Normally "TWYS" works very well, but sometimes the "Tag what you see" system just flat out pisses me off.

As someone who greatly enjoys femboys, it hides a LOT of pictures from me and I mean a LOT. Probably in the hundreds at this point pictures of femboys that I can't find because TWYS is being stupid about it.

The example that made me post about this -tonight/thismorning- is this:

post #347814

As someone in the comments said:
You know what I see? I see a female with female facial features female body type female anatomy but tagged as no gender? Wtf? This makes no sense. Now if I search the tags "snow_leopard female solo tasteful nudity" (Added in the TN to narrow down search for this image exactly) Instead of finding the type of body I want to see (female body type) I end up with nothing? I don't see this picture of a character that is very clearly female from both artist notes and in the picture, because people are being anal about TWYS?

Same thing with the posts like this:
post #783508

The grey bunnys name is "Thumper" it's a male character -normally- and ignoring that information, there is nothing here to suggest the character is NOT his normal gender (EX: Seeing a vagina/breasts or something) So logic says this should be tagged as male because if you search "bunny" mixed with "Male and Cub" You don't get this image even tho you wanted to see an image with a young (cub) male bunny in it. It's just silly this character historically speaking is male so why is he called female/ambi when there is nothing to suggest he might be female in this pic?

Furthermore:
post #437607
The character on the left (purple shirt) is historically speaking female. Now in this picture, she has a flat chest basically and I guess kinda a bulge in the underwear but not enough to be 100% about it. TWYS says she should be tagged as "girly" like the -boy- on the right (green) But she's tagged as her proper gender which is Female. Which is a good thing, this is how she should be tagged because her character is female.

This being said, TWYS also dictates that the character on the right (green) should be tagged as ambig because it's a character that historically is male, but since there is no bulge in the shirt or the (shorts?) There is no proof to either gender and he is quite girly (being a femboy) So he ends up being tagged as ambig because you don't know by looking at him but historically (and based on the flat chest) he should be tagged girly which he is. TWYS says this is wrong, but every tag in the pic is correct because people ignored TWYS

Also:
post #721381

Artist is here in these comments, and is forced to tag "mana" the blue one in bottom left, as a dickgirl not because that is what the character is, but because that is what you "See"??? This is a comic we're talking about in all other sexual pages you see her tagged properly but the one time you don't and you no longer get the proper tag? What if someone has "dickgirl" blacklisted for some strange reason but not "Herm" now what? They will most likely not see this comic page unless they actualy click on the pool and they might miss an entire update because TWYS is bullshit sometimes.

TL:DR

Tag what you see should only be implemented if there is no direct information or if something in the picture hints otherwise. If there is direct reason to think something is not what historically (Background info based) is, then TWYS should take effect but too many times are pictures never shown to the people who want to see them just because TWYS is super anal about everything and is just a terrible system in general.

I plan on at some point uploading my own stuff 100% of which is gonna be femboys and I don't want this stupid tag system fucking up my uploads for anyone who (in their delusional state) might want to see them (God knows why) I don't wana see 1000 posts of a character all of which are tagged as female or male or whatever, suddenly be labeled otherwise with no evidence to the contrary.

-----------------------------------------

I'm going to bed now it's almost 10am I'll answer and ridiculous arguments for TWYS when I get back. Also provide example images if you can.

TWYS Is stupid imho and I think context and information already known about the character should override twys. twys as a system should be used as a fallback when no other information can be associated with a picture. Say a picture sourced from inkbunny has tags female for a character not showing any lady bits, it should be tagged as female!

+1 for your argument. TWYS is good but it HAS to be revised and changed moving foward.

please no. TWYS is best the way it is

TWYS pisses off everyone until it wins an argument for someone, but by this point it's already ingrained too deep into the site. Changing to something else would be a lot of upfront work, that nobody seems to wanna do, for a moderate payoff that would just arouse new problems.

A vast majority of images aren't uploaded by their author. Some uploaders can't be bothered to tag more than 4 posts much less research every character to get them accurately tagged.

Then you have artists who want to have the special-est snowflake then make up some weird gender for it. Makes it easier to cut down the rabble and say 'This is masculine and only has a dick, it's male.'

