I recently came across the implied_rape tag. It has no wiki description. I know implied_* tags are controversial since they often rely on subjective inferences. What is the community opinion on this one? Should it be kept or removed?
Topic: Do we need implied_rape?
Posted under Tag/Wiki Projects and Questions
IMO, it should be removed. Implied tags still require something visual to imply the thing is happening, which in the case of rape would be something visible to indicate someone may not consent, where we already have questionable_consent or rape for that, no need for an implied_rape tag. And if there's nothing visible to question someone's consent, then there's nothing visible to imply it. Tags like this are often a result of someone wanting a lore tag for the thing, for something they "know" is happening but lacks any visual cues for it.
Consider if the posts could be moved to existing tags, such as imminent_rape, rape, or after_rape, then see if the remaining posts need tagging.
thegreatwolfgang said:
Consider if the posts could be moved to existing tags, such as imminent_rape, rape, or after_rape, then see if the remaining posts need tagging.
I found this one:
after_rape might be appropriate, but the image only shows the rapist, not the victim.
This one, I think, is a valid use of implied_rape. There's no on-screen sex, it's purely conveyed through dialogue. Neither imminent_rape nor after_rape would make sense here, I think.
post #5888802 post #5301330 post #4927698 post #4905665 post #4782628 post #4334538 post #4154700 post #3994482 post #3986650 post #3754978 post #3689075 post #3684569 post #3671574 post #3560565 post #2916994 post #2586239
These ones depict what appears to be offscreen rape, but we don't have a tag for that (only offscreen_sex).
And this one explicitly says the character is being raped, but the only indication it's happening is through dialogue. I've created a rape_mention tag for these scenarios.
I'm... not entirely sure how this one should be tagged. Do we have tags for, like, false consent?
This one is probably covered by imminent_rape, but the rest of the page makes me wonder if we should have a tag for rape recovery or some such. It'd probably be too incompatible with TWYS, but it is a valid topic for stories here.
This depicts what appears to be a broken_rape_victim who is currently consenting (as indicated by heart_eyes). It could maybe be covered by after_rape, but I'm not sure.
This depicts what are heavily implied to be sex_slaves, but who are not in imminent danger of being raped, so imminent_rape and after_rape aren't applicable.
I can't make out what's going on in this post.
This is, in fact, implied rape (or at least unconscious_sex), but I think the only way you could understand the implication is if you're familiar with the source material.
Updated
Alright, I've reviewed everything except what's on my blacklist. (Someone with a stronger stomach will have to deal with those.) I've cut it down to 134 uses, and recorded the edge cases in the previous post.
Of the remainder, the vast majority are offscreen rape. The question is if we should make a tag for that or not. I would argue we should; if we already have after_rape and imminent_rape, I don't see why we can't have offscreen_rape.
beholding said:
Of the remainder, the vast majority are offscreen rape. The question is if we should make a tag for that or not. I would argue we should; if we already have after_rape and imminent_rape, I don't see why we can't have offscreen_rape.
They still require something visible indicating the thing. After_rape shows something from the aftermath of a character that was raped, imminent_rape shows something indicating a character is about to be raped. offscreen_rape would need to show something of a character being raped offscreen (not in-between a before_and_after or "between panels", but a present action).
beholding said:
it's purely conveyed through dialogue
Is not something I'm a fan of tagging based on since it's open wide to interpretation, and depends on the dialog being true.
post #52219
In particular, would at best be implied_after_sleep_sex. The comments show pretty well that it's rather confusing what it's trying to say, with many people having to be told what it meant (and even then, my interpretation is somewhat different, looking at it as a stand-alone single-page comic and not knowing the background lore of the setting). And similar to sleep_sex, the question comes up of assuming non-consent when we don't see anything about consent being given or refused or questioned, let alone refused as is needed for rape tags.
beholding said:
post #5862867I'm... not entirely sure how this one should be tagged. Do we have tags for, like, false consent?
Perhaps explicitly_stated_consent + forced? Consent is being explicitly stated, but it's also visibly clear they're being forced to do it.
beholding said:
Alright, I've reviewed everything except what's on my blacklist. (Someone with a stronger stomach will have to deal with those.) I've cut it down to 134 uses, and recorded the edge cases in the previous post.Of the remainder, the vast majority are offscreen rape. The question is if we should make a tag for that or not. I would argue we should; if we already have after_rape and imminent_rape, I don't see why we can't have offscreen_rape.
Consider breaking those down even more to existing tags that we have, such as offscreen_sex/obscured_sex + forced, questionable_consent, bad_end, etc.
