The menacing tag is mostly filled with two types of posts: either the posts convey a creepy setting or atmosphere (i.e. literally menacing), or they use the Japanese sound effect ゴゴゴゴ or ドドドド, occasionally with an accompanying pose (i.e. a motherfucking Jojo's reference ). I do think there's merit to tagging the latter like any other meme, but "menacing" isn't the most descriptive name. Should the meme references be moved to another tag (and menacing can be aliased or something), should the non-meme examples be removed from menacing (and people can clean it out occasionally or something), or should we just not bother?

Meme should have its own tag otherwise it pollutes the tag and makes it hard to find either thing. As is, is lose-lose for both theoretical searchers.

There's also a ゴゴゴゴゴ tag for the meme, which should probably be renamed since we're not supposed to have non-ASCII tag names.

crocogator said:
There's also a ゴゴゴゴゴ tag for the meme, which should probably be renamed since we're not supposed to have non-ASCII tag names.

I didn't even know that existed.

We could create a menacing_(meme) tag, make it a copyright tag because it's a meme, then do this:

alias ゴゴゴゴゴ -> menacing_(meme)
imply menacing_(meme) -> meme

But then what to do with the menacing tag? I think we have three choices to choose from:

Option A: Do nothing other than clean-up the tag to remove all the meme posts

Option B: Create a disambiguation tag menacing_(disambiguation), then try to create a replacement tag for menacing (e.g. menacing_(not_the_meme_but_literally)), but I don't know if there's a name that would work well

Option C: Create a disambiguation tag menacing_(disambiguation). The disambiguation Wiki could suggest other tags such as menacing_(meme), creepy, scared, evil_grin, looming, intimidating, intimidation, imminent_death, imminent_rape

crocogator said:
We could create a menacing_(meme) tag, make it a copyright tag because it's a meme, then do this:

alias ゴゴゴゴゴ -> menacing_(meme)
imply menacing_(meme) -> meme

But then what to do with the menacing tag? I think we have three choices to choose from:

Option A: Do nothing other than clean-up the tag to remove all the meme posts

Option B: Create a disambiguation tag menacing_(disambiguation), then try to create a replacement tag for menacing (e.g. menacing_(not_the_meme_but_literally)), but I don't know if there's a name that would work well

Option C: Create a disambiguation tag menacing_(disambiguation). The disambiguation Wiki could suggest other tags such as menacing_(meme), creepy, scared, evil_grin, looming, intimidating, intimidation, imminent_death, imminent_rape

My first thought was just aliasing menacing to creepy or something, but now I'm liking option C. Before that, step 1 should be that alias/imply BUR you suggested.

The bulk update request #441 is active.

create alias ゴゴゴゴゴ (0) -> menacing_(meme) (527)
create implication menacing_(meme) (527) -> meme (52178)
create alias menacing (0) -> menacing_(disambiguation) (171)

Reason: I wrote a wiki for menacing_(meme) and will work on menacing_(disambiguation) now. Let me know if I should remove alias menacing -> menacing_(disambiguation)

EDIT: The bulk update request #441 (forum #300459) has been approved by @Millcore.

Apparently, there's also a menacing_approach tag, which often use ドドドドド instead of ゴゴゴゴゴ. Is this the same as the menacing meme, or something different? I don't know much about Jojo's Bizarre Adventure.

crocogator said:
Apparently, there's also a menacing_approach tag, which often use ドドドドド instead of ゴゴゴゴゴ. Is this the same as the menacing meme, or something different? I don't know much about Jojo's Bizarre Adventure.

They're definitely connected, but they're not the same. The menacing approach posts all reference a specific panel from the JJBA manga, whereas the others just use the ゴゴゴゴ / ドドドド sfx (commonly used throughout the JJBA manga).

also how many tags does this make now, yeesh

For The bulk update request #441 : 👍＋１
I agreed to that request but went to research the JJBA because I also don't know it well.

crocogator said:...Is this the same as the menacing meme, or something different?...

strikerman said:They're definitely connected, but they're not the same...