I got fucked over by TWYS earlier this month, so I'm going to wholeheartedly support TWYS. It's a system of e621 that works with the least amount of resistance, as long as the image itself is tagged properly.

If it's such a problem, then just add ambiguous_gender to your searches.

2 out of 4 examples (1st & 3rd) are tagged badly because people can't tag properly based on TWYS and instead do some bullshit they think is based on TWYS.

Seriously, the first one is a female, and only got tagged as ambiguous gender because someone who is 90% blind in both eyes (based on what they said themselves multiple times) decided that the "tag should actually be this, since you cant tell and i honestly...cant...tell".

The 3rd is a girly male on the right, because the body type clearly suggests male since there are 0 hips and no breasts.

For the other two, thumper being ambiguous is rather a fringe case since ferals are hard to tag either way since they seldom have such blatant sexual dimorphism like humans have, and the pool is literally just one page without herm, if the reader can't figure out that he is going from page 15 to page 17 then we can't help them. Pool navigation ignores the blacklist or any searches, and the pool page does the same.
At this point a real subscription to pools would be much more beneficial to everybody than having tags rolling over into pages they don't belong to.

Also, every time you say "TWYS also dictates that the character X should be tagged as Y because it's a character that historically is..." Baby Jesus dies a little more, as that is exactly not how tag what you see works.

TWYS has its flaws, and causes some drama.

TWYS causes way less drama than the flame / tag wars of the past over things such as gender, as it is a tool that provides a uniform structure for tagging, and allows for (usually) definitive decisions by moderators in the case of a dispute.

TWYS is the reason E6 is as popular as it is.
Easy to find what you're looking for.

I'd wager a lot of the regular uploaders, taggers and users would bail on the site if TWYS was removed.
Reforming the rule in some way might be good for longevity as things changes, but I've yet to see a decent enough suggestion worthy of discussion.

convenient how another twys thread has popped up as i just found 2 tags that have left me wondering how the heck they even begin to work with twys.

post #533495 immortality and full-length portrait

define full-length portrait... and how the heck do you get immortality from 2 alien girls fucking a male lizard?

My biggest problem with TWYS is, honestly, this:

NotMeNotYou said:
Seriously, the first one is a female, and only got tagged as ambiguous gender because someone who is 90% blind in both eyes (based on what they said themselves multiple times) decided that the "tag should actually be this, since you cant tell and i honestly...cant...tell".

I have no problem, at all, with admins handing down pronouncements on what should be tagged for gender for a character. And users should follow those pronouncements. But I do have a problem when the attitude they take is "well you're stupid, blind, or don't understand the policy if you thought it was anything but this". And yet I feel like often that's the attitude that's taken by a lot of admins when settling a dispute.

Just as there is a line between masculine and feminine that results in the ambiguous_gender tag being necessary, so too is there a line between ambiguous gender and male / female which results in tagging disputes. It's not a clear cut line either, but rather, a gradient.

So basically my point is, sometimes I see admins taking a condescending tone towards users who are trying their best to implement TWYS. And that bothers me. Again, I totally understand handing down pronouncements about a particular picture, but I also think that can be done without treating everyone who disagreed with the eventually decided tag as ignorant or blind for falling on the other side of a subjective tag discussion.

Also! On that note, I've been wondering. I've seen a few cases where someone has been slapped with a record for changing the gender on an image where an admin had already settled the issue. Sometimes these images have hundreds of comments, and I wonder if it just might not be apparent to a user that there was a moderator decision made?

So to that end, do you think there is any value in a moderator_dictated_gender tag, or something along those lines, such that the tags themselves would indicate that the comments are relevant for how to tag the image? Requiring a user check the comments of every post they edit seems like a somewhat unreasonable standard, when most of the time they are rather irrelevant, but requiring a user to check the tags before editing the tags seems like a self-evident rule.

NotMeNotYou said:
Seriously, the first one is a female, and only got tagged as ambiguous gender because someone who is 90% blind in both eyes (based on what they said themselves multiple times) decided that the "tag should actually be this, since you cant tell and i honestly...cant...tell".

It looks ambiguous_gender to me. There are no definining features on "it" that tells me its female.

