Either way we got a User removing "silencer" and replacing with suppressor which is not good because there are several types of suppessors. Sound and flash, sound has light, medium, and heavy baffling... and sound suppressors are more commonly called silncers by the un-educated.

Silencer is a made-up movie term for sound suppressors that took. Just alias it to sound_suppressor. if suppressor is only used for sound suppressors and not flash suppressors, then alias it as well.

Suppressor is more accurate, silencer is more common.

I love how specifically people tag and discuss firearms here. Whenever I see an image with a girl holding a gun, I can guess the comments are going to be about the weapon and not her.

And I'd rather nerd out about something than give in to ignorance.

Halite said:
Suppressor is more accurate, silencer is more common.

One is right, one (the latter) is wrong. ;)

Tangent said: I love how specifically people tag and discuss firearms here. Whenever I see an image with a girl holding a gun, I can guess the comments are going to be about the weapon and not her.

And I'd rather nerd out about something than give in to ignorance.

Who said I'm a fire arm nerd? This threads about the tag. Not the weapons. You tag wrong and it makes my job harder, so if its more than 5 posts and needs an alias I ask for it. The guys tag edits look like this.

+suppressor -silencer
+suppressor -silencer
+suppressor -silencer
+suppressor -silencer

Esme_Belles said:
Who said I'm a fire arm nerd?

No-one did. I was making an observation based on years of what I've been seeing. I think the fact that tagging is so comprehensive is great.

sound_suppressor -> suppressor
silencer -> suppressor

arguments?

ippiki_ookami said:
sound_suppressor -> suppressor
silencer -> suppressor

arguments?

I'd do the first in reverse, and the second to sound_suppressor.

123easy said:
I'd do the first in reverse, and the second to sound_suppressor.

Depends on if we're grouping other types of suppressors into that or not.

no one calls silencers sound suppressors

ippiki_ookami said:
no one calls silencers sound suppressors

It's the technically accurate term.
So, gunsmiths might, but yeah, average person would call it a silencer.

ippiki_ookami said:
no one calls silencers sound suppressors

Anyone who knows anything about guns would know they're called sound suppressors, actually. http://www.ebay.com/bhp/gun-suppressor is what you get if you try searching for gun silencers. People know they're called silencers in movies, and might understand what you're talking about if you call them that colliquially, but they would know what the actual term is.

The average american idiot though? Ehhh... I'd rather err on the side of accuracy than on the side of idiocy.

On a side note, Silencer is a brand name, they make suppressors. Just a quip of info.

I'm going to go ahead and alias silencer to suppressor and sound_suppressor to suppressor.

I'm also not getting into the difference in terms and the exact definitions. This alias will work for our site, as it's not a gun site and we don't need both terms

Edit- Actually might go the other way around as perhaps we should use the most common term available for a recognizable thing.

"Silencer" is actually a term used by the ATF in their Form 4, in their definition section (Letter "C" is where the term is used.) http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-5320-4.pdf

So, by going along with what is defined on the Form 4, which is a Federal Document, "Silencer" would be the appropriate term as this is what the ATF refers to when NFA tax stamps get involved.

"Silencer" is also a common term used by most of the general population, not what Hiram Maxim had in mind when he invented what we now know as the "Supressor." Realistically speaking, nobody but gun nerds like myself are going to be searching for suppressors. People are going to look for Silencer, so I am all for keeping Silencer to the way it is. Not that it really matters, to be honest.

I think I'm going to alias suppressor and sound suppressor to silencer.

It is the official term for it and realistically speaking if the gun could be silenced 100% using mad science, then the term would be absolutely correct, so I see no need to go against logic and the identified term for it

Rainbow_Dash said:
I think I'm going to alias suppressor and sound suppressor to silencer.

It is the official term for it and realistically speaking if the gun could be silenced 100% using mad science, then the term would be absolutely correct, so I see no need to go against logic and the identified term for it

...No, it's not. The official term for it is sound suppressor. Silencer is the term made up in movies. If sound suppressor technology advanced to where they could muffle the sound completely (which is functionally impossible, given how sound waves propagate and how guns function) then most certainly they would be correctly called silencers then, as they would be silencing the gun, but they aren't, and they aren't correctly called silencers now. It goes against logic to call a suppressor a silencer, not to call it by its proper term.

I'm not a gun nut and I still know these things. Basic information if you just care to look. :/

DasaDevil said:
"Silencer" is actually a term used by the ATF in their Form 4, in their definition section (Letter "C" is where the term is used.) http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-5320-4.pdf

So, by going along with what is defined on the Form 4, which is a Federal Document, "Silencer" would be the appropriate term as this is what the ATF refers to when NFA tax stamps get involved.