Probably several explanations seem to exist in my view.

• #1 In case of giving the character an aura ⇒ ゴゴゴゴ / ドドドド

[1-A]post #875295 ---- [1-B]post #1839460
For this, it is said that
- ゴゴゴゴ = the sound of the air being made to tremble by the character
- ドドドド = the sound of the character making the air or ground tremble.
So, ドドドド is stronger here than ゴゴゴゴ.
Usually used as [1-A]. But sometimes as a useful description such as [1-B]. --- I can explain that he's not just smiling. _{What a useful meme...}

• #2 In case of it describes the sound of heartbeat(?) ⇒ ドドドド

ex. not found in e6...maybe this one...?
They seem to use ドドドド to express the tension of the character.
My feeling is that ゴゴゴゴ is the sound of heavy objects moving, and ドドドド is the sound of drums.
Also, the former is less loud and the latter is louder.

• #3 In case of menacing approach( "The DIO walk" ) ⇒ ドドドド

post #2040910 post #2456905
As @Strikerman says, it's a template, so it seems we should use ドドドド instead of ゴゴゴゴ.
( Probably this means the same as the "ドドドド of #1" = character menacing, but I think it is not wrong to use ゴゴゴゴ. )

To be honest, I don't know which one is right for me, as it's used in different ways with the writer's taste.
Anyway, I agree with the request.

My two cents is to make the menacing_(meme) tag, put all the meme images under it, then do crocogator's "Option: A" and clean up the meme images out of the normal menacing tag.

A niche definition, even if more popular than the normal definition, should be the one given the appendix tag because doing otherwise requires patently ridiculous tags like menacing_(not_the_meme_but_literally) (which I'm aware is a joke), that would make searching for the normal definition pretty much all but impossible as the user has to divine how the tag author wrote "And I mean it this time" out of infinite possibilities, where as menacing_(meme) is simple, concise and obvious.

Doing otherwise would be like having some world where the movie 'Cats' became ultra popular so that cats tag refer to the movie and actual feline characters were under cats_(but_not_like_in_the_movie_cats).

I would then alias ゴゴゴゴ to the menacing_(meme) tag, as the primary tag is supposed to only have ASCII characters, IIRC. So that people could still look it up that way.

The current solution doesn't help neither camp of people who want to search or blacklist either thing.

If you were looking for an actual menacing looking picture (or wanted to blacklist them) then having the Jojo references in there makes that more difficult.

If you want to find the Jojo reference (or wanted to blacklist it), having 'regular' menacing characters makes that hard too.

Nobody is satisfied.

As to "Should ドドドド tag be aliased to it too?", no, it should get its own English name tag (dio_walk_(meme)?) to alias to as while they're memes from the same anime/manga property the images people want to find aren't the same.

They're similar, I give you that, but they aren't always the same (and an image that has both can just tag both).

There are going to be people that want to find one without the other.

damieng said:
My two cents is to make the menacing_(meme) tag, put all the meme images under it,...
...If you want to find the Jojo reference (or wanted to blacklist it), having 'regular' menacing characters makes that hard too.

I think this is an important policy in tagging.
Certainly, #1#2 in my example is different from #3, and I think we should add a different tag for #3.

Maybe
#1,#2 ⇒ menacing_(meme) ｜ 　#3 ⇒ menacing_(meme) + dio_walk_(meme)
should be used...?

damieng said:
I would then alias ゴゴゴゴ to the menacing_(meme) tag, as the primary tag is supposed to only have ASCII characters, IIRC. So that people could still look it up that way.

