Topic: [REJECTED] Bandannas, Headkerchiefs, and Neckerchiefs: Revised

The bulk update request #211 has been rejected.

Reason: -Headkerchiefs and neckerchiefs are both subcategories of bandannas and should imply such.

-Color tags.

EDIT: The bulk update request #211 (forum #294918) has been rejected by @Millcore.

That isn't the correct relationship.

- kerchief
-- bandanna (may be neckerchief, or headkerchief)
-- handkerchief
-- shemagh (may be neckerchief or headkerchief)

This technically would be the most accurate, but the terms could be simplified by calling a shemagh a bandanna even if that isn't technically accurate.

Visit topic #26806 (kerchief BUR) and topic #26944 (kerchief BUR pt. 2)...

The bulk update request #211 (forum #294918) has been rejected by @Millcore.

Why was this rejected? What exactly is supposed to be the difference between a bandanna and a headkerchief/neckerchief, can anyone explain it? I'm so confused. The wiki states that headkerchiefs/neckerchiefs are subcategories of bandanna (I know we should take it with a grain of salt because anybody can edit the wiki, but this categorization makes enough sense to me personally).

Wikipedia actually considers bandanna to be a synonym of kerchief. Imo either:

• Neckerchief and headkerchief should be made to imply bandanna as an umbrella tag (and bandanna still implies the wider umbrella tag kerchief)
• OR bandanna should be aliased to kerchief, and headkerchief/neckerchief/handkerchief/shemagh continue to imply kerchief

wandering_spaniel said:
Why was this rejected? What exactly is supposed to be the difference between a bandanna and a headkerchief/neckerchief, can anyone explain it? I'm so confused. The wiki states that headkerchiefs/neckerchiefs are subcategories of bandanna (I know we should take it with a grain of salt because anybody can edit the wiki, but this categorization makes enough sense to me personally).

Wikipedia actually considers bandanna to be a synonym of kerchief. Imo either:

• Neckerchief and headkerchief should be made to imply bandanna as an umbrella tag (and bandanna still implies the wider umbrella tag kerchief)
• OR bandanna should be aliased to kerchief, and headkerchief/neckerchief/handkerchief/shemagh continue to imply kerchief

can we just alias all of them into one tag (except probably shemagh)

strikerman said:
can we just alias all of them into one tag (except probably shemagh)

I think there's value in being able to separate head bandannas (headkerchief) vs neck bandannas (neckerchief) vs hankies for blowing your nose (handkerchiefs) - but bandanna vs kerchief baffles me

wandering_spaniel said:
I think there's value in being able to separate head bandannas (headkerchief) vs neck bandannas (neckerchief) vs hankies for blowing your nose (handkerchiefs) - but bandanna vs kerchief baffles me

I was about to complain about how moving an accessory to different parts of your body doesn't make it a different item, but I just realized we also tag bracelets and anklets and arm wraps and leg wraps and arm_warmers and leg warmers... I guess these should be fine too.

(i genuinely wrote all that out before i stumbled onto this old post)

More relevantly, I think the split is because a handkerchief counts as a kerchief but not a bandanna. I'm not sure that split's really worth having separate tags, but at the very least it's food for thought

strikerman said:
More relevantly, I think the split is because a handkerchief counts as a kerchief but not a bandanna. I'm not sure that split's really worth having separate tags, but at the very least it's food for thought

Wikipedia describes a handkerchief as "a form of kerchief or bandanna" lol

wandering_spaniel said:
Wikipedia describes a handkerchief as "a form of kerchief or bandanna" lol

That contradicts our current definition for a handkerchief (per the wiki page)

Handkerchiefs can't be worn like a bandanna due to their smallness. Use the tags headkerchief and neckerchief instead.

But like that doesn't really matter. We can edit the page then lump the kerchief and bandanna tags together

strikerman said:
That contradicts our current definition for a handkerchief (per the wiki page)

But like that doesn't really matter. We can edit the page then lump the kerchief and bandanna tags together

Agreed. I'll make a BUR later if nobody else gets to it first

I'd prefer kerchief instead of bandanna simply because the other position/type tags use *kerchief. If they really are the same, then I'd prefer to move taggers' thinking over to a standardized name, maybe they would tag neckerchief more than just bandanna -> kerchief. That's the case most of the time, and it's a more specific tag. I didn't like these tags at first either, but they're useful enough so I was wrong. Pretty big difference between a neckerchief and a headkerchief.

The bulk update request #7656 is active.

Reason: See above discussion. Bandanna and kerchief are synonyms and as far as I can see, the bandanna tag is currently just a useless assortment of different types of kerchiefs that should be under the other subtags. No need to worry about the handkerchief implication, hankies are still a type of kerchief or bandanna.