I'd change the tag myself, but I don't want to.

Clawdragons said:
My biggest problem with TWYS is, honestly, this:

I do have a problem when the attitude they take is "well you're stupid, blind, or don't understand the policy if you thought it was anything but this". And yet I feel like often that's the attitude that's taken by a lot of admins when settling a dispute.

That isn't a personal put-down at all - if a user says they're blind, then what business do they have tagging an image when they themselves aren't 100% certain?

Clawdragons said:
My biggest problem with TWYS is, honestly, this:

I have no problem, at all, with admins handing down pronouncements on what should be tagged for gender for a character. And users should follow those pronouncements. But I do have a problem when the attitude they take is "well you're stupid, blind, or don't understand the policy if you thought it was anything but this". And yet I feel like often that's the attitude that's taken by a lot of admins when settling a dispute.

Sadly, that wasn't a personal attack against the user. Just have a look at the first line on the profile.
I fully appreciate people trying to help, but if it's hard for them to see details they should probably stop trying to tag details. This is an issue that has been going on for years with Esme, I can't tell you how often I and the others had to discuss this with her.
The line I quoted is also taken from the tag history description, I am not putting words into Esme's mouth at all, just check the link.

At least that has gotten better the last few months.

Clawdragons said:
Also! On that note, I've been wondering. I've seen a few cases where someone has been slapped with a record for changing the gender on an image where an admin had already settled the issue. Sometimes these images have hundreds of comments, and I wonder if it just might not be apparent to a user that there was a moderator decision made?

So to that end, do you think there is any value in a moderator_dictated_gender tag, or something along those lines, such that the tags themselves would indicate that the comments are relevant for how to tag the image? Requiring a user check the comments of every post they edit seems like a somewhat unreasonable standard, when most of the time they are rather irrelevant, but requiring a user to check the tags before editing the tags seems like a self-evident rule.

One day we'll hopefully have the ability to just lock specific tags on or off any submission, that would solve pretty much all problems we have with tagging disputes, and also reduce the number of records since people wouldn't be able ignore us anymore.
Also, most people who end up getting records for that have been adding and removing tags on that submission long enough that they know that we brought down judgement, but decide to ignore it because why would anyone listen to the people who can ban?

GameManiac said:
It looks ambiguous_gender to me. There are no definining features on "it" that tells me its female.

I'd change the tag myself, but I don't want to.

Hourglass figure and the hips are broader than the shoulders. That is a prime example of basic female physique.

TWYS prevents this:
AP = art piece
AP dispicts a clothed figure with breasts and no visible bulge
Outside knowledge says(Character owner) the figure is a herm, but it does not have a vagina. The clothes are loose clothing making it hard to see a bulge where the penis would be.

Person A thinks character in AP is herm due character owner saying it is a herm(despite the lack of vagina)
Person B thinks character in AP is a dickgirl because they call figures with both breasts and penis but no vagina a "dickgirl".
Person C thinks character in AP is female because they do not see a vagina or penis due to the clothing.

Person A, B, and C routinely change the tags between herm, dickgirl, and female, resulting in constant inconsistency and skewering of the search. And possible flame war in comments.

Although there are times I disagree with TWYS, I much prefer TWYS over TWYK(now)/TWYT(hink).

NotMeNotYou said:
Come to think of it, a sticky comment option to fix specific comments to the very top would be pretty cool as well.

I'm not really sure how easy this would be but if there was another box under the Description box named something like Admin notes or Admin actions then it would be a lot harder to miss. Since users have the ability to hide all comments they may miss the sticky comment unless it's always made visible to everyone all the time.

NotMeNotYou said:
Hourglass figure and the hips are broader than the shoulders. That is a prime example of basic female physique.

An hourglass figure doesn't guarantee gender. Its just a specified physical shape. If we tagged based on that, then we wouldn't be tagging what we're seeing. We'd be tagging what we're knowing.

The safest tag for that image is ambiguous_gender. There's not enough evidence to determine gender.

Edit: Well, it appears that the artist has labeled the character as female.

Shame. Damn shame. I was looking forward to getting into a heated debate about the gender perceived on ONE post.