Except ゴゴゴゴ is a somewhat common onomatopoeia in Japanese for a sense of something being looming or menacing. Like an English comic or picture that used *LOOM* or *GLARE* or something, to give a not-necessarily-serious (but not necessarily meme either) sense of being threatening. It just became a meme because JoJo's a comedic Japanese manga/anime series that used it while spawning a ton of memes. So with a comic or picture that has the literal characters ゴゴゴゴ used more regularly, users would mistakenly tag it with menacing_(meme)/meme when it's not. Same with ドドドド, just because it ended up in a meme doesn't mean it's only referencing that meme.

Side note, I saw that To Be Continued implicates meme, I suspect because JoJo made it funny once, even though the actual wiki description makes it out to not necessarily be meme-bait ("For this site, it's used at the end of some comics, sometimes jokingly for false cliffhangers"). As a result, this and some others are incorrectly tagged meme. That should probably be unaliased, with a separate to_be_continued_(meme) to indicate the JoJo meme reference, and to_be_continued itself moved to Meta.

kurogi_hbfoxsiv said:
I think this is an important policy in tagging.
Certainly, #1#2 in my example is different from #3, and I think we should add a different tag for #3.

Maybe
#1,#2 ⇒ menacing_(meme) ｜ 　#3 ⇒ menacing_(meme) + dio_walk_(meme)
should be used...?

The dio walk is a different meme than the menacing meme, as I explained. They'd need 2 different tags. They're both Jojo references, but they're not the same meme.

So they can't be all 4 aliased to each other.

watsit said:
Except ゴゴゴゴ is a somewhat common onomatopoeia in Japanese for a sense of something being looming or menacing. Like an English comic or picture that used *LOOM* or *GLARE* or something, to give a not-necessarily-serious (but not necessarily meme either) sense of being threatening. It just became a meme because JoJo's a comedic Japanese manga/anime series that used it while spawning a ton of memes. So with a comic or picture that has the literal characters ゴゴゴゴ used more regularly, users would mistakenly tag it with menacing_(meme)/meme when it's not. Same with ドドドド, just because it ended up in a meme doesn't mean it's only referencing that meme.

Side note, I saw that To Be Continued implicates meme, I suspect because JoJo made it funny once, even though the actual wiki description makes it out to not necessarily be meme-bait ("For this site, it's used at the end of some comics, sometimes jokingly for false cliffhangers"). As a result, this and some others are incorrectly tagged meme. That should probably be unaliased, with a separate to_be_continued_(meme) to indicate the JoJo meme reference, and to_be_continued itself moved to Meta.

That's a fair argument for not aliasing the sound effects with the memes. I don't know Japanese. I don't even know memes well, I just want what is best for people trying to find (or blacklist) things, both memes and otherwise.

I only suggested the alias because 1) primary tags are supposed to be in ASCII characters and typically where applicable in English and menacing_(meme) and dio_walk_(meme) satisfied both of those criteria and 2) I was unaware of any other use of ゴゴゴゴ and ドドドド tags being used for anything but Jojo.

But if that's not the case and there's a non-meme use for those strings then I differ to your judgement on the matter. I'm not sure what ASCII primary tag name you'd place for them. But that's probably a good discussion for people more familiar with Japanese language?

damieng said:
But if that's not the case and there's a non-meme use for those strings then I differ to your judgement on the matter. I'm not sure what ASCII primary tag name you'd place for them.

The menacing tag would probably work for when it's intended to be more of a general menacing effect, while menacing_(meme) and dio_walk_(meme) for when it's a clear JoJo reference.

watsit said:
The menacing tag would probably work for when it's intended to be more of a general menacing effect, while menacing_(meme) and dio_walk_(meme) for when it's a clear JoJo reference.

Sure but what to do with the ゴゴゴゴ and ドドドド tags themselves then?

Nothing? Only use them for when the characters literally are present (though are other characters given specific tags except <3 and generic Japanese_language tags? Like there's no e tag for every time the letter 'e' appears and it sounds asinine and pointless to make a new tag for every single Japanese character).

Find the nearest English sound effect to alias them to?

I don't really know.

damieng said:
Sure but what to do with the ゴゴゴゴ and ドドドド tags themselves then?

