transfer is a term I've seen used before in vore and oviposition contexts, and we've had tags using those terms (namely transfer and transfer_birthing, formerly egg_transfer, see forum #272845) for a while, and despite the low tag count on either, I've seen it often enough to feel like it wouldn't be a bad idea to give it a proper definition and subtags.

The reason why I'm writing this as a discussion thread rather than an implication request is because there are a few details I'm still not too sure of and would like to nail down before moving on with a BUR.

• Is using an ovipositor to deposit eggs inside someone transfer? The definition I wrote for transfer_birthing last year explicitly singled it out for the sake of tag specificity, but does it make sense to?
• Is cum_exchange considered transfer? It's not a solid object, but it appears to fit most of the definitions I coudld come up with.
• Does transfer require the same orifice to be used on both ends? Is post #2445268 not prey_transfer because it goes from cock_vore to unbirthing?

With these questions in mind, I made the general definition of transfer about "an object" that is "directly passed from one creature to another" in a way that's "not the way nature would have intended it to be" (again, to single out ovipositors), a definition which I realize can be broad in all the wrong ways.

Regarding the subtags, I'm likely going to have prey_transfer and egg_transfer (not entirely sure if transfer_birthing would still have a place afterwards, I'm mainly concernned about the naming conventions), possibly stuff like feces_transfer (which I am not going to populate, and didn't even think would exist).

Should the desriptions be adjusted?

xyzforgottenme said:
I do not think that cum_exchange should be considered a transfer.

Reasoning: Transfer implies that an object or substance is leaving one individual and is given to another. Meanwhile, Exchange seems to imply that the trade is occurring in both directions.

Note: I think Exchanging_Fluid should be a tag. Later this can be split into _cum, _urine, _blood, _milk, etc.
Sub-Note: Transferring_Fluid is pointless cause 'fluid'_inflation, maybe their is a fringe case with blood, but blood_donation fits that better.

I want to say overall I think tags with exchange should be a similar type of orifice. Else it just becomes a type of inflation or some type of insertion/penetration.

Hmm, I guess most of the stuff under bladder_inflation could get a urine_exchange tag with a super-tag shared with cum_exchange, and I've seen at least one post (post #2164036) that does something that appears to be milk_exchange. Not sure I'd go so far as to toss, say, blood in there, but it's worth exploring, and makes enough sense for me to strike it out of the things to include in transfer.

xyzforgottenme said:
Regarding Transfer_Birthing and ovipositor I think that ovipositor by itself is well defined so making it part of T_B imply/aliased chain would provide no benefit.
...
I don't think ovipositor by itself should imply Transfer_Birthing because dick pics.

I wasn't really asking whether or not ovipositor should be part of the implication chain (an implication is way too strict for that sort of thing), only whether or not images of egg insertion via ovipositor should count (by the definition of the tag) as egg transfer or if the definition of transfer should be narrowed down to exclude these and keep the tag specific to what's currently tagged.

xyzforgottenme said:
I think Transfer_Birthing should remain a higher abstract tag to include both live and egg. Reasoning is because we have tags which can dictate what type of birth it is.

...

Plus I use T_B, and it seems so do others, to find a type of birthing_play that wouldn't normally be considered natural for either party.

Sub-Note Maybe it would be helpful to have a Birth_Play tag which would be implied by transfer_birthing and blocked_birth edit: maybe also birth/preg_torture.

being the interplay of both birth_play and transfer_brthing doesn't actually sound like a bad idea, with blocked_birth making a good contender for an additionnal tag to add to the implication chain (if it's ruled that all cases count as birth_play, that is).

xyzforgottenme said:
Last I think prey_transfer should be separated into Exchanging_Prey (I will give you mine if you give me yours) and Transferring_Prey (Here I am donating/giving/gifting/providing to you.)

Transferring <implied< Transfer_Birthing, Transfer_Prey, Blood_Donation
Exchange <implied< Swapping_'Object', Swapping_'Fluid', Swapping_Prey, edit: Swapping_Pred

Really not sure about that last one. I went with transfer because this appears to be the term generally used on other sites for that sort of thing, and tagging is there more to document than to shape that voacabulary (even though it sometime does end up shaping that vocabulary). Exchanging_prey wrongfully seems to indicate that this is connected to the likes of cum_exchange (which we've already established it shouldn't be) and splitting the posts between it and transferring_prey when the distinctin you appear to be drawing is on intend or on extended outcome (which is always going to be hard to tag properly, see full_tour which is in a similar position because you can rarely see the prey both entering and exiting on the same image). As for the proposed implication chain, again, I wouldn't try merging the hypothetical *_exchange and *_transfer families just yet.

