The bulk update request #1453 is active.

remove alias latex (57594) -> rubber (11)

Reason: It’s about time we discuss this (in my opinion) major error on e621.

Ever since ‘latex’ has been aliased to ‘rubber’, it has caused some confusion among several people and with tagging posts properly. The main issue is the fact that we never acknowledged the true definitions of what ‘latex’ and ‘rubber’ are. Even when the original alias request was made on topic #889 about 9 years ago, barely anyone touched on this at all and the alias was implemented instantly without further discussion.

After spending some time on topic #31033 discussing the alias request from latex clothing to rubber clothing, where I posted some arguments about latex and rubber, I decided to start this forum where we can discuss the ‘latex’ -> ‘rubber’ issue in further detail.

In order to understand why, we need to take the true definitions of ‘latex’ and ‘rubber’ into account.

—————

Merriam Webster defines ‘latex’ and ‘rubber’ as the following:

Latex -
”a milky usually white fluid that is produced by cells of various seed plants (as of the milkweed, spurge, and poppy families) and is the source of rubber, gutta-percha, chicle, and balata.”

Rubber -
“an elastic substance that is obtained by coagulating the milky juice of any of various tropical plants (as of the genera Hevea and Ficus), is essentially a polymer of isoprene, and is prepared as sheets and then dried.”
and/or
“natural or synthetic rubber modified by chemical treatment to increase its useful properties (such as toughness and resistance to wear) and used especially in tires, electrical insulation, and waterproof materials.”

—————

Here is an interesting explanation I found online at https://info.unigloves.co.uk/blog/latex-vs-rubber-gloves

“Latex is a stable emulsion of polymer microparticles in an aqueous medium. It is found naturally, but synthetic latexes (or latices) can be made too.  It is the liquid form, usually before it is converted into a solid product.
Rubber is a durable, waterproof, elastic substance made from latex, either natural or synthetic.  This is usually the finished product or at the very least a solid intermediary.”


“The term ‘rubber’ refers to durable, waterproof and elastic material made from natural or synthetic latex. Where rubber is usually the finished product, latex refers to the liquid form; a stable emulsion of polymer microparticles in an aqueous solution. It can be found naturally or manufactured synthetically and is eventually processed into a solid (non-liquid) rubber product.”

—————

To summarize, latex is defined as a liquid substance while rubber is defined as the final solid product created from latex. The two substances are too different to even be regarded as the same. There is already a liquid_latex tag, but it isn’t enough to resolve this issue.

An implication would be a better solution, because rubber is made out of latex but latex is NOT made out of rubber. The latex tag can therefore also be used as a fallback tag if people are uncertain whether a post features ‘rubber’ (solid) or ‘latex’ (fluid).

If you have any arguments regarding this topic, please leave your comments. I’m in for a debate ;)

EDIT: The bulk update request #1453 (forum #318570) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

So, I dug up the old alias thread. https://e621.net/forum_topics/889

There's very little discussion going on in it, but this is also 9 years ago when there were much fewer active users. Regardless, my stance on the matter is by TWYS (Tag What You See), if a latex glove and a rubber glove look the same then having two tags would be redundant. If there are visual differences between latex and rubber products, feel free to cite them for me since I normally don't work with either...

siral_exan said:
So, I dug up the old alias thread. https://e621.net/forum_topics/889

There's very little discussion going on in it, but this is also 9 years ago when there were much fewer active users. Regardless, my stance on the matter is by TWYS (Tag What You See), if a latex glove and a rubber glove look the same then having two tags would be redundant. If there are visual differences between latex and rubber products, feel free to cite them for me since I normally don't work with either...

Someone had more or less the same question on topic #31033

i guess to continue off of that–if we say rubber is the solid form and latex is the liquid form....
then what is "latex clothing...?" clothing that's.. liquid latex? i don't see how anyone would be able to Visibly differentiate between "latex clothing" and "rubber clothing"

Here are some examples of latex/rubber clothing I found on e621 that can (hopefully) clarify the difference between latex (fluid) and rubber (solid) once the true definitions of them are taken into account.

—————

Clothing that can be classified as latex clothing:
post #2021458 post #1896629 post #2669857 post #2418074 post #2053320

In the examples above, you can see how the ‘clothing’ is of a liquid/gooey substance. You may think that this can also imply living latex, goo creature, latex transformation, liquid latex, etc. But as long as it is clear that latex is being used/shaped as a form of clothing on a character, the latex tag can be used.

—————

Clothing that can be classified as rubber clothing:
post #2958417 post #2742448 post #2669738 post #2958287 post #2915058

In the examples here, the clothing appears to be in a ‘solid’ state. There is no presence of goo or fluids that suggest the clothing/suit is out of (liquid) latex.

—————

An implication from ‘rubber’ to ‘latex’ would be helpful in this situation:

If it is unclear to determine whether something is latex or rubber, than the ‘latex’ tag can be used as a fallback.
Just like when one can’t determine what type of body a character has (xxx_scales, xxx_fur, xxx_feathers, xxx_skin, etc.) and an ‘xxx_body’ tag is used instead.

... The two are used pretty interchangably, aren't they? The only time the actual, functional difference between natural rubber latex, synthetic latex, and vinyl ever are brought up are in discussions of allergies, even in the local BDSM community where I live which is normally pretty adamant on specific terminology for things. I've seen plenty of solid things labelled as being made out of "natural latex", "natural rubber latex", and just plain "latex", so the liquid/solid thing doesn't really hold up as-used to me.

I don't care which way the alias goes, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking there's a functional way to tell the difference in art of them unless outright labelled within the image itself.

votp said:
... The two are used pretty interchangably, aren't they? The only time the actual, functional difference between natural rubber latex, synthetic latex, and vinyl ever are brought up are in discussions of allergies, even in the local BDSM community where I live which is normally pretty adamant on specific terminology for things. I've seen plenty of solid things labelled as being made out of "natural latex", "natural rubber latex", and just plain "latex", so the liquid/solid thing doesn't really hold up as-used to me.

I understand what you are saying regarding the different types of latex and rubber, but I’m only taking the main definitions of “latex” and “rubber” into account for this BUR and not the specific kinds. Regardless if the latex is natural or synthetic, it is by definition a liquid substance that is used to create rubber. So the final product you are eventually getting is rubber.

The link I mentioned earlier even states the following: “It [latex] can be found naturally or manufactured synthetically and is eventually processed into a solid (non-liquid) rubber product.”

I don't care which way the alias goes, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking there's a functional way to tell the difference in art of them unless outright labelled within the image itself.

I disagree with that comment.