I suppose it depends on how menacing_(meme) would be handled. If menacing_(meme) would imply menacing, then ゴゴゴゴ could be aliased to menacing (along with a tagging project to add the meme tags to the appropriate posts). Or if not, it could be disambiguated and moved to the Invalid category, suggesting either the meme or non-meme menacing tag in its place depending if it's a JoJo reference or not.

Beyond Japanese works, is there any context where ゴゴゴゴ wouldn't be a Jojo reference or at least intentionally invoking the meme?

strikerman said:
Beyond Japanese works, is there any context where ゴゴゴゴ wouldn't be a Jojo reference or at least intentionally invoking the meme?

Outside of Japanese works, probably not. Being Japanese letters for Japanese onomatopoeia, it would normally be translated away when localized for foreign audiences. JoJo is a rather peculiar case all around, and most foreign people that latched onto it likely did so through that show's popularity. But it still exists in Japanese works independent of the meme, so probably should avoid any implications/aliases to avoid mistags from people not realizing it's not exclusive to JoJo references.

strikerman said: Beyond Japanese works, is there any context where ゴゴゴゴ wouldn't be a Jojo reference or at least intentionally invoking the meme?

watsit said: ...JoJo is a rather peculiar case all around...

As far as I know, in such a situation the use of onomatopoeia has not been common Even in Japan, to begin with.
So, it's OK to say ゴゴゴゴ and ドドドド were brought by JoJo(JJBA), I think.

However, it may well be the case that they are not menacing.
Ex. in my sense : ゴゴゴゴ ⇒ Heavy objects in motion , Earthquake ｜ ドドドド ⇒ Engine(idling) , Beating with something heavy , Footsteps

For that reason, this tag can only be used if we find it menacing......It would be difficult for "people not realizing".

This whole thread hurts my brain. I'm so lost.

damieng said:
As to "Should ドドドド tag be aliased to it too?", no, it should get its own English name tag (dio_walk_(meme)?) to alias to as while they're memes from the same anime/manga property the images people want to find aren't the same.

There is no ドドドド tag, but there's a menacing_approach tag for the "Dio Walk" meme post #2461775. We could alias menacing_approach -> dio_walk_(meme) if we want to rename it, but I don't see any point to aliasing ドドドド, since it's not being used.

watsit said:
I suppose it depends on how menacing_(meme) would be handled. If menacing_(meme) would imply menacing, then ゴゴゴゴ could be aliased to menacing (along with a tagging project to add the meme tags to the appropriate posts).

Why would we do that? I created the menacing_(meme) tag and wrote its wiki specifically so we could alias ゴゴゴゴゴ -> menacing_(meme). The only reason there's a picture currently tagged menacing_(meme) is because I had to tag something to change it to a copyright tag.

crocogator said:
Why would we do that? I created the menacing_(meme) tag and wrote its wiki specifically so we could alias ゴゴゴゴゴ -> menacing_(meme). The only reason there's a picture currently tagged menacing_(meme) is because I had to tag something to change it to a copyright tag.

Because not all uses of ゴゴゴゴゴ are intended to be a meme: post #1966833 post #1280528 post #2305598, but a somewhat general if not widely used onomatopoeia for a looming sense of being menacing or foreboding. And generally when you have letter-based tags like zzz or aaaaaaaaaaa, it's because they appear regardless of precise context.

watsit said:
Because not all uses of ゴゴゴゴゴ are intended to be a meme: post #1966833 post #1280528 post #2305598, but a somewhat general if not widely used onomatopoeia for a looming sense of being menacing or foreboding. And generally when you have letter-based tags like zzz or aaaaaaaaaaa, it's because they appear regardless of precise context.

I see it more as a general expression of atmospheric tension. Japanese media puts a whole lot more emphasis on that than English media is used to.
The very question of aliasing it to one specific usage is evidence of that in itself.

The bulk update request #441 (forum #300459) has been approved by @Millcore.