72) -> holding_drinking_glass (0)
create implication holding_drinking_glass (0) -> holding_glass_cup (0)
create implication holding_glass_cup (0) -> holding_cup (3592)
create implication holding_glass_cup (0) -> holding_glass_container (0) >> create implication holding_wine_glass (72) -> holding_glass_container (0)
create implication holding_glass_container (0) -> holding_container (927)
create implication holding_glass_container (0) -> holding_glass (1731)
create implication holding_nintendo_switch (72) -> holding_video_games (0) >>create implication holding_nintendo_switch (72) -> holding_video_game (0)
create implication holding_animal (71) -> holding_object (105023) >> create implication holding_animal (71) -> holding_character (2680)
create implication holding_bikini_top (70) -> holding_bikini (13)
create implication holding_pool_toy (69) -> holding_object (105023)
create implication holding_coffee_mug (65) -> holding_object (105023) >> create alias holding_coffee_mug (65) -> holding_mug (383)
create implication holding_photo (63) -> holding_object (105023)

Fixed. Please correct me if I am still wrong.

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drag007 said:
[List of changes]

Fixed. Please correct me if I am still wrong.

I don't think holding_animal should implicate holding_character, as sometimes the animal being held clearly is not meant to be a character. For instance:
https://e621.net/posts/458011

In this picture, the dragon is holding an animal in its mouth (a fish), but it is not holding a character.

monroethelizard said:
I don't think holding_animal should implicate holding_character, as sometimes the animal being held clearly is not meant to be a character. For instance:
https://e621.net/posts/458011

In this picture, the dragon is holding an animal in its mouth (a fish), but it is not holding a character.

ferals are characters too

dubsthefox said:
ferals are characters too

That is true. However, for many of the posts which might be tagged "holding_animal", the animal being held is not characterised in any meaningful way. For instance:
https://e621.net/posts/3091032
https://e621.net/posts/1147550

It does not make sense to implicate holding_character, because treating all of these animals as characters would involve changing many other tags in counterintuitive ways. In the first post above, the one of the otter holding the two fish, we would need to add the tags: trio, group, blue_body, blue_scales, ambiguous_gender, nude, and more. It would make it much harder to meaningfully search for images, when most users will consider this otter picture to be "solo" with just one character who is mostly nude (not fully nude, like the fish are).