Since e621 uses tags to describe each and every post as accurate as possible, each tag has a “function”. They make posts searchable for people, they can also be helpful for blacklisting posts, implicating or aliasing certain tags, etc.

The point I am mainly making is that the alias “latex” -> “rubber” was falsely implemented, because the two substances are different. The example posts of I showed previously illustrate my point.

Some might say that the liquid latex tag is already being used for the ‘fluid’ type, but it is not enough to solve the issue with the current alias.

Then again, if someone can’t distinguish “rubber” and “latex” from another or if a post doesn’t depict it clearly, the “latex” tag can then be used as a fallback tag. An implication “rubber” -> “latex” would make this method possible.

siral_exan said:
So, I dug up the old alias thread. https://e621.net/forum_topics/889

There's very little discussion going on in it, but this is also 9 years ago when there were much fewer active users. Regardless, my stance on the matter is by TWYS (Tag What You See), if a latex glove and a rubber glove look the same then having two tags would be redundant. If there are visual differences between latex and rubber products, feel free to cite them for me since I normally don't work with either...

ngl, I agree with OP. How do you/people not know or SEE the difference between latex and rubber?
latex has a shine to the material, the material you'd usually see in bondage for one example.
While rubber is a matted, no-gloss, material that doesn't give off the same shine.

latex and something like...doctor gloves, cleaning gloves (material) made out of rubber just don't look the same as latex.
I can see the difference just by seeing if it's shiny.

latex = shiny rubbery
rubber = matted rubbery.

zenith-pendragon said:
Someone had more or less the same question on topic #31033

Here are some examples of latex/rubber clothing I found on e621 that can (hopefully) clarify the difference between latex (fluid) and rubber (solid) once the true definitions of them are taken into account.

—————

Clothing that can be classified as latex clothing:
post #2021458 post #1896629 post #2669857 post #2418074 post #2053320

In the examples above, you can see how the ‘clothing’ is of a liquid/gooey substance. You may think that this can also imply living latex, goo creature, latex transformation, liquid latex, etc. But as long as it is clear that latex is being used/shaped as a form of clothing on a character, the latex tag can be used.

—————

Clothing that can be classified as rubber clothing:
post #2958417 post #2742448 post #2669738 post #2958287 post #2915058

In the examples here, the clothing appears to be in a ‘solid’ state. There is no presence of goo or fluids that suggest the clothing/suit is out of (liquid) latex.

—————

An implication from ‘rubber’ to ‘latex’ would be helpful in this situation:

If it is unclear to determine whether something is latex or rubber, than the ‘latex’ tag can be used as a fallback.
Just like when one can’t determine what type of body a character has (xxx_scales, xxx_fur, xxx_feathers, xxx_skin, etc.) and an ‘xxx_body’ tag is used instead.

......I was agreeing with ya till I saw your examples dude...from my previous statement...that all looks like latex to me

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

closetpossum said:
ngl, I agree with OP. How do you/people not know or SEE the difference between latex and rubber?
latex has a shine to the material, the material you'd usually see in bondage for one example.
While rubber is a matted, no-gloss, material that doesn't give off the same shine.

latex and something like...doctor gloves, cleaning gloves (material) made out of rubber just don't look the same as latex.
I can see the difference just by seeing if it's shiny.

latex = shiny rubbery
rubber = matted rubbery.

Because as an EMR, we're told not to work with latex or rubber gloves because they can cause allergic reactions with our patients. And with work around the house, I generally use sturdier material for gloves, something with grip like cloth or (fake) leather, and the disposable gloves I do use work well enough to keep chemicals from touching my hands. I've seen rubber or latex gloves, but I've never worked with them long enough to see/know the difference.

And I don't mean to sound like I took offense to the question, this is exactly why I asked for some citations to back up the claim that latex isn't rubber. I truly do not know any difference in the materials.

Ever seen PVC? Shit's shiny too. Gloss or not, which is a feature of the finish rather than the raw material itself, something's shininess or lack thereoff is not a good measure for defining what a material is.

closetpossum said:
ngl, I agree with OP. How do you/people not know or SEE the difference between latex and rubber?
latex has a shine to the material, the material you'd usually see in bondage for one example.
While rubber is a matted, no-gloss, material that doesn't give off the same shine.

latex and something like...doctor gloves, cleaning gloves (material) made out of rubber just don't look the same as latex.
I can see the difference just by seeing if it's shiny.

latex = shiny rubbery
rubber = matted rubbery.

votp said:
Ever seen PVC? Shit's shiny too. Gloss or not, which is a feature of the finish rather than the raw material itself, something's shininess or lack thereoff is not a good measure for defining what a material is.

Indeed. Shine or gloss does not determine whether a material is latex or rubber. A helpful rule-of-thumb is to determine if a character is wearing something that is made of some liquid/gooey material or if a clothing item is being formed by some liquid/goo. If so, then “latex” applies.

post #2021458 post #2053320

The two examples (of latex) here depict this clearly.

If a character is wearing a clothing item that appears to be solid or if there is no presence of liquid/goo in the formation of the clothing, then “rubber” applies.

post #2958417 post #2669738

In the two examples (of rubber) above, there is no goo or liquid in sight and the clothing appears to be solid.

siral_exan said:
Because as an EMR, we're told not to work with latex or rubber gloves because they can cause allergic reactions with our patients. And with work around the house, I generally use sturdier material for gloves, something with grip like cloth or (fake) leather, and the disposable gloves I do use work well enough to keep chemicals from touching my hands. I've seen rubber or latex gloves, but I've never worked with them long enough to see/know the difference.

And I don't mean to sound like I took offense to the question, this is exactly why I asked for some citations to back up the claim that latex isn't rubber. I truly do not know any difference in the materials.

I know what you mean. There are many types of natural and synthetic latex/rubber that are being used to manufacture different “rubber” gloves. I myself use nitrile rubber gloves. Not because I’m allergic to rubber/latex. I just find them more sturdy.

With regards to tagging, there is no point in being overspecific with the different kinds of rubber (PVC, vinyl, nitrile, neoprene, polyisoprene, etc.), since they are all rubber anyway (maybe aliasing then all to rubber will be ideal). We just need to distinguish “latex” from “rubber”, because the two are different substances by true definition.

