Implicating human → humanoid
Link to implication

Reason:

Alright, I already posted this in another thread (with a few minor differences) and this encompasses many things, so bear with me. This primarily involves human, humanoid, animal_ears, centaur/naga/etc. which seems like a lot, but it all falls into the same framework. I believe this may give us a chance to clearly define these while cleanly incorporating them into our current system.

Current Definitions:

• human - Purebred boring human.
• humanoid - non-human...humans. Originally meant to encompass D&D-style humanoids (elf, gnome, orc, ogre, etc.) to distinguish them from other anthro, but it's usage is a bit broader than that now. So far only orc implies humanoid, and it's definition was never really that clear to begin with so nobody has really touched it since then..
• Animal ears - Perpetual limbo. A headache. So far we've established they are 1) not human 2) not anthro 3) probably humanoid 4) furry. Great, but how do we treat them? Well...we leave it at that. Currently they are species-less and rarely come up if we search for the species itself (cat for cat ears).

Proposed definitions:

• Human: Fully human and ambiguously human (human-looking but the elf-ears are hidden inside a helmet, generic human-shaped silhouette, etc.). "The way real intended".
• Humanoid: All human hybrids, period.
• Imply elf/halfling/whatever else -> humanoid
• Imply animal_ears -> humanoid
• Imply centaur -> humanoid
• Imply human -> humanoid (this thread)
• Change human_on_anthro, human_on_feral, etc. to humanoid_on_anthro, humanoid_on_feral, etc.
• Imply dog_ears -> dog, wolf_ears -> wolf, cat_ears -> cat, etc..
• We have a lot of posts that are tagged this way already and they are cleaned up every so often. They are still cat-like so I believe they belong under cats. It is unintuitive to keep them separate and that is why we need to put so much effort into fixing them.

Benefits:

• It follows our current system enough that retagging work is minimized.
• Particularly for humanoid_on_* because we would only add to those rather than removing
• It's simple, straightforward, and probably intuitive.
• We now have a humanoid_on_feral/etc. tag!
• We have a way to distinguish centaurs from humans.
• We now have a way to include animal_ears within some of our framework.

Want humans only? Use human.
Want non-human humanoids only? Use humanoid -human.

Thoughts:

• centaur would be considered non-feral
• centaur on feral would have to be considered bestiality because humanoid_on_feral would.
• This might include naga/etc. I don't actually know enough about them to judge this myself.
• We may want to consider implicating human -> humanoid -> mammal (instead of human -> humanoid, mammal) but I'm not exactly sure yet. Technically a "humanoid" character would at least be part human and thus be part mammal. It seems to make sense in theory. However, I'd like your opinion on this.

parasprite said:

• We may want to consider implicating human -> humanoid -> mammal (instead of human -> humanoid, mammal) but I'm not exactly sure yet. Technically a "humanoid" character would at least be part human and thus be part mammal. It seems to make sense in theory. However, I'd like your opinion on this.

Against. Humanoid constructs such as golems shouldn't be tagged as mammal if it can be avoided. And humanoid aliens rarely fit into normal taxonomy. And then there's the occasional flora_fauna humanoids, which definitely aren't mammals.

As for the human -> humanoid implication... not sure. That would be such a major change that I'll need to chew on it for a few days first. To make sure it doesn't break anything.

I know it's old topic, but I discovered it just now - when trying to figure what implications suggest to make animal_ears have mammal tag.

human -> humanoid sounds interesting, especially since currently there's no good tag for animal_ears sex and this would solve the problem (if there are humanoid) though some people would probably want to keep human_on_* tags separate.

Humanoid: All human hybrids, period.
Imply elf/halfling/whatever else -> humanoid
Imply animal_ears -> humanoid
Imply centaur -> humanoid
Imply human -> humanoid (this thread)

I don't think that this definition is clear. Elf is hybrid with what? Are thing Genjar mentioned humanoid? If not then what?

No matter what the answer is can we implicate animal_ears -> mammal for now? Currently animal_ears have no species tag by default though they probably should be tagged with humanoid. (At least I started tag them with it.) If they're going to be tagged humanoid, and humanoid is going to imply mammal then this implication can be removed.
Also can *_ears tags (except fake_animal_ears ) be changed to species tags?

Granberia said:
I don't think that this definition is clear. Elf is hybrid with what? Are thing Genjar mentioned humanoid? If not then what?

I meant human/x hybrids like centaur. The Tolkien races are kind of a thing of their own.

No matter what the answer is can we implicate animal_ears -> mammal for now? Currently animal_ears have no species tag by default though they probably should be tagged with humanoid. (At least I started tag them with it.) If they're going to be tagged humanoid, and humanoid is going to imply mammal then this implication can be removed.
Also can *_ears tags (except fake_animal_ears ) be changed to species tags?

Moving them over to species is a bit complicated at the moment as large tags don't change well and need to be handled differently (humanoid took . That being said, I agree that they should be species tags.