I also fail to see how "pred swapping" could be a thing at the same time as "prey swapping"?

xyzforgottenme said:

Edit 2: I think that the post should include prey_transfer, due to the fact both tags imply vore.

I was mainly asking because, unlike most other examples, post #2445268 transfers between different orifices (urethral to vaginal).

xyzforgottenme said:
To clarify I think posts that use the transfer tag, do so under the assumption that the action wouldn't be considered 'normal'. Therefore in the case of an ovipositor it is otherwise normal for it to egg_insertion b/c that is their version of inseminating/reproducing.

That's fair, pretty much what I wrote down as the current descripion, too.

xyzforgottenme said:

However, if Transfer_Birthing and Egg_Transferring refer to two different things. Transfer_Birthing being itself and Egg_Transferring meaning an Egg going from inside one individual to inside another. Then yes, I believe that egg_transferring would be appropriate for egg_insertion via an ovipositor.

Prey_Transferring also has the problem where it seems related to egg_transferring/Transfer_birth. But it doesn't do to them being a type of Birth_Play. Maybe Swapping_Prey or Prey_Swapping would be better instead of transfer or exchange?

Prey_transfer works exactly like transfer_birthing currently does, the primary difference is that the "payload" is a vored prey instead of an egg/parasite/baby. Going by your own above defitinion of transfer, egg insertion via ovipositor as counting given it's the natural purpose of the ovipositor, as you said. I'd personally have egg_transfer apply to most of transfer_birthing (which happens to be about transferring eggs), alongside other non-birthing cases like post #1672576 and others.

Basically, <noun>_transfer could be about the type of "payload" and transfer_birthing could still exist as a mean of describing these combined with birth_play.

xyzforgottenme said:
I edited the my first post to point out the fact that the item in question failed to show a good Pred/Prey relationship. Therefore I believed that it doesn't qualify for the prey_swapping/transferring tag.

It wasn't about prey/pred relationship; prey_transfer uses prey_* in the vore sense, as you can tell from what's currently tagged as such.

So there's urine_exchange, milk_exchange, birth_play (haven't decided whether it applies to all current transfer_birthing posts or not) are now as populated as I could find posts to populate them with, alongside with prey_transfer and egg_transfer I had populated earlier.

That leaves us with the following proposed tag hierarchy:

• transfer: "Passing an object directly from inside one's body to inside another's"
• transfer_birthing (correlated with birth_play)
• egg_transfer (correlated with egg_play)
• prey_transfer (implies vore)

• fluid_exchange (not sure on the name for this one): "Mixing one's fluids with those of another person, except inside their own body, where said fluids are normally stored."
• cum_exchange
• milk_exchange
• urine_exchange

There's definitely semantic overlap between the two, though, the more I look at it, the less I'm sure where to draw the line... Hell, I'm not even fure under which one feces_transfer would go (ignoring the naming pattern)!

Having though about it some more, it would probably make more sense if transfer described the "method" of by which this passation is done and exchange described the result where something is/has been passed from one individual to another, establishing surrogacy. This wouldmake this new definition of transfer in line with the existing throat_transfer.

"Surrogacy" would then be the defining aspect of the *_exchange tag group, such that whatever has been transfered ends up being contained and carried in the reciever's body as their own. For instance, cum_exchange ends up with the cum of one character being held in the other's balls (it never has anything to do with, say, cum_in_bladder) such that the recieving character would in turn ejaculate their mixed cum.

Transfer would then specifically be about the transfer method and have the tags names after body parts rather than "payloads", so like penile_transfer, vaginal_transfer, oral_transfer, and so on. Under those new definitions, various types of attribute_theft might be reclassified as subtags of exchange, though that's still up for discussion.

The only thing left I'm not 100% sure about would be "mixed-origin transfers", like with post #2445268, that post would not qualify for either exchange or transfer under the propoesed definitions.