I think you have a point, but my only issue is with having rubber imply latex, as you suggested. It may make sense in the end, as any rubber that you see might be latex rubber - there’s not really any way that I know of to tell the difference between latex rubber and synthetic rubber in a drawing. However, in order to distinguish the liquid latex clothing from solid rubber, we may have to keep them as separate tags. Having rubber imply latex will fill the latex tag with both liquid and solid forms, leaving no way to search only for the liquid form. The alternative, if we are to keep that implication, would be to set up a series of liquid_latex_clothing tags for the various articles of clothing to match the current set of rubber clothing tags, and have both rubber clothing and liquid latex clothing imply latex clothing.

scaliespe said:
I think you have a point, but my only issue is with having rubber imply latex, as you suggested. It may make sense in the end, as any rubber that you see might be latex rubber - there’s not really any way that I know of to tell the difference between latex rubber and synthetic rubber in a drawing. However, in order to distinguish the liquid latex clothing from solid rubber, we may have to keep them as separate tags. Having rubber imply latex will fill the latex tag with both liquid and solid forms, leaving no way to search only for the liquid form. The alternative, if we are to keep that implication, would be to set up a series of liquid_latex_clothing tags for the various articles of clothing to match the current set of rubber clothing tags, and have both rubber clothing and liquid latex clothing imply latex clothing.

I thought so. Even I was thinking before that an implication would make things unclear. Just needed to be certain. Thanks for pointing that out.

In that case it’s best to keep “latex” and “rubber” as separate tags (if the request gets approved). An implication and a series of “liquid_latex_clothing” tags will make things even more complicated than they already are.

If people get confused, they can either refer to the wiki pages or leave the tagging duty to someone else.

siral_exan said:
Because as an EMR, we're told not to work with latex or rubber gloves because they can cause allergic reactions with our patients. And with work around the house, I generally use sturdier material for gloves, something with grip like cloth or (fake) leather, and the disposable gloves I do use work well enough to keep chemicals from touching my hands. I've seen rubber or latex gloves, but I've never worked with them long enough to see/know the difference.

And I don't mean to sound like I took offense to the question, this is exactly why I asked for some citations to back up the claim that latex isn't rubber. I truly do not know any difference in the materials.

rubber can cause an allergic reaction? and there's such thing as FAKE rubber?
gee, yer opening my eyes.
I'm ignorant of latex and rubber

zenith-pendragon said:
I thought so. Even I was thinking before that an implication would make things unclear. Just needed to be certain. Thanks for pointing that out.

In that case it’s best to keep “latex” and “rubber” as separate tags (if the request gets approved). An implication and a series of “liquid_latex_clothing” tags will make things even more complicated than they already are.

If people get confused, they can either refer to the wiki pages or leave the tagging duty to someone else.

Right, that makes sense.

Now, my last concern, I suppose, is that I would expect there to be a lot of mistagging here. The word latex is commonly used to refer to latex rubber - that is, latex in its solid, rubberized state. So, I’m wondering if it might be best to use liquid_latex as the actual tag to make clear that we’re referring to the liquid, non-rubberized substance, and perhaps make latex into a disambiguation tag that can direct people either to liquid latex or to rubber.

This is just under the assumption that people will frequently use the tag incorrectly, however. Maybe they won’t, after all. Better safe than sorry, though? I’m not sure.

scaliespe said:
So, I’m wondering if it might be best to use liquid_latex as the actual tag to make clear that we’re referring to the liquid, non-rubberized substance, and perhaps make latex into a disambiguation tag that can direct people either to liquid latex or to rubber.

That sounds like a great idea! In that case “latex” is still used as a fallback/blanket tag (as I was suggesting), but the difference between “rubber” and “(liquid) latex” is still maintained. Awesome!

If the request “remove alias latex -> rubber” will be approved, then the following BUR must be implemented soon after:
create implication rubber -> latex
create implication liquid_latex -> latex

scaliespe said:
This is just under the assumption that people will frequently use the tag incorrectly, however. Maybe they won’t, after all. Better safe than sorry, though? I’m not sure.

Indeed. Even if it’s confusing for one, the wiki pages will come in handy.

The bulk update request #1453 (forum #318570) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

I've eliminated the alias for the time being (no harm in removing an alias).

Let's discuss what to do about these tags now. I still hold my stance from 9 years ago that reliably tagging the difference between these isn't the most practical on our website.

There are two big hurdles to overcome.
1. From a strictly visual standpoint, how does one tell the difference between rubber and liquid latex, or latex and rubber when they are ambiguous looking?
2. Will the difference be intuitive for all users? Expecting users to just "learn the proper way" when it's not obvious is just not a reasonable expectation.

Lastly, I'm not making any more disambiguation tags for things that don't absolutely need them. They just turn into neglected garbage fires.

I heartily await any and all input!

rainbow_dash said:
I've eliminated the alias for the time being (no harm in removing an alias).

Let's discuss what to do about these tags now. I still hold my stance from 9 years ago that reliably tagging the difference between these isn't the most practical on our website.

There are two big hurdles to overcome.
1. From a strictly visual standpoint, how does one tell the difference between rubber and liquid latex, or latex and rubber when they are ambiguous looking?
2. Will the difference be intuitive for all users? Expecting users to just "learn the proper way" when it's not obvious is just not a reasonable expectation.

Lastly, I'm not making any more disambiguation tags for things that don't absolutely need them. They just turn into neglected garbage fires.

I heartily await any and all input!

Well, if we can make well written wikis for the tags that state their differences, that would be a step in the right direction. However, I know next to nothing about the visual differences between latex and rubber, so someone more fluent with the materials should write it.

rainbow_dash said:
I've eliminated the alias for the time being (no harm in removing an alias).

Let's discuss what to do about these tags now. I still hold my stance from 9 years ago that reliably tagging the difference between these isn't the most practical on our website.

There are two big hurdles to overcome.
1. From a strictly visual standpoint, how does one tell the difference between rubber and liquid latex, or latex and rubber when they are ambiguous looking?
2. Will the difference be intuitive for all users? Expecting users to just "learn the proper way" when it's not obvious is just not a reasonable expectation.

Lastly, I'm not making any more disambiguation tags for things that don't absolutely need them. They just turn into neglected garbage fires.

I heartily await any and all input!

I had always thought we should just use the term “latex” to refer to rubber clothing of any kind, as that’s simply the term I’ve always heard used in reference to fetish clothing. And I’ve heard people say they have a “latex fetish,” but I’ve never heard someone say “rubber fetish.”

Using rubber as a base tag for all of these also has the disadvantage of the fact that the word is also used as slang for a condom, or an alternative name for an eraser, which might also cause some mistagging. Aliasing it to latex instead might make it clear that the tag is for clothing.

Technically, not all rubber clothing, or even all rubber clothing used specifically within the fetish subculture is actually made of latex. Some of it is made of PVC. But, there’s no way to tell the difference between natural latex rubber and PVC clothing in an image, at least as far as I can tell. This doesn’t make rubber the more accurate term, though, since PVC isn’t actually rubber either—technically, it’s plastic.

Just to prove that latex has the stronger association with clothing, here are three image search results:

Rubber: rubber bands, car tires, rolls of neoprene.