DragonFox69 said:
I'm not really sure how easy this would be but if there was another box under the Description box named something like Admin notes or Admin actions then it would be a lot harder to miss. Since users have the ability to hide all comments they may miss the sticky comment unless it's always made visible to everyone all the time.

Code wise, not very hard. Getting users to scroll down and read comments before editing tags, maybe little bit hard.

#!/usr/bin/badpython3pseudocode
res = mysql.query(getCommentsQuery)
commentsHtml = ""
for comment in res:
    if comment.flags&BITFLAG_COMMENTS_ADMIN_STICKY:
        commentsHtml = generateCommentHtml(comment, customClass="NoHide AdminSticky") + commentsHtml
    else:
        commentsHtml = commentsHtml + generateCommentHtml(comment)

Just have to add like 2 lines of code and a bitflag.
And I think e621 uses ruby on rails instead of python, but it's almost the same amount of changes required.

Chaser said:
Getting users to scroll down and read comments before editing tags, maybe little bit hard.

Yeah, that's why I feel having it in it's own box may be a better option. It would would stand out more I feel.

Chaser said:
Code wise, not very hard.

Lots of stuff I don't understand.

Well I guess I'll have to take your word for it. lol :) (I suck at code. ^_^')

Mutisija said:
TWYS is best the way it is

Also this.

NotMeNotYou said:
Sadly, that wasn't a personal attack against the user. Just have a look at the first line on the profile.
I fully appreciate people trying to help, but if it's hard for them to see details they should probably stop trying to tag details. This is an issue that has been going on for years with Esme, I can't tell you how often I and the others had to discuss this with her.
The line I quoted is also taken from the tag history description, I am not putting words into Esme's mouth at all, just check the link.

I did not see that quote in the tag history description. I had checked the comments for it but hadn't see it there. I apologize for that part. Though the tone still came off as a bit condescending, with the added information of your past discussion, I can understand why now.

Also since you mentioned sexual dimorphism... It isn't that sexual dimorphism is less blatant in many animals other than humans, it is that humans are specifically adapted to notice differences in other humans compared to other animals, and to place more significance on those sorts of differences. Also artists often ignore those aspects of sexual dimorphism, such as when female deer (besides reindeer) are given antlers.

Realistically, differences in hip-size in humans is no more unique than differences in forearm length in Myotis nigricans. Humans are firmly middle-of-the-road when it comes to dimorphism. Again, naturally we emphasize our own differences more strongly compared to differences in other species, and that makes sense for tagging on this site, but you are going a bit far to say that they are any less blatant.

I think I'm in an argumentative mood today. I apologize for that. Though I think my points here stand, so I'm leaving them.

GameManiac said:
An hourglass figure doesn't guarantee gender. Its just a specified physical shape. If we tagged based on that, then we wouldn't be tagging what we're seeing. We'd be tagging what we're knowing.

The safest tag for that image is ambiguous_gender. There's not enough evidence to determine gender.

That isn't how it works, though. If we take a look at our almighty How to:Tag genders we see that all charts agree on one thing for this image:

We have a feminine build (as described above) and no genitalia, based on our chart it's female.
Also, "not a guarantee" is not something that can be considered for every single case because even a 99.9999% chance is "not a guarantee".
We still go after normal, read median, body types, and those say that in the majority of woman fatty tissues get allocated to the hips while in males they get allocated to the stomach area, causing the typical pear shaped or hour glass figures in females and the more rectangle / trapezoid like shapes in man.

Clawdragons said:
Realistically, differences in hip-size in humans is no more unique than differences in forearm length in Myotis nigricans. Humans are firmly middle-of-the-road when it comes to dimorphism. Again, naturally we emphasize our own differences more strongly compared to differences in other species, and that makes sense for tagging on this site, but you are going a bit far to say that they are any less blatant.

Less blatant to most users since the median of people are generally more exposed to humans of either gender than to animals, as well as no reason to properly identify the gender of an animal directly in front of them.
It can be learned to quickly ID animal gender but most people don't need that skill, thus it goes completely unhoned.

NotMeNotYou said:
That isn't how it works, though. If we take a look at our almighty How to:Tag genders we see that all charts agree on one thing for this image:

Parasprite's simplified Gender-tagging Flowchart

[...]