So, then, alternative tag hierarchy:

• exchange: "Making someone else carry your own fluids ("stuff"?) alongside theirs, makking a surrogate for delivering a mixture of the two whenever they release their own."
• cum_exchange
• milk_exchange
• urine_exchange
• feces_exchange
• egg_exchange
• parasite_exchange??
• prey_exchange

• transfer: "Having something exit one individual but enter the other through the same orifice on both."
• anal_transfer
• vaginal_transfer
• oral_transfer/throat_transfer?
• urethral_transfer

• transfer_birthing: "Giving birth to something into someone else. Ovipositors don't count because the eggs are delivered for incubation, not birth."
• Would usually target egg_exchange, parasite_exchange or some similar tag for live birth I can't figure out a good name for ATM.
• Would also leave it up to the tagger to use vaginal_transfer or anal_transfer, though possibly neither if this is vagina -> anus or something.
• Probably imply birth_play

I've discussed with @TheVileOne about this and ended up backing off from the last proposed set of definitions. Instead, here's a refinement of what I had before, based on their feedback:

• transfer: "Passing something directly from inside one's body to inside another's"??? (That could be just about anything!)
• prey_transfer
• transfer_birthing
• testicle_transfer (for stuff like post #2004638)

• exchange: "Externally forcing more of a substance into the body's 'natural reserves' through the orifice from where if should come out of"
• cum_exchange
• urine_exchange
• milk_exchange
• feces_exchange (replacing what's currently feces_transfer)
• egg_exchange (which, by that definition, would only apply to ovipositor-to-ovipositor content, like post #2103616)
• vomit_exchange (but I'm not sure if there's a need for it?)

With that definition, "natural reserves" is the part meant to set exchange appart from whatever definition of transfer ends up being picked. It's meant to convey that only naturally produced substances are applicable for *_exchange and that whatever is being forced into the reciever should merge with whatever is already inside them, which is what my "surrogacy" point from above amounted to.

With that one now out of the way (hopefully), transfer is starting to become increasingly hard to pinpoint. Ideally all of the subtags for exchange would have a corresponding transfer subtag with an implication from the former to the latter. However, I personally can't think of a satisfactory definition for transfer (or any subtag of it besides the proposed ones above) that doesn't cause issues with the questions below:

fifteen said:

With that one now out of the way (hopefully), transfer is starting to become increasingly hard to pinpoint. Ideally all of the subtags for exchange would have a corresponding transfer subtag with an implication from the former to the latter. However, I personally can't think of a satisfactory definition for transfer (or any subtag of it besides the proposed ones above) that doesn't cause issues with the questions below:

• Is living_toilet transfer?
• Is snowballing transfer?
• Is egg_from_ovipositor transfer? If so, does there need to be someone attached to the ovipositor or can it be tentacles?
• Isn't any form of cum_inside transfer???
• Which (if any) of the following posts are transfer?
• post #1627130 <- cum_through while kissing, so that cum is flowing from one character to the other
• post #2071822 <- Forcing what appears to be ghost matter (from which the topping character is made of) into someone (again, via kiss)
• post #1250900 <- idem
• post #2285562 <- different person, anal-to-anal
• post #2445268 <- different person, urethral-to-vaginal
• post #1910569 <- same person, urethral-to-anal
• post #1926363 <- same person, urethral-to-oral

I would say a "transfer" should really be more explicit to non-liquid movement, which eliminates any conflict with cum-related things, leaving only eggs, vore, and maybe feces or some sort of sex toy.
For liquids, one could use Exchange, as they would tend to not only go one-way and will often mix together.
I might also propose that an easy fix to the cock vored prey being pushed into another orifice being labeled as something like "Vore_Ejaculation" or "Vore_Expulsion", which also applies to those rare few images where a character becomes un-vored without excrement/vomit (outside of vaginal, which is "birth").

volteer133 said:
I would say a "transfer" should really be more explicit to non-liquid movement, which eliminates any conflict with cum-related things, leaving only eggs, vore, and maybe feces or some sort of sex toy.
For liquids, one could use Exchange, as they would tend to not only go one-way and will often mix together.
I might also propose that an easy fix to the cock vored prey being pushed into another orifice being labeled as something like "Vore_Ejaculation" or "Vore_Expulsion", which also applies to those rare few images where a character becomes un-vored without excrement/vomit (outside of vaginal, which is "birth").

Even if transfer were to be limited to fluids, those same issues may come up. Eggs are already in a strange position with ovipositors, but which of these should be egg_transfer?

post #2108482 post #1672576 post #2170184

I think there's just no wat to make transfer work without putting arbitrary limitations on it or making it generic to the point where we need tags like penis_to_mouth_cum_transfer, which, uh... is a thing that could exist, I'm just not sure how well it would work and how much anyone would actually want that.

For the time being, I'll just open a BUR for exchange and related tags. Most of the stuff I wanted transfer to cover in the OP are already covered by either prey_transfer or transfer_birthing or by one of the *_exchange tags, and anything transfer could cover beyond that is far beyond what I'm willing to push forward at the moment.