PVC: pipes. Lots of pipes.

Latex: nothing but women in latex clothing.

With that being said, my preferred solution would be to alias rubber_clothing, rubber_suit, etc. to their latex counterparts, and have the liquid_latex tags imply their regular latex counterparts.

Can we at least use this opportunity to fix the fact that latex_boots implies rubber_boots but wellington_boots is aliased to rubber_boots, despite not resembling latex in any way?

I'm also here to object - in actual real-world use, I've always heard it called a "latex" fetish; the long black elbow gloves I own were labeled as "latex" and bought from a store that sells "latex" clothing. In fact, I came on the forums (which I rarely do) specifically because I was wondering "hey, what the hell happened to the latex = rubber alias?" because I immediately noticed it missing.

Basically, latex is frequently used as a synonym for *natural* rubber, which is - after all - made from latex. I think if we start actually using 'latex' and 'rubber' differently, it's going to be a constaint tag-wrangling pain as users continue to tag stuff as latex, which is after all what they actually call in in day-to-day life, and have to have it explained to them "actually, latex is the doctor fluid, you're thinking of latex's monster rubber"

I agree that the inconsistent use of liquid_latex and other tags is an issue; I've always struggled with "hey, how should I tag or search for stuff in a way that distinguishes Tanraak's work [see my avatar for example] and stuff like it, from something that merely features a dude wearing latex thigh-highs"?) but I don't think this solves the problem and is likely to just create more confusion in the future.

(I'm not actually sure this problem is solvable - there's no obvious boundary between "does this character appear to have latex skin" vs. "is this character just wearing a well-made latex bodysuit" that would let it be used as a dividing line without resorting to Lore. I think the most TWYS solution to this would be to have a specific tag for "fully covered in latex with no skin showing" [haven't thought of a good name yet], and also retain the liquid_latex tag to distinguish situations where latex is visibly drippy)

victoria_oblong said:
I'm also here to object - in actual real-world use, I've always heard it called a "latex" fetish; the long black elbow gloves I own were labeled as "latex" and bought from a store that sells "latex" clothing. In fact, I came on the forums (which I rarely do) specifically because I was wondering "hey, what the hell happened to the latex = rubber alias?" because I immediately noticed it missing.

Basically, latex is frequently used as a synonym for *natural* rubber, which is - after all - made from latex. I think if we start actually using 'latex' and 'rubber' differently, it's going to be a constaint tag-wrangling pain as users continue to tag stuff as latex, which is after all what they actually call in in day-to-day life, and have to have it explained to them "actually, latex is the doctor fluid, you're thinking of latex's monster rubber"

I agree that the inconsistent use of liquid_latex and other tags is an issue; I've always struggled with "hey, how should I tag or search for stuff in a way that distinguishes Tanraak's work [see my avatar for example] and stuff like it, from something that merely features a dude wearing latex thigh-highs"?) but I don't think this solves the problem and is likely to just create more confusion in the future.

(I'm not actually sure this problem is solvable - there's no obvious boundary between "does this character appear to have latex skin" vs. "is this character just wearing a well-made latex bodysuit" that would let it be used as a dividing line without resorting to Lore. I think the most TWYS solution to this would be to have a specific tag for "fully covered in latex with no skin showing" [haven't thought of a good name yet], and also retain the liquid_latex tag to distinguish situations where latex is visibly drippy)

I think I have to agree with this.

Back to my last comment, though, I wonder if it would be better to keep latex and rubber separate. Latex just for the fetish gear, and rubber for strictly utilitarian stuff. For example, we call those disposable medical gloves or dishwashing gloves “rubber gloves,” and reserve the term “latex gloves” for the kind used in latex fetishes/BDSM, which look quite different. Same for the boots. Rain boots and stuff are rubber; fetishwear is latex.

Of course, in reality, they are both rubber, but I think making a distinction between them would be more useful for people to find what they want. I doubt that most people searching for latex_gloves want to see medical gloves.

scaliespe said:
Back to my last comment, though, I wonder if it would be better to keep latex and rubber separate. Latex just for the fetish gear, and rubber for strictly utilitarian stuff. For example, we call those disposable medical gloves or dishwashing gloves “rubber gloves,” and reserve the term “latex gloves” for the kind used in latex fetishes/BDSM, which look quite different. Same for the boots. Rain boots and stuff are rubber; fetishwear is latex.

That's not really true in my experience.
I've heard "latex gloves" to mean disposable medical gloves. Example
Meanwhile, "rubber gloves" usually means thicker, more protective material. Example

That might be the only exception, though.
I don't have a strong opinion on this matter, but I can get behind the "latex is fetishized, rubber isn't" principle.
The only question that remains is how much non-fetish rubber clothing is there on the site, and whether maintaining this distinction is worth the hassle.

bitwolfy said:
That's not really true in my experience.
I've heard "latex gloves" to mean disposable medical gloves. Example
Meanwhile, "rubber gloves" usually means thicker, more protective material. Example

That might be the only exception, though.
I don't have a strong opinion on this matter, but I can get behind the "latex is fetishized, rubber isn't" principle.
The only question that remains is how much non-fetish rubber clothing is there on the site, and whether maintaining this distinction is worth the hassle.

"No, the counter is granite."
"The counter is clearly marble."
"You're both wrong, it's resin!"
"... It just looks like stone, tag it as stone."

Honestly, the gloves and boots thing fits in with the hazmat suit thing I've noticed when it comes to rubber. Rubber (garment) is generally only used in a heavy-duty/bulky/industrial/chemical-resistant manner. Should I go poll BDSM communities to see if it's used in them... well... at all? Because I could probably go do that, I know a few if we really want to just have that be used as the solution.

I had written out a fairly detailed reply, but my browser decided to crash near the end of writing it, so I’m going to keep this more brief…

Regarding gloves, I think we can actually have three categories. Rubber, as bitWolfy said, seems to be more commonly associated with heavy-duty materials. Medical gloves are left in limbo by this latex/rubber distinction I’ve suggested, since they are still quite different from dominatrix-style gloves, and are utilitarian rather than fetishistic in nature, but so are not the heavy-duty rubber gloves I envision when someone says “rubber gloves.” So I think having a separate tag just for those types of gloves would be useful. I’m somewhat surprised we don’t already have a distinct tag for it, considering how common they are, but the old medical_gloves -> latex_gloves alias would explain that to some extent.

nurse gloves turns up five pages of results, with doctor gloves giving another three pages. The vast majority of these are medical gloves. Keeping these in the same tag as the BDSM-style fetish gloves does not really make sense to me. They are very different. And in this case, we have two quite different fetishes interacting under one tag. For example, post #1369326 - nurse fetish, latex_gloves, but nothing to do with BDSM themes or typical latex fetish.