(will need to edit some wiki pages after)

After:

alias bandanna -> kerchief
alias bandana -> kerchief
alias monotone_bandanna -> monotone_kerchief
alias brown_bandanna -> brown_kerchief
alias green_bandanna -> green_kerchief
alias grey_bandanna -> grey_kerchief
alias gray_bandanna -> grey_kerchief
alias orange_bandanna -> orange_kerchief
alias pink_bandanna -> pink_kerchief
alias purple_bandanna -> purple_kerchief
alias red_bandanna -> red_kerchief
alias tan_bandanna -> tan_kerchief
alias white_bandanna -> white_kerchief
alias yellow_bandanna -> yellow_kerchief
alias dark_bandanna -> dark_kerchief
alias light_bandanna -> light_kerchief
alias multicolored_bandanna -> multicolored_kerchief
alias two_tone_bandanna -> two_tone_kerchief
alias rainbow_bandanna -> rainbow_kerchief
alias black_bandanna -> black_kerchief
alias blue_bandanna -> blue_kerchief
alias bandanna_only -> kerchief_only
alias pattern_bandanna -> pattern_kerchief
alias striped_bandanna -> striped_kerchief
alias spotted_bandanna -> spotted_kerchief

alias plaid_bandanna -> plaid_kerchief
alias checkered_bandanna -> checkered_kerchief

EDIT: The bulk update request #7656 (forum #401433) has been approved by @spe.

The bulk update request #7657 is active.

Reason: continued

EDIT: The bulk update request #7657 (forum #401434) has been approved by @spe.

The bulk update request #7659 is active.

remove implication checkered_bandanna (4) -> checkered_kerchief (60)

Reason: continued

EDIT: The bulk update request #7659 (forum #401436) has been approved by @spe.

wandering_spaniel said:

Reason: See above discussion. Bandanna and kerchief are synonyms and as far as I can see, the bandanna tag is currently just a useless assortment of different types of kerchiefs that should be under the other subtags. No need to worry about the handkerchief implication, hankies are still a type of kerchief or bandanna.

(will need to edit some wiki pages after)

After:

alias bandanna -> kerchief
alias bandana -> kerchief
alias monotone_bandanna -> monotone_kerchief
alias brown_bandanna -> brown_kerchief
alias green_bandanna -> green_kerchief
alias grey_bandanna -> grey_kerchief
alias gray_bandanna -> grey_kerchief
alias orange_bandanna -> orange_kerchief
alias pink_bandanna -> pink_kerchief
alias purple_bandanna -> purple_kerchief
alias red_bandanna -> red_kerchief
alias tan_bandanna -> tan_kerchief
alias white_bandanna -> white_kerchief
alias yellow_bandanna -> yellow_kerchief
alias dark_bandanna -> dark_kerchief
alias light_bandanna -> light_kerchief
alias multicolored_bandanna -> multicolored_kerchief
alias two_tone_bandanna -> two_tone_kerchief
alias rainbow_bandanna -> rainbow_kerchief
alias black_bandanna -> black_kerchief
alias blue_bandanna -> blue_kerchief
alias bandanna_only -> kerchief_only
alias pattern_bandanna -> pattern_kerchief
alias striped_bandanna -> striped_kerchief
alias spotted_bandanna -> spotted_kerchief

alias plaid_bandanna -> plaid_kerchief
alias checkered_bandanna -> checkered_kerchief

Hmm, do we want monotone_kerchief

snpthecat said:
Hmm, do we want monotone_kerchief

Eh....

Maybe not. If others agree, I can remove that one

Bumping, is this ready to go through? (We can always scrap monotone after)

(Also for anyone concerned about light/dark_*, that has its own BUR here: topic #43804. That one hasn't gone through, so that's why I'm including light/dark_kerchief here)

Bumping again, would love to get some more eyes

The bulk update request #7656 (forum #401433) has been approved by @spe.

The bulk update request #7657 (forum #401434) has been approved by @spe.

The bulk update request #7659 (forum #401436) has been approved by @spe.

I wanted to say that bandanas are usually printed with paisley patterns while regular kerchiefs are not (thus a bandana being a type of kerchief - the Wikipedia article describes it this way, anyhow), but looking at the actual usage of the bandana tag, I wasn't able to find a single post with said pattern by skimming the first few pages, so that distinction would probably be impossible to maintain anyway.

The bulk update request #9389 is active.

Reason: Followup

We can use paisley_kerchief for that pattern perhaps

EDIT: The bulk update request #9389 (forum #421005) has been approved by @spe.

The bulk update request #9390 is active.

create alias plaid_bandanna (3) -> plaid_kerchief (81)
create alias checkered_bandanna (4) -> checkered_kerchief (60)
remove alias multi_tone_bandanna (1) -> multicolored_bandanna (0)

Reason: Followup

Edit: this one needs to be done first, there was a lingering blocked transitive in the other one

EDIT: The bulk update request #9390 (forum #421006) has been approved by @spe.

The bulk update request #9390 (forum #421006) has been approved by @spe.

The bulk update request #9389 (forum #421005) has been approved by @spe.