For the sake of specificity, I'll narrow down *_exchange to require that the source be cumming/peeing/etc. in order to put these tricky examples out of scope (they wouldn't appear to qualify judging by the name "exchange", but the last definition I proposed would include them still):
post #266119 post #2287935 post #224110

Which fit cum_in_penis as well as the currently proposed definition for cum_exchange, but where the name cum_exchange may be misleading.

I'm also requiring that the destination be someone else in order to rule out this post in particular, which has cum_in_own_penis:
post #406225

• transfer
• same-orifice_transfer: "Something transitionning from one character to the other via the same orifice on both sides."
• oral_transfer: "Something transitionning from one character to the other through both of their mouths."
• anal_transfer: "Something transitionning from one character to the other through both of their anuses."
• vaginal_transfer: "Something transitionning from one character to the other through both of their vaginas."
• urethral_transfer: "Something transitionning from one character to the other through both of their urethras."
• transfer_birthing: "Giving birth into someone else" (implies birth_play)
• prey_transfer (implies vore)

• output_exchange
• bodily_fluid_exchange
• cum_exchange: "Cumming into someone else's penis and into their balls" (implies cum_in_penis, suggests penis_in_penis, cum_inflation and balls_inflation)
• urine_exchange: "Urinating into someone else's urethra and into their bladder" (suggests urine, urine_inflation and bladder_inflation)
• milk_exchange: "Lactating into someone else's nipples and into their breasts" (suggest milk, nipple_penetration and breast_expansion)
• vomit_exchange: "Vomiting into someone else's mouth and into their stomach" (implies vomiting)
• feces_exchange: "Defecating into someone else's anus and into their bowels" (implies pooping suggest feces, ass_to_ass)
• egg_exchange: "Ovipositorizing(?) eggs into someone else's ovipositor" (implies ovipositor, possibly egg_from_ovipositor)

The fluids being exchanged are not included in the implication chain for the reasons highlighted in topic #26655.

Using same-orifice_transfer avoids cluttering transfer, given it has no solid definition at the moment. No implications will be made to transfer and the tag will be cleared.

is the best name I could find for a supertag of bodily_fluid_exchange and egg_exchange. I also considered "transplant" and "decanting" as alternate names, but exchange seemed like the least confusing one.

The tags you suggest seem like they will heavily overlap, which is fine. I hope you don't mind if I tag tube related stuff as transfer too.

Also I really don't advise getting rid of throat transfer as it refers to tentacles. The original definition should be preserved as a subtag of some capacity.

I would be careful about some of those implications. Will everything tagged as cum_exchange meet the definition of inflation?

One of the case examples for the cum_exchange wiki, I don't understand why it is tagged as such nor do I see any kind of cum inflation in it.

post #1977495

thevileone said:
The tags you suggest seem like they will heavily overlap, which is fine. I hope you don't mind if I tag tube related stuff as transfer too.

That's intended, yes, hence why I'll make them part of the same BUR.

Also I really don't advise getting rid of throat transfer as it refers to tentacles. The original definition should be preserved as a subtag of some capacity.

It says "usually a tentacle", but it's hardly more or less specific than the current definition for oral_exchange.

I would be careful about some of those implications. Will everything tagged as cum_exchange meet the definition of inflation?

One of the case examples for the cum_exchange wiki, I don't understand why it is tagged as such nor do I see any kind of cum inflation in it.

post #1977495

Cum_exchange doesn't imply inflation, it's merely suggested (sorry if the way I wrote it makes it a bit confusing). You can also see cum leaking slightly where the shafts meet.

Compare that image with its parent, which wouldn't recieve cum_exchange:

post #1977493

The bulk update request #516 is pending approval.

Reason: Following the discussion in topic #27963.

Should result in the following tag trees, plus appropriate implications:

• same-orifice_transfer
• oral_transfer (alias throat_transfer)
• anal_transfer (implies anal)
• vaginal_transfer (implies vaginal)
• urethral_transfer (implies urethral)
• cloacal_transfer (implies cloacal)
• transfer_birthing (implies birth_play)
• prey_transfer (implies vore)

• output_exchange
• bodily_fluid_exchange
• cum_exchange (implies cum_in_penis, ejaculation)
• urine_exchange (implies peeing)
• milk_exchange (implies lactating)
• vomit_exchange (implies vomit)
• feces_exchange (implies pooping)
• egg_exchange (implies ovipositor)

Should cloacal transfer imply cloacal? Vaginal transfer imply vaginal?

thevileone said:
Should cloacal transfer imply cloacal? Vaginal transfer imply vaginal?

You're right, edited the BUR. I left out oral since most other tags with oral in the name (such as oral_vore) leave it out, but I added the rest.