Note that changing the above searches to latex_gloves drops the search results down to about one page each. I suppose this just means that most people are tagging those gloves as gloves without mentioning latex.

So, if we make a separate tag for those, I think medical_gloves, disposable_gloves, or nitrile_gloves would work. I say nitrile because the vast majority of those medical gloves in reality are nitrile rather than latex due to latex allergies. I think I would prefer one of the latter two just because they are sometimes seen in contexts outside of medicine (worn by a scientist, for example), so medical_gloves may be a misnomer in some cases.

It’s fairly hard to find rubber gloves of the utilitarian variety due, again, to the fact that they are mixed in with all the other rubber gloves, but searching cleaning gloves nets a few good examples, ie. post #664904 - you can find quite a bit more under the yellow_gloves tag that were not properly tagged as latex_gloves or cleaning just due to the fact that, for whatever reason, rubber cleaning gloves always seem to be yellow. post #2877472 is an example of one I found there that didn’t come up in my other searches.

If you like to keep the simple “latex fetish/rubber non-fetish” binary distinction, regardless of the thickness of the material, we could even have both cleaning_gloves and nitrile_gloves or disposable_gloves imply rubber_gloves while still leaving latex_gloves separate. I do think those disposable nitrile gloves deserve their own tag at least, though, due to how common they are.

So, tl;dr: I think there are enough images on the site and enough difference between these types of gloves for it to be worthwhile to differentiate them. Fortunately, it’ll be easier still when it comes to the other clothing articles, like boots - gloves are simply complicated by the disposable kind.

(That still wasn’t very brief… sorry)

scaliespe said:
you can find quite a bit more under the yellow_gloves tag that were not properly tagged as latex_gloves or cleaning just due to the fact that, for whatever reason, rubber cleaning gloves always seem to be yellow. post #2877472 is an example of one I found there that didn’t come up in my other searches.

Utility gloves tend to be orange/yellow or cyan/lime for hi-vis purposes. Most of them have phosphor in them, by the way, try hitting the next pair you see with a UV light.

scaliespe said:
... you can find quite a bit more under the yellow_gloves tag that were not properly tagged as latex_gloves or cleaning just due to the fact that, for whatever reason, rubber cleaning gloves always seem to be yellow....

aquello, n. The brilliant yellow that distinguishes all waterproof materials. ~ Sniglets

zenith-pendragon said:
Someone had more or less the same question on topic #31033

Here are some examples of latex/rubber clothing I found on e621 that can (hopefully) clarify the difference between latex (fluid) and rubber (solid) once the true definitions of them are taken into account.

—————

Clothing that can be classified as latex clothing:
post #2021458 post #1896629 post #2669857 post #2418074 post #2053320

In the examples above, you can see how the ‘clothing’ is of a liquid/gooey substance. You may think that this can also imply living latex, goo creature, latex transformation, liquid latex, etc. But as long as it is clear that latex is being used/shaped as a form of clothing on a character, the latex tag can be used.

—————

Clothing that can be classified as rubber clothing:
post #2958417 post #2742448 post #2669738 post #2958287 post #2915058

In the examples here, the clothing appears to be in a ‘solid’ state. There is no presence of goo or fluids that suggest the clothing/suit is out of (liquid) latex.

—————

An implication from ‘rubber’ to ‘latex’ would be helpful in this situation:

If it is unclear to determine whether something is latex or rubber, than the ‘latex’ tag can be used as a fallback.
Just like when one can’t determine what type of body a character has (xxx_scales, xxx_fur, xxx_feathers, xxx_skin, etc.) and an ‘xxx_body’ tag is used instead.

New to the thread.

IMO I would put all of those examples under the rubber/latex tag. The liquid would have an additional tag like living_latex or liquid_latex but it's still latex/rubber. Latex/rubber are the same thing when it comes to clothing, but it's vastly more referred to as latex.

I’m glad this has been brought back up - I’ve actually forgotten about this. In the time since these tags have been unaliased, latex has accumulated nearly 400 tags.

So, this has been sitting in limbo for a while. What does everyone think of my proposed solution above?

As someone who played with liquid latex and owns natural latex clothing I can't agree with dis-aliasing them.
Latex clothing looks the same as Rubber clothing, or heck PVC, especially as all of them are almost always drawn with shine. So going by IRL naming and clothing there is no difference that can be told on picture.
liquid_latex and living_latex are the tags to be used OR latex_goo, as the main post implies the goo part.

Edit: After scrolling through tags it's even more hilarious that we have latex gloves and latex stockings yet those should be cleary under Rubber Clothing and Gloves/Stocking, if we go by new Latex tag definition.
Also @Zenith-Pendragon where is BUR post for all the tags, why you don't care about them?

tankersss said:
As someone who played with liquid latex and owns natural latex clothing I can't agree with dis-aliasing them.
Latex clothing looks the same as Rubber clothing, or heck PVC, especially as all of them are almost always drawn with shine. So going by IRL naming and clothing there is no difference that can be told on picture.
liquid_latex and living_latex are the tags to be used OR latex_goo, as the main post implies the goo part.

Edit: After scrolling through tags it's even more hilarious that we have latex gloves and latex stockings yet those should be cleary under Rubber Clothing and Gloves/Stocking, if we go by new Latex tag definition.
Also @Zenith-Pendragon where is BUR post for all the tags, why you don't care about them?

My main issue with e6 calling it rubber is that every single major place you go to that sells it, including wikipedia, call it latex. Latex in context is almost exclusively referring to the clothing where as rubber can be anything. While users could get into arguments about what latex and rubber mean by definition, it doesn't change the fact that latex refers to the clothing. If anyone were to look at images of latex and rubber on any search engine, you'll get images of shiny clothes (and the program of the same name) vs tires/erasers. You'd be hard-pressed to find a single item of clothing under a "rubber" search online.

Hello all, the original thread creator here.

May I first say how pleased I am to see this thread getting some attention from various sides. My sincere apologies for being suddenly inactive on e621. I’ve been quite busy with personal things, but I’m trying to make some time for this thread.

I’ve done my best to read all of your posts and concerns. To keep it short, I fully understand how lots of people refer latex to rubber clothing, but to keep things less confusing for either side, a solution could be to imply rubber and liquid_latex to the latex tag. This will allow a poster of an artwork to just use the latex tag (as a so called ‘blanket tag’) if it’s not easy to determine whether the substance depicted is ‘solid’ or ‘fluid’ (through the tag-what-you-see principle). Kind of like how body in a tag is used if body texture of a character is unknown or hard to determine.