Penis or pussy?

[...]

• neither or rating:s -> male, female, ambiguous_gender
• Masuline or feminine body?
• Masculine -> male
• Feminine -> female
• Neither/both/unsure -> ambiguous_gender, featureless_crotch

Masculine (anthro, humanoid): Broad shoulders, thicker/flater eyebrows, squared jaw, prominant "adams apple", body fat distributed mostly to lower torso ("beer gut"/"apple shape"), facial hair (mustache, beard), thicker arm and body hair.

Feminine (anthro, humanoid): Usually smaller in proportion to masculine characters, wide hips and pelvis, more arched eyebrows, smaller hands/feet, breasts, body fat distributed to lower/mid torso and thighs ("pear shape").

We have a feminine build (as described above) and no genitalia, based on our chart it's female.
Also, "not a guarantee" is not something that can be considered for every single case because even a 99.9999% chance is "not a guarantee".
We still go after normal, read median, body types, and those say that in the majority of woman fatty tissues get allocated to the hips while in males they get allocated to the stomach area, causing the typical pear shaped or hour glass figures in females and the more rectangle / trapezoid like shapes in man.

I see what made her an admin on e621.

GameManiac said:
I see what made her an admin on e621.

It's almost like A LOT OF THOUGHT went into every aspect of TWYS in order to make it make e6 the only image site worth a damn, or something

Alright after reading all of these and having the admins be reasonable on several accounts (Such as the first picture posted the female snow leopard who is very clearly female)

But this brings up ANOTHER issue, anyone who tags a lot doesn't -actually- take TWYS seriously. They bend it ever so slightly to fit what looks like is correct. In a situation like the SL here (snow leopard) TWYS says ambi-gender but common sense says female so admins say they should put female as a tag.

But that's a huge issue because altho the admins have the right to say "Well common sense says this is a female" your extremely strict TWYS method means every single post on this website has some that is incorrect.

This means that every single post unless you can very clearly see every part of a persons body (Sexually speaking, vagina/dick/balls/ass/chest) unless you can see all of those things at the same time, every post based on twys should be ambi-gender.

For example:
post #795076

Doesn't appear to be any bulge in his pants it looks pretty flat to me unless he's the worlds best tuckjob. Sooooo TWYS says no way to confirm gender and therefor is ambi-gender.

Now common sense says this is male it looks like a male physically speaking there is just no dick visible but TWYS says there is no way to confirm gender based on this it could just be a really butch female soooo ambi-gender tag it is!

Furthermore:
post #793429

What if he's just a flat chested female? Shit happens people don't develop breasts in rare cases well I guess it's ambi-gender then cause you can't see a dick therefore can't confirm gender.

But better yet:
post #795123

Sure you can see a dick but you can't see if he has a vagina or not, sooo ambi-gender it is (and or male/ambi) cause you can't confirm he doesn't have a vagina and a penis at the same time. Ambi-gender tag incoming.

Common sense says tag male but because we can't confirm that I guess you should tag ambi cause you can't -see- if he has a vagina or not so there is no way to confirm if he's just a male soooo

Are those all -extreme- examples of the TWYS system being as hardcore as it possibly can be? Sure. Should you actually tag like that? Hell no. But if you were to strictly follow the TWYS system to the letter you would see ambi-gender on 90% of the posts here the only ones that would have concrete gender is if you could see almost the entire body at once.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The TWYS system works in a lot of cases, but sometimes it just flat out fucks with your ability to find certain images. I'm sure there are hundreds of images of the girly boys I wana see, that I never get to see because I don't search female related tags and female tags end up on male femboys because they look feminine. I'm sure this has to piss of people on the other side of the fence too, someone who blacklists "gay" and ends up seeing a comic with a girl getting fucked over a couch and says "hell yea! I wana see more!" then clicks on the next page and finds out its a femboy. Both sides of the tag searching must be hurting from this in a couple ways idk why we insist on sticking to it so harshly.

TL:DR

Do I think we need to keep TWYS? yes do I think we should be a lot less strict with it? absolutely Especially in cases where it's an ongoing comic, where in this exact picture we know it's not a gender swap we know it's not an alternate timeline or some shit where it is absolutely confirmed that this character is male/female/whatever the only thing stopping the tag is you can't see their vagina/dick/whatever we should ignore TWYS and tag for the reason people would actually want to see that picture.