"Silencer" is also a common term used by most of the general population, not what Hiram Maxim had in mind when he invented what we now know as the "Supressor." Realistically speaking, nobody but gun nerds like myself are going to be searching for suppressors. People are going to look for Silencer, so I am all for keeping Silencer to the way it is. Not that it really matters, to be honest.

They also use the term muffler (as in, car muffler) there as well, and don't even include the actual name of the device. Considering that the US school structure is worse than Cuba's for teaching just the basics, not even advanced subjects, and also considering that the majority of US citizens are idiots just by volume (As George Carlin used to say, "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that". Brilliant man), we can see that dumbing down terminology so that way even idiots can understand it is what's going on there. Hell, their definition for firearm is broken down into "shotgun with X length barrel or rifle with X length barrel or any other weapon in this code". When you deal with dumb people, you need to make sure they understand by using what they know- Not to say that all people who will use those forms are dumb, but you have to go to the lowest common denominator. Since most of those lowest common denominators only know the term from movies, the term comes into play. This is evident by the *rest of the world* not dumbing down their wording, or recognizing the device as a suppressor primarily with silencer as the known term originating from the US. Dictionaries even list it as a chiefly US term.

Lastly, whether you search for suppressors or silencers, you're going to get the same thing. Having the correct term displayed > minor confusion that might arise. It'd help educate people in some small way, at least.

123easy said:
...No, it's not. The official term for it is sound suppressor. Silencer is the term made up in movies. If sound suppressor technology advanced to where they could muffle the sound completely (which is functionally impossible, given how sound waves propagate and how guns function) then most certainly they would be correctly called silencers then, as they would be silencing the gun, but they aren't, and they aren't correctly called silencers now. It goes against logic to call a suppressor a silencer, not to call it by its proper term.

I'm not a gun nut and I still know these things. Basic information if you just care to look. :/

They also use the term muffler (as in, car muffler) there as well, and don't even include the actual name of the device. Considering that the US school structure is worse than Cuba's for teaching just the basics, not even advanced subjects, and also considering that the majority of US citizens are idiots just by volume (As George Carlin used to say, "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that". Brilliant man), we can see that dumbing down terminology so that way even idiots can understand it is what's going on there. Hell, their definition for firearm is broken down into "shotgun with X length barrel or rifle with X length barrel or any other weapon in this code". When you deal with dumb people, you need to make sure they understand by using what they know- Not to say that all people who will use those forms are dumb, but you have to go to the lowest common denominator. Since most of those lowest common denominators only know the term from movies, the term comes into play. This is evident by the *rest of the world* not dumbing down their wording, or recognizing the device as a suppressor primarily with silencer as the known term originating from the US. Dictionaries even list it as a chiefly US term.

Lastly, whether you search for suppressors or silencers, you're going to get the same thing. Having the correct term displayed > minor confusion that might arise. It'd help educate people in some small way, at least.

These forms involve the transfer of things that can cost thousands of dollars, so it is by no means dumbed down, as the purchaser is likely to have researched the purchase and have some knowledge in it. It is using a term that is still applicable. The effectiveness of the device should not render the term inappropriate. Yes, it is the official term for it according to the department in charge of it, in the country that we are going off of. It is technically a muffler as it does muffle the sound, but it is intended to silence (relatively) the sound of gun fire, of which it does silence the sound of gun fire (relatively) and we will use the term that is the officially defied term and the most common term.

I cant help myself. I must respond....

You may be able to muffle the blast from the gun but you cannot muffle the crack of the ammunition as it leaves the barrle.
The proper term is, sound suppressor. As the other term is flash suppressor. Silncers and the tweet tweet noise they make in films and Tv are science fiction. All suppressed weapons still make some degree of noise, thus not being "silanced" but rather suppressed.

123easy said:
It'd help educate people in some small way, at least.

e621 is not really here to educate people, however. If they want to remain ignorant it is their problem, not ours to make it an inconvenience to look for something most users arnt going to look for anyways.

Esme_Belles said:
...

(You muffle the supersonic crack by using subsonic ammunition. This is why .45ACP is popular as hell to suppress because it is subsonic by nature)

Another point I want to bring up is tag what you see. Most, if not everything on e6 is fictional, so for all we know the silencer could be silencing the weapon 100%, or not at all, so the actual effectiveness of the device should not dictate it's name, rather it's purpose and BATF term should, which is silencer, and it is also the most commonly used term out there, so unless I get a better argument than the term used because of the effectiveness, it's probably going to be aliased to silencer as the more common term

DasaDevil said:
e621 is not really here to educate people, however. If they want to remain ignorant it is their problem, not ours to make it an inconvenience to look for something most users arnt going to look for anyways.