I did mention this idea earlier:

That sounds like a great idea! In that case “latex” is still used as a fallback/blanket tag (as I was suggesting), but the difference between “rubber” and “(liquid) latex” is still maintained. Awesome!

If the request “remove alias latex -> rubber” will be approved, then the following BUR must be implemented soon after:
create implication rubber -> latex
create implication liquid_latex -> latex

More tags can be added to the BUR if necessary.

What do you all say?

zenith-pendragon said:
Hello all, the original thread creator here.

May I first say how pleased I am to see this thread getting some attention from various sides. My sincere apologies for being suddenly inactive on e621. I’ve been quite busy with personal things, but I’m trying to make some time for this thread.

I’ve done my best to read all of your posts and concerns. To keep it short, I fully understand how lots of people refer latex to rubber clothing, but to keep things less confusing for either side, a solution could be to imply rubber and liquid_latex to the latex tag. This will allow a poster of an artwork to just use the latex tag (as a so called ‘blanket tag’) if it’s not easy to determine whether the substance depicted is ‘solid’ or ‘fluid’ (through the tag-what-you-see principle). Kind of like how body in a tag is used if body texture of a character is unknown or hard to determine.

I did mention this idea earlier:
More tags can be added to the BUR if necessary.

What do you all say?

Personally, I’m thinking of using latex as the umbrella for both liquid and solid forms of latex, and keeping rubber separate. So if you want liquid latex clothing, say stockings for example, you can search latex_stockings + liquid_latex - or if you don’t want the liquid form, you can search latex_stockings -liquid_latex. That way, if it’s an edge case where you’re not sure if it’s actually liquid or not, you can just tag it as latex regardless. Because, as has been pointed out, “latex” is such a common term for that particular kind of clothing, even in cases where it’s PVC or something else.

I’d like to reserve rubber tags for more utilitarian stuff. Like, rubber_boots for the kind that people wear in the rain, or rubber_gloves for the medical or cleaning kind. Latex would be just for the shiny black (usually) fetishwear. Plus, the fetishwear type is somewhat commonly seen in liquid form for some reason, but I’ve never seen liquid medical gloves.

Okay, I’m noticing a lot of concerns regarding rubber/latex clothing on this thread.

scaliespe said:
Personally, I’m thinking of using latex as the umbrella for both liquid and solid forms of latex, and keeping rubber separate. So if you want liquid latex clothing, say stockings for example, you can search latex_stockings + liquid_latex - or if you don’t want the liquid form, you can search latex_stockings -liquid_latex. That way, if it’s an edge case where you’re not sure if it’s actually liquid or not, you can just tag it as latex regardless. Because, as has been pointed out, “latex” is such a common term for that particular kind of clothing, even in cases where it’s PVC or something else.

I’d like to reserve rubber tags for more utilitarian stuff. Like, rubber_boots for the kind that people wear in the rain, or rubber_gloves for the medical or cleaning kind. Latex would be just for the shiny black (usually) fetishwear. Plus, the fetishwear type is somewhat commonly seen in liquid form for some reason, but I’ve never seen liquid medical gloves.

Here’s an analysis: If we are going to refer latex to fetishwear (liquid and solid) and rubber to utilitarian stuff, then a large BUR and probably several tag changes are needed. Examples:

and other clothing made of such material will imply latex_clothing, which at its turn will imply latex.
medical_gloves and other clothing made of rubber that serve for utilitarian purposes will imply rubber_clothing, which at its turn will imply rubber.
rubber_suit needs to be changed to latex_suit and thus imply latex_clothing.

The list can go on…

I don’t know if I have a definitive opinion for this suggestion. I mean it can make the difference between ‘fetishwear’ and ‘utilitarian items’ more clear I guess 🤷

Do you have any examples of artworks (with rubber utilitarian clothing) that can clarify your suggestion? Perhaps I’m not understanding it well.

zenith-pendragon said:
Okay, I’m noticing a lot of concerns regarding rubber/latex clothing on this thread.

Here’s an analysis: If we are going to refer latex to fetishwear (liquid and solid) and rubber to utilitarian stuff, then a large BUR and probably several tag changes are needed. Examples:

latex_stockings

and other clothing made of such material will imply latex_clothing, which at its turn will imply latex.
medical_gloves and other clothing made of rubber that serve for utilitarian purposes will imply rubber_clothing, which at its turn will imply rubber.
rubber_suit needs to be changed to latex_suit and thus imply latex_clothing.

The list can go on…

I don’t know if I have a definitive opinion for this suggestion. I mean it can make the difference between ‘fetishwear’ and ‘utilitarian items’ more clear I guess 🤷

Do you have any examples of artworks (with rubber utilitarian clothing) that can clarify your suggestion? Perhaps I’m not understanding it well.

post #2364765 - rubber medical gloves
post #664904 - rubber cleaning gloves
post #213035 - rubber rain boots
The last example is weird because latex_boots implies rubber_boots for some unfathomable reason, so searching for rubber_boots gets you a mix of stuff like this alongside some BDSM dominatrices in skintight thigh-high boots, which I think are not remotely the same thing.

“Latex” in the fetishwear sense tends to be skintight, very shiny, usually covers much more of the body (fetishwear latex gloves/boots often cover most of the arm/leg), whereas utilitarian “rubber” clothing is often loose-fitting (this is especially visible in the case of the cleaning gloves example above), often less shiny or somewhat matte, and usually only covers what it needs to (medical gloves stop right at or just beyond the wrist). Then there’s also context… as latex is primarily fetishwear, posts featuring it are most likely to be rating:explicit or at least questionable, whereas utilitarian rubber stuff is probably equally likely to be seen in any rating group as it isn’t particularly associated with any sexual activity.

scaliespe said:
post #2364765 - rubber medical gloves
post #664904 - rubber cleaning gloves
post #213035 - rubber rain boots
The last example is weird because latex_boots implies rubber_boots for some unfathomable reason, so searching for rubber_boots gets you a mix of stuff like this alongside some BDSM dominatrices in skintight thigh-high boots, which I think are not remotely the same thing.

“Latex” in the fetishwear sense tends to be skintight, very shiny, usually covers much more of the body (fetishwear latex gloves/boots often cover most of the arm/leg), whereas utilitarian “rubber” clothing is often loose-fitting (this is especially visible in the case of the cleaning gloves example above), often less shiny or somewhat matte, and usually only covers what it needs to (medical gloves stop right at or just beyond the wrist). Then there’s also context… as latex is primarily fetishwear, posts featuring it are most likely to be rating:explicit or at least questionable, whereas utilitarian rubber stuff is probably equally likely to be seen in any rating group as it isn’t particularly associated with any sexual activity.

