Hi, so I'm new to this site, well, relatively, and have been using Source Filmmaker as well as DAZ/Poser for the past year or so. I've undoubtedly gotten better over the months and finally decided to sign up here. However, I fear that I have made a big mistake in that regard. How so? Well, it's simple, mostly. Naturally, I want to share my art on art sites, expressing my fetishes if you will, however, I fear the more art I upload, the more and more downvotes it gets. To make matter worse, I don't even know what it is about the art that is causing people to downvote. I don't care if there are problems with my art, I really don't, but what irks me is if I don't know what the problem(s) is/are, how can I hope to correct them and improve my art even more?

Well, do you have any examples to offer?

SirBrownBear said:
Well, do you have any examples to offer?

Yeah, I do as a matter of fact. Now keep in mind that 3D is my only medium for now, and apparently, that's deeply frowned upon on here for reasons that I can't control. That being said, I fear I made a huge mistake posting 3D art on here from SFM, which is also frowned upon, apparently, I don't know why. Suffice to say, it's kinda hampering what should be a positive experience on here, but shield your eyes, it's pretty bad XDD

https://e621.net/post/show/688528/2013-3d-anthro-apartment-breasts-cgi-charmeleon-cl

https://e621.net/post/show/688138/2015-3d-argonian-big_breasts-breasts-cgi-cum-cum_b

yeah I'm not allowed to upload art here because of how bad my ate is but that's not bad art that you posted

Yeah, most can't really wrap themselves around the look of 3d models. But there's nothing especially bad with your art.

3D stuff is generally disliked for various reasons that even I'm not sure about. If you want a good measure of your work quality, image scores aren't the way to go.

The difference between your approved uploads and others which get removed is that yours don't seem to have any rendering errors. Keep in mind that I'm no expert in 3D (or any visual art), and I don't notice mistakes unless they're extreme or I spend a great amount of time looking for them. Your best source of criticism would be from others who share your craft.

If you'd like to know what sort of stuff does and doesn't get approved, here's one discussion on certain 3D works. I use the word 'discussion' lightly, but there are some good points in that thread. You could always browse the rest of the forum for other opinions.

I'll say one thing about your images: they don't look dead. Granted, it's my opinion that the majority of works using SFM, Gmod, SecondLife and the like look like pictures of mildly-adjustable action figures. At the very least, it looks like you put some thought into posing them and, as a result, they look kind of alive.

fox_whisper85 said:
Yeah, I do as a matter of fact. Now keep in mind that 3D is my only medium for now, and apparently, that's deeply frowned upon on here for reasons that I can't control. That being said, I fear I made a huge mistake posting 3D art on here from SFM, which is also frowned upon, apparently, I don't know why. Suffice to say, it's kinda hampering what should be a positive experience on here, but shield your eyes, it's pretty bad XDD

https://e621.net/post/show/688528/2013-3d-anthro-apartment-breasts-cgi-charmeleon-cl

https://e621.net/post/show/688138/2015-3d-argonian-big_breasts-breasts-cgi-cum-cum_b

Not bad at all, keep at it.

aurel said:
"my art" *cough cough* did nothing more than pose the models from other people... surroundings... well... ITS FROM FUCKING HALF LIFE 2
(just uhh... the camera of this screenshot was facing the other way...but look at the buildings on screenshots left, and posts right)

I find it interesting that if a traditional artist took a background from another artist's work, it would be called plagarism. Likewise, if you trace the positions of some characters and reskin them, plagarism. If you reuse essentially anything from another artist's work, especially without citation, plagarism. Even edits are often frowned upon.

But the 3d equivalent of all of these things seems to be standard operating procedure.

I'm not going to get in a debate about what makes something "art". You can call 3d stuff art all you like and I won't complain. But I won't respect the artists unless they at the very least meet the bare minimum standards that any traditional artist would be held to.

Until then, I'll treat your art the same as I would the art of someone who traced some characters, copy-pasted some different features on top, and then put the whole thing on a plagiarized background.

To put it another way, I deeply frown upon your 3d art for reasons that are absolutely within your control.

That said, I am not rendering any final judgment upon you as a person. I am sorry that you haven't had a positive experience here, and I'm sorry that I'm probably contributing to your negative experience, but I'd rather you at least understand why I, and some others, dislike the majority of 3d art, rather than thinking "oh it's just some crazy bias out of my control".

fox_whisper85 said:
Big fucking deal, go bitch about it to someone who cares.

You ASKED for input. If you ask for critique and get butthurt when people are harsh, that's your problem. You didn't even make anything; you just took screenshots. What sort of reaction did you expect?

fox_whisper85 said:
Then what the hell do you want me to do about it? How is it "in my control" when I can't even make 3D models at all, like, it would take months for me to get good at that.