If sex is not present (or not visually apparent), I highly recommend simply using forced instead since that is the go-to tag for all things non-consensual.
(Of course, you don't have to do all of this if you are recommending that we have an offscreen_rape tag, which would need to be voted on.)
I am proposing the creation of an offscreen_rape tag, yes. I think it's important to remember that rape is a highly contentious topic that a lot of people want to blacklist. There are people who want to avoid even the mention or implication of rape, and that needs to be accommodated. Forcing those people to blacklist unintuitive tag combinations isn't very accommodating.
I feel like if we have offscreen_sex, then offscreen_rape should be fair game. Like, is there a reason why it's okay to have after_sex, imminent_sex, and offscreen_sex, but rape has to be limited to after_rape and imminent_rape?
watsit said:
post #52219
In particular, would at best be implied_after_sleep_sex. The comments show pretty well that it's rather confusing what it's trying to say, with many people having to be told what it meant (and even then, my interpretation is somewhat different, looking at it as a stand-alone single-page comic and not knowing the background lore of the setting). And similar to sleep_sex, the question comes up of assuming non-consent when we don't see anything about consent being given or refused or questioned, let alone refused as is needed for rape tags.
Yeah, I agree. I'm just not sure what to tag it exactly. implied_sex is rightfully invalid, but I don't now how else to describe it.
watsit said:
Perhaps explicitly_stated_consent + forced? Consent is being explicitly stated, but it's also visibly clear they're being forced to do it.
Perhaps forced_consent? I don't know if it's common enough to warrant its own tag, though. There's also the fact that it's a meta joke about censorship policies, which are always going to screw with categorization logic for obvious reasons. (Tangentially, do we have a tag for what TV Tropes calls Leaning on the Fourth Wall? I've only found breaking_the_fourth_wall.)
beholding said:
Yeah, I agree. I'm just not sure what to tag it exactly. implied_sex is rightfully invalid, but I don't now how else to describe it.
I think after_sex (and after_oral, after_vaginal) would be perfectly valid for that example, since cum in a female character's mouth and uterus is a clear depiction of the aftermath of (oral, vaginal) sex.
beholding said:
There's also the fact that it's a meta joke about censorship policies, which are always going to screw with categorization logic for obvious reasons. (Tangentially, do we have a tag for what TV Tropes calls Leaning on the Fourth Wall? I've only found breaking_the_fourth_wall.)
I think post #5862867 is a bit too interpretive to tag as relating to the fourth wall. breaking_the_fourth_wall is fine when there's a clear reference to the reader or "outside world", but if it's only alluding to some meta joke, that feels too subjective to tag to me. The post description and artist intent don't factor into TWYS, and just looking at the image, there's no indication it's some reference to the real world (I didn't even notice the description at first).
watsit said:
I think after_sex (and after_oral, after_vaginal) would be perfectly valid for that example, since cum in a female character's mouth and uterus is a clear depiction of the aftermath of (oral, vaginal) sex.I think post #5862867 is a bit too interpretive to tag as relating to the fourth wall. breaking_the_fourth_wall is fine when there's a clear reference to the reader or "outside world", but if it's only alluding to some meta joke, that feels too subjective to tag to me. The post description and artist intent don't factor into TWYS, and just looking at the image, there's no indication it's some reference to the real world (I didn't even notice the description at first).
Alright, done. Any suggestions for post #5945413, post #5916704, and post #2376179?
beholding said:
Alright, done. Any suggestions for post #5945413, post #5916704, and post #2376179?
For post #5945413 and post #5916704, maybe taunting. The latter perhaps also degradation, coercion, and/or abuse. For post #2376179 I'd tag submissive_female, bound, and forced (or at least questionable_consent).
beholding said:
Alright, done. Any suggestions for post #5945413, post #5916704, and post #2376179?
None of these scream rape (as a result of forced sex) to me.
- post #5945413 - possibly intimidation or taunting.
- post #5916704 - bad_end.
- post #2376179 - forced and possibly exploitation.
watsit said:
For post #5945413 and post #5916704, maybe taunting. The latter perhaps also degradation, coercion, and/or abuse. For post #2376179 I'd tag submissive_female, bound, and forced (or at least questionable_consent).
Alright, done. There's apparently a sexual_abuse tag, so I added that to post #5916704.
The only question left is if we should make an offscreen_rape tag. After that, we can move to invalidate implied_rape.
In the process of cleaning out other implied_* tags, I came across post #1463673. It features dialogue discussing what is implied but not outright stated to be a sex slavery operation. I don't know if rape_mention is valid here, since the rape is implied and not explicitly stated. Thoughts?