I see. I suppose we can consider this as a possible solution, though I’m curious what other people think about this.

Bump

It’s been a very long time since we’ve discussed this topic and I think it’s about time we solve this. For those who don’t know or have forgotten, latex and rubber have finally been unaliased (thank you Rainbow Dash) and now we must come up with a solution to make the two tags clearer.

I’m planning on creating a BUR request as soon as a solution has been agreed upon. Whatever it will be, a BUR is required with multiple implications, a few aliases, and perhaps some new tags will be made.

So far, I’ve suggested to use latex as a fallback or blanket tag when it’s difficult to decipher a clothing item — if it is made of solid rubber or liquid_latex. Here is an example:
rubber implies latex
liquid latex implies latex

Scaliespe suggested to use rubber for “utilitarian stuff” and latex, including liquid latex, for fetish wear. Therefore, the two tags are completely independent from one another.

Which idea do you find more convenient?
If you have some other ideas or suggestions, please share them.

+1 to latex as fetish wear and rubber for utility wear, liquid_latex remains it's own thing and implies latex. I think that best reflects how new taggers will use them. Medical gloves and cleaning gloves imply disposable gloves imply rubber_gloves makes the most sense to me as well. While medical gloves and cleaning gloves are normally the same physical thing, context matters a lot to people searching the tags. Nobody looking for hot nurses wants to dig through hot mechanics and hot plumbers.

It may be nice to have a fallback tag, but it should be something different than latex or rubber which I'm not sure an intuitive name exists for. I'm also not sure if we need a fallback tag, if it would be useful for anyone, they could search ~latex ~rubber

1. Scaliespe's Suggestion / Utilitarian vs. Fetishistic Clothing

scaliespe said:
For example, we call those disposable medical gloves or dishwashing gloves “rubber gloves,” and reserve the term “latex gloves” for the kind used in latex fetishes/BDSM, which look quite different...

scaliespe said:
...the vast majority of those medical gloves in reality are nitrile rather than latex due to latex allergies. I think I would prefer one of the latter two just because they are sometimes seen in contexts outside of medicine (worn by a scientist, for example), so medical_gloves may be a misnomer in some cases. ...

The gloves used in aseptic surgery are almost universally made of latex. This is true in both biomedical science and medicine. In fact, Fisher Scientific (the largest supplier of gloves for biomedical research in the UK) does not stock any non-latex surgical gloves for UK sale. This contrasts with examination gloves, which are worn for other medical and scientific purposes and are more frequently made of nitryl, vinyl, or neoprene. Thus, some types of "medical gloves" (i.e., surgical gloves) are almost all made from latex while other types of "medical gloves" (i.e., examination gloves) are almost all latex-free. Any proposal to tag all medical gloves as non-latex is doomed to fail due to this difference in surgical vs. non-surgical applications.

It just seems a bit misguided to specify that surgical gloves cannot be described as latex gloves, since they are almost always made out of latex.

scaliespe said:
I doubt that most people searching for latex_gloves want to see medical gloves.

I don't know if that's true. There are a lot of people who fetishise medical situations.

Searching for latex_gloves right now pulls up a lot of medical examination gloves in fetishistic contexts, such as this detailed maw shot with dental examination gloves. Ironically, dental examination gloves usually are not latex as dentistry rarely demands an aseptic environment.

In any case, this does not seem like a strong enough argument to justify a rule against tagging latex medical gloves as a type of latex glove. Not to mention, this utilitarian vs. fetishistic separation seems nightmarish to enforce. Users who don't read the forums will upload posts of medical gloves and tag them latex_gloves without consulting the wiki, because they are literally made of latex. In any case, it is quite easy for those who want to avoid medical gloves to blacklist the tags related to content they don't want to see, e.g., latex_gloves -medical -medical_instrument -lab_coat -hospital.

Relatedly, it is interesting to note that the wiki page for latex gloves correctly observes that latex gloves are preferred for sterile (and thus aseptic) applications:

Gloves made out of latex or similar materials, often used for medical purposes or otherwise seeking to remain sterile...
[Emphasis mine]

Finally, I would not be surprised if this kind of conundrum exists for other types of "utilitarian" clothing as well. To me, it seems that splitting latex and rubber based on the purpose (utilitarian vs. fetishistic) -- and not based on the material composition itself -- creates more headaches than it solves.

2. Zenith-Pendragon's Suggestion / Implying latex from rubber

zenith-pendragon said:
So far, I’ve suggested to use latex as a fallback or blanket tag when it’s difficult to decipher a clothing item — if it is made of solid rubber or liquid_latex. Here is an example:
rubber implies latex
liquid latex implies latex

Many or most insertable sex toys (dildos, butt plugs, etc.) are made from silicone rubber. If someone correctly tags a sex toy as being made from rubber, it should not imply latex, as dildos are rarely made from latex.

To avoid this, we could suggest some constellation of implications specifically for clothing tags, such as rubber_clothing implies latex_clothing (see topic #31033). However, for clothing specifically, a fallback tag already exists in glistening_clothing, to which shiny_clothing and shiny_clothes have already been aliased. The glistening_clothing tag is already used for many ostensibly latex or rubber clothing items, e.g.,
post #3603312
post #3599955
post #3599710
post #3581559

If glistening_clothing is unacceptable for some reason, is this due to the nature of the tag itself or due to how the tag is currently utilised? I tend to think the former, as I foresee a potentially difficult problem arising wherein many types of clothing could glisten if they're covered in, say, sequins or glitter. Thus, perhaps these rubber-like materials should be given a specific tag of their own.

3. Monroe's Suggestion / Rubber-Like_Material

Rubber is a polymer. These other "rubber-like" materials we've been discussing, including latex, silicone rubber, PVC, vinyl, nitrile, neoprene, and more, are often referred to as rubber-related polymers in the relevant literature. If we want a fallback/catch-all term for shiny, rubber-like, unidentified materials, why not follow the lead of the professionals who've already coined catch-all terminology for these things? A tag called rubber-related polymer might be a bit obtuse, so maybe we should go with the more common-language designation of rubber-like material. [EDIT: rubber-like is also fine if we want something even shorter.]

To wit, I suggest:

create implication liquid_latex -> latex
create implication latex -> rubber-like_material
create implication nylon -> rubber-like_material
create implication vinyl -> rubber-like_material
create implication rubber -> rubber-like_material
etc.