Do you think a matter of months is way too long a timeframe to become a good artist? Seriously? I'd like to meet a single decent 2D artist who would agree that "months" is not a very SHORT span of time to learn to draw. If it's such an absurdly long time for a 3D "artist" to develop their skills, don't be surprised that the medium is not accepted.

fox_whisper85 said:
Then what the hell do you want me to do about it? How is it "in my control" when I can't even make 3D models at all, like, it would take months for me to get good at that.

Man, this place sucks.

It takes months to get any good at traditional art as well. I don't see why you not wanting to put in any effort into learning a new skill is in any way my problem.

You ask why people downvote your art, and when I try to explain as best I can you get pissed off. Did you not want a genuine answer? Were you just hoping for sympathy?

I'm done here. Any person, not artist, but person, who takes freely available 3D assets, poses them, takes a rendering screenshot, gives credit to those who makes a model and still get chided and told off, is not welcome here. I see how it is, I never should have signed up here, but no, I stupidly did and stupidly assumed that 3D would be accepted here, but it's not, it's frowned up in all sense of the imagination. Well, time to make like tree and get out.

fox_whisper85 said:
gives credit to those who makes a model

Nowhere on any of the images linked in this thread was any citation or credit to any other artists or model makers, nor any explanation of where the models or backgrounds game from, nor any link to a source which could have provided said information.

Once again, see the final paragraph of my last post.

Anyway, goodbye.

Clawdragons said:
Nowhere on any of the images linked in this thread was any citation or credit to any other artists or model makers, nor any explanation of where the models or backgrounds game from, nor any link to a source which could have provided said information.

Once again, see the final paragraph of my last post.

Anyway, goodbye.

So, would things be different if I started adding the sources for the models?
I'm human and I simply forgot to add citation, would things be different if I added them?

fox_whisper85 said:
So, would things be different if I started adding the sources for the models?
I'm human and I simply forgot to add citation, would things be different if I added them?

If you included and explained who created the models and backgrounds, and stated that your role in the picture was positioning and screenshotting, yes, I would not be nearly so harsh in my criticism, as my largest issue (plagiarism) would no longer apply to you.

However, as far as upvotes and downvotes go, I can't say that would be any different. I rarely vote on art one way or another, and I suspect that most people are downvoting your art because it is not to their tastes.

Again, I can't speak for anyone else on the matter, but from me, at the very least, yes. You would have gotten a very different reception.

Clawdragons said:
If you included and explained who created the models and backgrounds, and stated that your role in the picture was positioning and screenshotting, yes, I would not be nearly so harsh in my criticism, as my largest issue (plagiarism) would no longer apply to you.

However, as far as upvotes and downvotes go, I can't say that would be any different. I rarely vote on art one way or another, and I suspect that most people are downvoting your art because it is not to their tastes.

Again, I can't speak for anyone else on the matter, but from me, at the very least, yes. You would have gotten a very different reception.

Oh man....I suddenly and inexplicably feel really sick to my stomach. I think anxiety is setting in, I think need to step out for a couple of hours :(

i've actually used SFM once and i can attest to the fact that shit cannot be quickly made if you want it to look good

especially if you want to animate in it....holy shit

fox_whisper85 said:
I'm done here. Any person, not artist, but person, who takes freely available 3D assets, poses them, takes a rendering screenshot, gives credit to those who makes a model and still get chided and told off, is not welcome here. I see how it is, I never should have signed up here, but no, I stupidly did and stupidly assumed that 3D would be accepted here, but it's not, it's frowned up in all sense of the imagination. Well, time to make like tree and get out.

And 3D isn't always hated. H0rs3's stuff is an example of 3D done right, and even his material looked robotic at first.

Compare his newer stuff (post #641367) to his older stuff (post #21076).

Knotty_Curls said:
And 3D isn't always hated. H0rs3's stuff is an example of 3D done right, and even his material looked robotic at first.

Compare his newer stuff (post #641367) to his older stuff (post #21076).

that's because H0rs3 uses more professional programs that are way more time-consuming to learn and work with
AND he also has a lot of practice

it's really like comparing jasonafex/kabier's art to Aurel's.

we have the professionals/hobbyists and then we have the people who just open up a less-serious program and want to make something with it. maybe in a year or two that person can count himself among the professionals/hobbyists because he got really good at it.

and besides, that whisper dude's stuff isn't even that bad. y'all are discouraging as fuck.

If we told them it's fine as it is, we would be lying and it would be the same as giving no criticism at all.

Knotty_Curls said:
And 3D isn't always hated. H0rs3's stuff is an example of 3D done right, and even his material looked robotic at first.

Compare his newer stuff (post #641367) to his older stuff (post #21076).