(You muffle the supersonic crack by using subsonic ammunition. This is why .45ACP is popular as hell to suppress because it is subsonic by nature)

.22 is probably the best for silencing/suppressing.
Already quieter than most other bullets, and low recoil makes a fast, accurate, and quiet weapon.

Edit: Oh, and it does come in sub-sonic flavor.

Rainbow_Dash said:
These forms involve the transfer of things that can cost thousands of dollars, so it is by no means dumbed down, as the purchaser is likely to have researched the purchase and have some knowledge in it. It is using a term that is still applicable. The effectiveness of the device should not render the term inappropriate. Yes, it is the official term for it according to the department in charge of it, in the country that we are going off of. It is technically a muffler as it does muffle the sound, but it is intended to silence (relatively) the sound of gun fire, of which it does silence the sound of gun fire (relatively) and we will use the term that is the officially defied term and the most common term.

Firstly, regarding the forms, yes, they deal with items that can cost thousands of dollars, so it's high in dollar value- much like Bush was responsible for trillions of dollars of debt being accrued. High cost doesn't mean that only intelligent people are involved.

Secondly, US gov't. isn't the be all end all. Just because they term something some way doesn't mean that it's automatically right or correctly stated.

Thirdly, what is the term for relatively reducing the volume of something? Suppressing the sound. Like a sound suppressor. Silencing a weapon makes it entirely inaudible. If there is any sort of sound remaining, then it is not silenced, merely muffled or suppressed. Only if it is inaudible entirely does anything qualify as actually being silenced.

Rainbow_Dash said:
Another point I want to bring up is tag what you see. Most, if not everything on e6 is fictional, so for all we know the silencer could be silencing the weapon 100%, or not at all, so the actual effectiveness of the device should not dictate it's name, rather it's purpose and BATF term should, which is silencer, and it is also the most commonly used term out there, so unless I get a better argument than the term used because of the effectiveness, it's probably going to be aliased to silencer as the more common term

Remove the more common and most commonly used term sentences from your reply, as well as that its purpose, and fine. The purpose of the device is to suppress or muffle the sound of the escaping gasses through a variety of methods, be they baffling or extended cycling or similar function, not to silence them completely. It most certainly is not the most or even more common term; it is simply the lowest common denominator term.

As for your remark about the suppressor actually silencing a weapon (writing it as 'silencing the weapon 100%' just makes my head hurt, since if something isn't silenced 100% it's not silenced, since silence is the complete absence of sound), while it is true that they may be futuristic and somehow able to actually silence the weapon, we cannot tell that from the image. What we do have are sound suppressors that suppress the sound, not silence weapons. Any device that looks like a sound suppressor should be treated as a sound suppressor, not as a futuristic device that provides total silence to the gunshot.

DasaDevil said:
e621 is not really here to educate people, however. If they want to remain ignorant it is their problem, not ours to make it an inconvenience to look for something most users aren't going to look for anyways.

(You muffle the supersonic crack by using subsonic ammunition. This is why .45ACP is popular as hell to suppress because it is subsonic by nature)

True enough that we aren't here to educate people- It was a side-benefit I mentioned, though, not a primary one. People being ignorant of it shouldn't equal us using an incorrect term for it, either way. After all, if they search silencer, if it's aliased to sound_suppressor, they're still going to get the images they're looking for.

In regards to the second point, also the .22; though it lacks stopping power it's very easily concealable as well, and cheap to get your hands on.

It's getting aliased to silencer. It is the most common term, and the most widely used term in official capacity. The actual effectiveness of it's capacity to silence something should not be a determining factor in the term to use as it -could- be completely silent for all we know, as these are all fictional guns anyway (for the most part) and pending distance it could render the gunfire inaudible. That part doesn't even matter though; it's what's the most common term and what people are most likely to search for. Once aliased it won't particularly matter which they type in but it will matter when they use the tag in other places such as the wiki and alias/implication searches down the road

Rainbow_Dash said:
It's getting aliased to silencer. It is the most common term, and the most widely used term in official capacity. The actual effectiveness of it's capacity to silence something should not be a determining factor in the term to use as it -could- be completely silent for all we know, as these are all fictional guns anyway (for the most part) and pending distance it could render the gunfire inaudible. That part doesn't even matter though; it's what's the most common term and what people are most likely to search for. Once aliased it won't particularly matter which they type in but it will matter when they use the tag in other places such as the wiki and alias/implication searches down the road

My fictional gun goes pew pew pew.

Halite said:
My fictional gun goes pew pew pew.

My argument is now invalid