This avoids category mistakes such as proclaiming all medical gloves to be non-latex when many are known to be latex, or referring to silicone dildos as latex dildos. And if you are unable to determine the precise material in a particular post, you can tag rubber-like_material directly.

monroethelizard said:

3. Monroe's Suggestion / Rubber-Like_Material

Rubber is a polymer. These other "rubber-like" materials we've been discussing, including latex, silicone rubber, PVC, vinyl, nitrile, neoprene, and more, are often referred to as rubber-related polymers in the relevant literature. If we want a fallback/catch-all term for shiny, rubber-like, unidentified materials, why not follow the lead of the professionals who've already coined catch-all terminology for these things? A tag called rubber-related polymer might be a bit obtuse, so maybe we should go with the more common-language designation of rubber-like material. [EDIT: rubber-like is also fine if we want something even shorter.]

To wit, I suggest:

create implication liquid_latex -> latex
create implication latex -> rubber-like_material
create implication nylon -> rubber-like_material
create implication vinyl -> rubber-like_material
create implication rubber -> rubber-like_material
etc.

This avoids category mistakes such as proclaiming all medical gloves to be non-latex when many are known to be latex, or referring to silicone dildos as latex dildos. And if you are unable to determine the precise material in a particular post, you can tag rubber-like_material directly.

Your suggestion is the best to keep the tags usable if we decide that being exact about the literal material shown or implied is important. I don't think it is though. The exact material used in an image matters to very few if any users, and trying to get it tagged correctly under TWYS would be a massive headache nobody would put up with. The vast majority of rubber-like materials on this site are impossible to properly identify due to lack of information, not to mention all the fantasy materials used in images that people looking up latex would expect. I can't imagine the end result being anything other than latex, nylon, vinyl, and rubber becoming unmaintained and difficult to use if we do just this. Ultimately this is a site for art, not material science.
Even though Scaliespe's suggestion isn't technically correct, I still think it's the best one because it's easier to verify if the tag is correct at a glance, and it draws a line that is useful for both the people looking for utility rubber exclusively and the people looking for fetish rubber exclusively. Right now it's a bit of a headache to do that.

monroethelizard said:
Searching for latex_gloves right now pulls up a lot of medical examination gloves in fetishistic contexts, such as this detailed maw shot with dental examination gloves. Ironically, dental examination gloves usually are not latex as dentistry rarely demands an aseptic environment.

A large part of that is because medical_gloves is aliased to latex_gloves right now. Probably should unalias that too. Nobody with a medical fetish has spoken up yet, but I imagine this situation is much worse for people that want to find medical content than it is for people want to avoid it. If medical_gloves was an option, everyone looking for medical gloves would use that before using latex_gloves.

monroethelizard said:
In any case, this does not seem like a strong enough argument to justify a rule against tagging latex medical gloves as a type of latex glove. Not to mention, this utilitarian vs. fetishistic separation seems nightmarish to enforce. Users who don't read the forums will upload posts of medical gloves and tag them latex_gloves without consulting the wiki, because they are literally made of latex. In any case, it is quite easy for those who want to avoid medical gloves to blacklist the tags related to content they don't want to see, e.g., latex_gloves -medical -medical_instrument -lab_coat -hospital.

Having to blacklist several tags to get an effective search is rarely good. Stuff slips through the cracks a lot, and often it leads to missing images that include the interpretation of the tag that you're looking for in addition to the one you're not.
Examples of false positive: post #3584949 post #3570350
Examples of false negative: post #949244 post #3538558
This gets worse when you consider that medical gloves aren't the only kind of utility latex that needs to be blacklisted. This problem is also bad in the other direction. Someone looking for medical gloves has to blacklist every other kind of utility gloves and fetish gloves. They could also use a second whitelist, but that would also result in missing images that fit what they're looking for.

oozeenthusiast said:
Rubber is a polymer. These other "rubber-like" materials we've been discussing, including latex, silicone rubber, PVC, vinyl, nitrile, neoprene, and more, are often referred to as rubber-related polymers in the relevant literature. If we want a fallback/catch-all term for shiny, rubber-like, unidentified materials, why not follow the lead of the professionals who've already coined catch-all terminology for these things? A tag called rubber-related polymer might be a bit obtuse, so maybe we should go with the more common-language designation of rubber-like material. [EDIT: rubber-like is also fine if we want something even shorter.]

To wit, I suggest:

create implication liquid_latex -> latex
create implication latex -> rubber-like_material
create implication nylon -> rubber-like_material
create implication vinyl -> rubber-like_material
create implication rubber -> rubber-like_material
etc.

This avoids category mistakes such as proclaiming all medical gloves to be non-latex when many are known to be latex, or referring to silicone dildos as latex dildos. And if you are unable to determine the precise material in a particular post, you can tag rubber-like_material directly.

While this idea does sound promising at first glance, all these implications will eventually prove to be unnecessary in hindsight. I agree with what OozeEnthusiast said:

oozeenthusiast said:
The vast majority of rubber-like materials on this site are impossible to properly identify due to lack of information, not to mention all the fantasy materials used in images that people looking up latex would expect. I can't imagine the end result being anything other than latex, nylon, vinyl, and rubber becoming unmaintained and difficult to use if we do just this. Ultimately this is a site for art, not material science.

Using specific rubber-like material tags is redundant and overly complicated to determine based on the TWYS principle. To explain this more clearly, here are some examples of ‘rubber-like materials’:

post #2671135 post #2855622 post #2968227 post #3150933 post #2669738

All of these posts are tagged with either rubber, latex, neoprene, or vinyl. Some even use a combination of these tags. Honestly I wouldn’t be able to tell which post features what material without context. Other than different art styles, they all appear indistinguishable from one another.

———

I think the main issue with this debate is the fact that we are trying to view rubber and latex as separate tags or use more rubber-like material tags as implications. However, based on the TWYS principle, all the materials look virtually similar if not identical.

What are your thoughs on creating a simple polymer tag? I mean all the materials that have been mentioned here (rubber, latex, vinyl, pvc, neoprene, etc.) are basically made of polymers and/or are polymer-based. It could solve this whole debate on ‘rubber or latex’ and ‘rubber-like materials’ for good. Whether it’s a glistening material or not wouldn’t matter either (you can simply use the glistening tags if they apply).

A BUR request for the polymer tag would look something like this:

create alias latex -> polymer
create alias rubber -> polymer
create alias vinyl -> polymer
create alias pvc -> polymer
create alias neoprene -> polymer
create alias latex_clothing -> polymer_clothing
create alias rubber_clothing -> polymer_clothing
create implication polymer_clothing -> polymer

…and more

Additionally, liquid_latex can stay as a separate tag and simply imply polymer.

With regards to rubber/latex gloves — the medical kind — it can imply polymer as well. Maybe it can stay it’s own tag to prevent any confusion (there is no such thing as ‘polymer gloves’), but we’ll see.