Confirmed information should override tags unless there is absolutely no way to deny the information based tag. For example I just saw a picture of "blue" from JW and people in the tags were arguing cause blue in the picture was very clearly male with a dick and an asshole, but the person in question was trying to tag blue as female cause "in the movie shes female" this is an example were TWYS is good and is doing its job correctly. But if you were to take TWYS seriously in every instance, a picture that did not show "blues" sexual parts would be tagged as ambi-gender unless you took background information into account.

Cynosure, all 3 examples are bad, and you completely and utterly got it wrong how gender tagging under tag what you see works. Please carefully read https://e621.net/wiki/show?title=howto%3atag_genders and have a look how it works with your examples.
That page will easily tell you that tag what you see makes all 3 examples male, and nothing else.
I can give a more detailed answer tomorrow but right now it's 5am and I'm not willing to type up an essay at this time of the day.

Literally only the comic issue works like you make it out, everything else is not how TWYS works, at all.

NotMeNotYou said:
Cynosure, all 3 examples are bad, and you completely and utterly got it wrong how gender tagging under tag what you see works. Please carefully read https://e621.net/wiki/show?title=howto%3atag_genders and have a look how it works with your examples.
That page will easily tell you that tag what you see makes all 3 examples male, and nothing else.
I can give a more detailed answer tomorrow but right now it's 5am and I'm not willing to type up an essay at this time of the day.

Literally only the comic issue works like you make it out, everything else is not how TWYS works, at all.

Forgive me I'm gonna have to re-read my post in a second cause I made it like the first 2-3 minutes I had woken up and it's probably a completely delusional rant that makes no sense. I'll get back here in like an hour when I've woken up properly and try to see what kinda point I was trying to make.

fair enough

i have no idea what i'm trying to say in any post i make

Alright I think my point was (In my most recent wall of text) That you can't take the TWYS system too literally. If you do, no one is going to tag anything correctly in 90% of cases.

The TWYS system can be frustrating for both sides of the "fence"

If I'm enjoying a comic involving a femboy and suddenly one page is not tagged with "femboy" so I don't see it, that's bad for me I don't see what I want to see. But furthermore, if the femboy is now tagged as a female because you can't see their dick in one frame for some reason, now this happens:

Someone who has "gay" blacklisted now sees this image and goes on to check the rest of the comic and finds out the character is in fact very much so male and is just a femboy (girly) male. Now they're annoyed because the tagging system is super anal about everything and is just being stupid.

Yes, TWYS sometimes is useful. But in cases where we have 100% undeniable reason to believe something, but it's not exactly shown in the picture. We should not follow TWYS so strictly cause it just ruins the whole tag system.

I don't want to have to search "female solo" just in case one of them might actually be a femboy I'm looking for. And furthermore I don't think anyone who actually wants to search "Female solo" wants to sort through the occasional femboy mixed in there. I know I'm using femboys as the example 99% of the time but it's something I experience every single day, tag issues revolving around my preferred viewing content.

TWYS should only be resorted to when we have a reason to think the historical information may not be accurate in this exact case. Otherwise, historical information that has logical reason to be included in that exact picture should override TWYS.

Also secondary, is anyone else seeing weird spacing issues between some letters/words on my posts? I see a few but every time I try to re-edit them they remain the same...

Cynosure said:
Also secondary, is anyone else seeing weird spacing issues between some letters/words on my posts? I see a few but every time I try to re-edit them they remain the same...

That's just an issue that happens when you first post the post. No one else sees it, and it will generally go away if you refresh the page or something. Don't worry about it.

Historical information (from e621's pools, not from external sites or from comments on e621) should only be used if it can be properly cited. From one point of view, it totally makes sense to tag the same gender for a character throughout a single comic series (barring TF). OTOH when people encounter single comic pages (ie. not as part of paging through the pool), tagging wars would result if the reason for this 'nonstandard' tagging wasn't made clear.