I wanted to have more time to prepare to propose this, but I think now would be a good time to go ahead and propose the idea that Furrypickle had:

Major changes:

• Alias: cat_ears -> cat_humanoid
• Alias: dog_ears -> dog_humanoid
• Alias: rabbit_ears -> rabbit_humanoid
• and so on...
• Imply all -> humanoid and make them species tags
• Imply cat_humanoid -> cat, dog_humanoid -> dog, etc.

This would make it easier to adopt for creatures that don't necessarily have ears (e.g., dragon_humanoid, snake_humanoid), and allow the implication to humanoid to be put through more cleanly.

Add:

• humanoid_on_anthro
• humanoid_on_feral
• etc.

My own suggestion:

• Alias: catgirl -> cat, dogboy -> dog, etc. - People misuse these all the time and it's better they end up in a species tag since that could potentially be either anthro or humanoid.

Concerns:

• Potentially large set of implications to species. It's probably better that we favor tags like feline_humanoid over snow_leopard_humanoid, but we'll probably have to take it on a case-by-case basis.
• humanoidized (?)
• animal_humanoid sounds odd, but it might be fine. I'm concerned that it would get mixed up with anthro, but the *_ears tags already have that problem to begin with.

I like idea of <species>_humanoid tags, though to be honest every possible name is better then <species>_ears. Though how about making animal_humanoid tag and making implication like this <species>_humanoid -> animal_humanoid -> humanoid.

What about implications to mammal? Animal ears seems to have mostly mammal body though there are some questionable ones (like dragon-kin). What are the rules with tagging mammal tag on mammal/not-mammal hybrids?

Granberia said:
I like idea of <species>_humanoid tags, though to be honest every possible name is better then <species>_ears. Though how about making animal_humanoid tag and making implication like this <species>_humanoid -> animal_humanoid -> humanoid.

I think that sounds like a good solution. I know people will want to search for it as a group anyways and this would be cleaner to implement.

What about implications to mammal? Animal ears seems to have mostly mammal body though there are some questionable ones (like dragon-kin). What are the rules with tagging mammal tag on mammal/not-mammal hybrids?

Kind of loose. humanoid probably shouldn't get it just because of certain non-mammal creatures like aliens, golems, etc., but animal_humanoid -> mammal might work. I think if an implication like this were made I'd wait until after these tags have been moved over; it gives people time to adjust to the change and gives us enough time to figure out the exceptions.

Might work.
Animal_humanoid could get confused with anthro by some taggers, but other than that, I see no problems with implicating it to mammal.

As Granberia pointed out, there's already the dragon-kin tag for 'dragon_humanoid' ^{_{(also mammal enough to implicate)[/sup]}. Though it could be renamed -- and probably should, to keep it uniform with the rest.}

parasprite said:

• Alias: cat_ears -> cat_humanoid
• Alias: dog_ears -> dog_humanoid
• Alias: rabbit_ears -> rabbit_humanoid

Those get mistagged a lot, though. Canine anthros tagged as dog_ears, fake ears tagged as rabbit_ears, etc.

This may be a drastic suggestion, but how about moving those over to the <species>_humanoid tags (along with some of the aliases, such as nekomimi), then invalidating the <species>_ears tags? That seems like less cleanup in the long run.

(Kemonomimi and animal_ears could be aliased to animal_humanoid. Those aren't as problematic as the <species>_ears tags.)

Genjar said:

This may be a drastic suggestion, but how about moving those over to the <species>_humanoid tags (along with some of the aliases, such as nekomimi), then invalidating the <species>_ears tags? That seems like less cleanup in the long run.

(Kemonomimi and animal_ears could be aliased to animal_humanoid. Those aren't as problematic as the <species>_ears tags.)

I could get behind this. While I would agree that they were probably better than the *mimi tags for us, those <species>_ears tags have caused nothing but problems since the begining and I'd love to start clean.

Whew this was a fun couple of weeks. There are a slew of changes (too many to list them all here), but I'm going to summarize the most important points.

Changes:

• Cleaned up the kemonomimi group, moving to fake_ears, anthro, feral, hybrid, etc. when appropriate.
• New tag group: <species>_humanoid (example: cat_humanoid)
• These tags have completely replaced the usage of the kemonomimi/animal_ears/<species>girl ("catgirl") tags. The definitions have been tweaked slightly to be more compatible with our tagging system, but are largely the same. For instance, the animal_ears tag was inherently biased towards being used for species with ears (has anyone seen butterfly_ears? How about plant_ears?). The *_humanoid tags on the other hand are relatively species-neutral and should be able to apply to almost all species tags on here.
• This tag group as well as humanoid are now species tags.
• Kemonomimi/animal_ears is now aliased -> animal_humanoid. Likewise nekomimi/cat_ears/catgirl/catboy/etc. (or other species equivalent tags) are now all aliased -> cat_humanoid (or other species equivalent tags).
• cat_ears, dog_ears, etc. aliases will likely only be temporary. They will eventually be changed over to invalid_tag instead (be sure to update your blacklists :) ).
• animal_humanoid now implies humanoid
• Extended tag set: fake_<species>_ears (examples: fake_rabbit_ears, fake_equine_ears, fake_cat_ears, and so on)
• The most common ones I've found now imply fake_ears.
• Extended tag set: humanoid_on_*
• Kemonomimi tend to get tagged with human_on_* and thus end up getting mistagged as human. This will give us the alternate tags needed to fit the new tags within our current framework.
• New (old) tag: busty_feral
• Feral characters with human-like chest breasts (usually tagged with what or why). This is generally meant to contrast with things like teats.
• Not exactly related to this thread, but I wanted to take this opportunity to mention this tag. It does a good job at filling a particular niche that other tags haven't been able to replicate so far. It was previously invalidated, but that was undone and it now simply implies feral instead.
• A handful of *_outfit, *_suit, and *suit tags were aliased to *_costume.
• A handful of *_costume tags now imply costume
• Implication: human -> humanoid (OP denied) - We can change our mind later, but as it is they don't really fit well in humanoid.

Definitions:

• human - Characters that are entirely human in appearance, such as one you might find on the sidewalk in your average city. Characters with extra/modified ears, arms, feet, etc. should all go under humanoid instead.
• humanoid - A variety of species that closely resembles humans.
• Elves, orcs, ogres, and other similar Tolkien/D&D races which aren't anthro.
• Certain human-like aliens which don't appear animal-like enough to count as anthro, feral, etc.
• animal_humanoid - Characters with minor animal characteristics (ears, tail, nose) that are otherwise entirely human.
• Not to be tagged with anthro or human
• Generally not used with hybrid (e.g., a cat_humanoid wouldn't be hybrid, but a cat+dog_humanoid would be).
• For fake costume ears, see fake_ears
• humanoid_on_anthro, humanoid_on_human, etc. (currently widely undertagged)
• Remember, humans shouldn't be tagged humanoid and vice versa. :)
• humanoidized (suggested tag) - To be used in place of humanized (though the name isn't very good). Alternately we could remove the humanized -> human implication instead since it contributes to a lot of mistagging anyways.
• busty_feral - Feral characters with human-like chest breasts (stuff that might be tagged with what or why).
• This is generally meant to contrast with things like teats.
• fake_ears (e.g., fake_rabbit_ears) - Ears that are worn, usually as part of a costume.
• Not to be tagged with any species tag (e.g., rabbit)
• Given the ambiguity on a lot of these posts we can assume that the ears will belong to the character more often than not. This shouldn't be tagged unless they are obviously fake ears.

Tag tree (simplified):

At this point I think it's better to avoid using tags like pegasus_humanoid, and prefer equine_humanoid, pegasus instead. This is meant to cut down on tag clutter and the work necessary to maintain tagging, implications/aliases, etc. We can approve new ones as needed later on when things have settled down. That being said, here are some examples of the tags

• humanoid
• elf
• orc
• animal_humanoid
• cat_humanoid**
• cow_humanoid*
• dog_humanoid
• dragon_humanoid
• equine_humanoid <- pony_humanoid, horse_humanoid (to simplify)
• insect_humanoid
• mouse_humanoid
• rabbit_humanoid*
• raccoon_humanoid
• sheep_humanoid
• wolf_humanoid
• Many more
• humanoid_on_anthro
• humanoid_on_feral
• humanoid_on_human - Edit: human_on_humanoid
• humanoid_on_taur
• fake_ears
• fake_cat_ears
• fake_fox_ears
• fake_rabbit_ears
• fake_wolf_ears
• And so on
• costume
• cat_costume, etc.

*These should probably be changed to bovine_humanoid, lagomorph_humanoid, etc. instead. They were essentially placeholder tags just to simplify making these changes, but are likely to change at some point in the future.
**Should probably go through feline_humanoid/canine_humanoid instead.

Cleanup:

There was a lot of mistagging that had built up over the years which needed to be cleaned up. I tried to retag them as appropriate, but after ~20000 posts there is bound to be some mistakes made, so the usage isn't 100% consistent. Here are some areas that still need to be worked on:

• Removing anthro and human from animal_humanoid posts
• Finding fake_ears and removing animal_humanoid, humanoid, and other species tags from them
• Adding <species>_humanoid to animal_humanoid posts that don't have one (I attempted to tag these out, but after a couple weeks of going through these the characteristics begin to look vaguely the same)
• Move the wiki pages over to the new tags (pending)

Misc suggestions:

• goo_humanoid
• monster_girl -> monster_humanoid? Not as an actual alias (at least not right now), but manually retagging them for cleanup. Just a thought.
• humanoidized - Mentioned above.