Okay, so, here's what I've decided to do. I will keep using SFM/DAZ, or what have you, but the main offender is a few things. One, the lighting, it's bad and this was brought to my attention. Three, the poses, I need to fix those, I'll keep on practicing, and I will credit the models, artists, and so, to avoid further issues. At one point, yes, I'll use Blender, Maya, but for now, I need to get better at posing the models and so on.

aurel said:
AW YEA! Good job guys, we have purified this 3d artist from this demonic taint, only about 70 to go..
..
hold on.. eeyup, he still thinks that posing will get him better.
Well, gl, I knew a pianist which learned to pilot a plane by playing piano. Once the pilot had a seizure and the pianist took over and landed the plane... saved everyone on board.. epic!
hold on...
ehhem.. yea.. oh.... oh my..
I was wondering why he would not call me in such a long time..

yea, the story is made up.. but im trying to make a point here!

Anyway.. im glad we kinda bended you.. but the last sentence seems like you are off to do the same thing you were doing before.. sooo..
...meh..

Whatever you say.

aurel said:
AW YEA! Good job guys, we have purified this 3d artist from this demonic taint, only about 70 to go..

With absolutely no credits to you and your rambling.

NotMeNotYou said:
With absolutely no credits to you and your rambling.

Apply cold water to burned area :3 If I could like post, I would.

guys if you really want 3d art around the internet to improve, then make your own high-quality 3D models and release them for free around the internet.

'bad' 3d porn is a mix of a lot of things but mainly bad lighting, clipping, and low-res textures/low-poly models

the first two can be fixed via practice, the latter cannot unless the artist can find make or purchase better models to use.

Dragonlayer said:
guys if you really want 3d art around the internet to improve, then make your own high-quality 3D models and release them for free around the internet.

'bad' 3d porn is a mix of a lot of things but mainly bad lighting, clipping, and low-res textures/low-poly models

the first two can be fixed via practice, the latter cannot unless the artist can find make or purchase better models to use.

Right, I see where you're coming from, but as it stands right now, I need to get better at lighting and posing before I dare to delve into model-making. At one point, yes, I can make models from scratch, however, if I can't master proper lighting and posing techniques, the chances of me making any 3D models are slim to none, to be brutally honest as the two do indeed go hand-in-hand...at least, that's how I see things.

In the mean time, I will be using other freely-available assets as I've said before, however, I will be also crediting them (links for the downloads, giving them full credit), but also leaning how to improve composition, avoiding clipping and other conflicting issues with that which I post. So yes, I do agree with you. :)

So yeah, I do indeed agree with your sentiments, and yeah, bad posing, conflicting elements (low poly models with high-quality textures), I however, don't use low poly models inasmuch as I possibly can. Practice, practice, practice, I can't give up.

Aurel, you're being a dick. Seriously. This fellow has made some pretty big strides, and wants to genuinely improve in the areas he's lacking, solve the issue that is the largest problem (the citation), and is considering taking a look at model creation in the future. I count at least three kudos there, four or more if you count how rare proper citation is. Find someone else to be a dick to.

Fox Whisper, seriously, good on you for what you've resolved to work on. It will both time and effort in large amounts, but I do genuinely hope for your success.

Clawdragons said:
Aurel, you're being a dick. Seriously. This fellow has made some pretty big strides, and wants to genuinely improve in the areas he's lacking, solve the issue that is the largest problem (the citation), and is considering taking a look at model creation in the future. I count at least three kudos there, four or more if you count how rare proper citation is. Find someone else to be a dick to.

Fox Whisper, seriously, good on you for what you've resolved to work on. It will both time and effort in large amounts, but I do genuinely hope for your success.

Thank you for saying that, it means a lot to me. Yes, mistakes were made, everyone makes them, and I, more than others. However, admitting mistakes and admitting fault is never easy, no, but I recognize the mistakes I've made. Yes, it is painful, very painful and I learned some harsh lessons today. Sometimes, we have to learn the painful way, so, I choose to do better.

aurel said:
Oh well, I'm out! This is starting to feel like bashing my head against the wall.. soo, the time shall tell was I right or wrong.

And NMNY got annoyed and showed me a red card. k out.
...wait? really nmny... really?

Aurel, Start loving others and do not be rude to them,
AND THEN NO NEED TO THINK OF NMNY!!! XD

alirezatm said:
Aurel, Start loving others and do not be rude to them,
AND THEN NO NEED TO THINK OF NMNY!!! XD

Agreed, always felt some sort of rude vibe with his posts, more or less.

aurel said:
And NMNY got annoyed and showed me a red card. k out.
...wait? really nmny... really?

That was just a fix, the record should have been a negative from the very beginning, I just created it wrong.

Can someone please help me, I got my art randomly deleted for not being good enough

Jordin03 said:
Can someone please help me, I got my art randomly deleted for not being good enough

https://e621.net/forum/show/235851

People really need to start reading stickys :/