For example, tying into the 'tag locking' idea, if an admin could lock 'femboy' ON for all posts in that pool, specifying a user-viewable reason for the lock "see other posts in pool #12345". That would make sense if multiple of the other posts in that pool showed explicit evidence that the tag was appropriate, and none of them showed evidence contradicting that tag.

TWYS is like.. the law (in terms of its effect). It actually mostly works to prevent the site from descending into tagging anarchy, which is an extremely strong reason to resort to it by default and require careful definition of any exceptions.

BTW: there is a known bug where when you post a message spaces appear to be removed from it. But try viewing in another window or refreshing -- the spaces are not actually removed, it's some kind of weird display bug occurring only at that time.

The issue with TWYS and pools is really more of an issue with pools than TWYS. Pools are untagged and unfilterable by themselves, and there's no way to tell what is in them without checking tags post by post.

Cynosure said:
Also secondary, is anyone else seeing weird spacing issues between some letters/words on my posts? I see a few but every time I try to re-edit them they remain the same...

Yup, it's confusing the first time you see it but fortunately it's just a temporary display bug, nobody actually sees it but you (refresh the page and your post will display correctly). I haven't figured out what causes it yet as it isn't reproducible offline. :(

I've only seen it on the forums though, so maybe that's a start.

parasprite said:
Yup, it's confusing the first time you see it but fortunately it's just a temporary display bug, nobody actually sees it but you (refresh the page and your post will display correctly). I haven't figured out what causes it yet as it isn't reproducible offline. :(

I've only seen it on the forums though, so maybe that's a start.

every single time i post a comment (well, not if it's under 5 words or something. then it doesn't happen much if at all.) or here on the forums but as you said, it's just a harmless display bug.

parasprite said:
The issue with TWYS and pools is really more of an issue with pools than TWYS. Pools are untagged and unfilterable by themselves, and there's no way to tell what is in them without checking tags post by post.

Yup, it's confusing the first time you see it but fortunately it's just a temporary display bug, nobody actually sees it but you (refresh the page and your post will display correctly). I haven't figured out what causes it yet as it isn't reproducible offline. :(

I've only seen it on the forums though, so maybe that's a start.

Could it possibly be that it's trying to recognize if the symbols you're using (" or , or [ or ( or ' or literally any symbol) is it trying to find out if those symbols are being used as "formatting" or not?

Cause I've seen it a few times just never asked about it, but historically I've seen it happen only next to symbols like " or ( never just with regular words. Maybe it's confused and thinks you're trying to do comment formatting?

parasprite said:
The issue with TWYS and pools is really more of an issue with pools than TWYS. Pools are untagged and unfilterable by themselves, and there's no way to tell what is in them without checking tags post by post.

Yup, it's confusing the first time you see it but fortunately it's just a temporary display bug, nobody actually sees it but you (refresh the page and your post will display correctly). I haven't figured out what causes it yet as it isn't reproducible offline. :(

I've only seen it on the forums though, so maybe that's a start.

Happens to me somewhat often when I comment anywhere on the site

Cynosure said:
Could it possibly be that it's trying to recognize if the symbols you're using (" or , or [ or ( or ' or literally any symbol) is it trying to find out if those symbols are being used as "formatting" or not?

Cause I've seen it a few times just never asked about it, but historically I've seen it happen only next to symbols like " or ( never just with regular words. Maybe it's confused and thinks you're trying to do comment formatting?

I'm pretty sure it's related to parsing URLs (whether it's a wiki link or otherwise), but why it would affect the normal site and not my dev copy, I'm not sure. Perhaps something Cloudflare does to optimize traffic? Hmm.

Pendraggon said:
Happens to me somewhat often when I comment anywhere on the site

Noted, thanks.

I guess I just go on the forums more often. :x

parasprite said:
I'm pretty sure it's related to parsing URLs (whether it's a wiki link or otherwise), but why it would affect the normal site and not my dev copy, I'm not sure. Perhaps something Cloudflare does to optimize traffic? Hmm.

Noted, thanks.

I guess I just go on the forums more often. :x

For the record, it appears to be after anything that is not alphanumeric. A-Z, 1-0 all allow spaces just fine. A dash will allow a space after it, but not before. Any other symbols, including punctuation or brackets, seem to not allow spaces after when the display error strikes.