Topic: Tag implication: fairy -> european_mythology

The tag implication #68896 fairy -> european_mythology is pending approval.

Reason: Fairies are European mythological creatures.

I think the concept of a fairy is generic enough to not necessarily be identifiable as the mythological entity from european folklore, as just a small human(oid) with insect wings. I have similar issues with dragon and werewolf implicating mythology tags, as their use these days (especially in the furry fandom) is very different from older mythological depictions, that it would be useful to distinguish depictions closer to their mythological roots versus generic modern ideas.

watsit said:
I think the concept of a fairy is generic enough to not necessarily be identifiable as the mythological entity from european folklore, as just a small human(oid) with insect wings. I have similar issues with dragon and werewolf implicating mythology tags, as their use these days (especially in the furry fandom) is very different from older mythological depictions, that it would be useful to distinguish depictions closer to their mythological roots versus generic modern ideas.

If we're going down that route it seems rather pointless to have mythology tags at all, given that 99% of art on this site is necessarily going to be "modern ideas" rather than the mythological roots. I don't see the logic in arguing that because these ideas have evolved over time (as all folklore does) they shouldn't be categorized as folklore.

From a usability standpoint, this would also take away the ability to search for species based on specific types of mythology. I don't do that myself, but I'm sure that's useful to someone.

beholding said:
If we're going down that route it seems rather pointless to have mythology tags at all, given that 99% of art on this site is necessarily going to be "modern ideas" rather than the mythological roots. I don't see the logic in arguing that because these ideas have evolved over time (as all folklore does) they shouldn't be categorized as folklore.

Not just that they've evolved over time, but they often have little in common with the mythological incarnation. What makes mythology tags pointless is when they apply to everything and anything with any hint of a tie to some myth. I'd like to see the mythology tags used for depictions that are more referential to actual mythological depictions, rather than being flooded with My Little Pony, Pokemon, and generic fursona #69420. As it is, it's just a hair away from having anthro imply mythology because the idea of human/animal hybrids and anthropomorphising animals have come from myths.

watsit said:
Not just that they've evolved over time, but they often have little in common with the mythological incarnation. What makes mythology tags pointless is when they apply to everything and anything with any hint of a tie to some myth. I'd like to see the mythology tags used for depictions that are more referential to actual mythological depictions, rather than being flooded with My Little Pony, Pokemon, and generic fursona #69420. As it is, it's just a hair away from having anthro imply mythology because the idea of human/animal hybrids and anthropomorphising animals have come from myths.

The mythological incarnations themselves are incredibly varied, though, and in most cases we don't even know what the original version was. The idea of what a "fairy" is is different all throughout Europe. Moreover, it's not like there's a clear line between "modern" and "historical" with folklore, since it naturally evolves over time. The "modern" idea of fairies as tiny winged humanoids dates back centuries, even though that was already a major divergence from fairies as depicted in the Middle Ages and earlier. Same deal with Western dragons -- the modern incarnation is based on a particular version from Germanic and Norse folklore, but there were wildly different ideas of what constituted a "dragon" throughout the Middle Ages. The minotaur was a single, specific character from Greek mythology, and the idea of it being a species is a modern invention -- should we remove the tag's implication to Greek mythology then? Where exactly do you draw the line?

beholding said:
If we're going down that route it seems rather pointless to have mythology tags at all

Frankly it kinda is. Like how many people are actually going to type in "western_mythology" when they're searching for something? It honestly feels like the product of people who like obsessively categorizing things for its own sake.

errorist said:
Frankly it kinda is. Like how many people are actually going to type in "western_mythology" when they're searching for something? It honestly feels like the product of people who like obsessively categorizing things for its own sake.

Well, who created the categories originally? Are they still active here? I'd like to hear their reasoning before we remove them entirely.

beholding said:
The mythological incarnations themselves are incredibly varied, though, and in most cases we don't even know what the original version was. The idea of what a "fairy" is is different all throughout Europe.

At least I think it should align to some depiction, rather than some generic idea. Surely we can separate old mythological styles of, for example, gryphons, from any feline/bird hybrid. Or older depictions of unicorns, described as

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicorn
[...] a white horse- or goat-like animal with a long straight horn with spiraling grooves, cloven hooves, and sometimes a goat's beard. [...] an extremely wild woodland creature, a symbol of purity and grace, which could be captured only by a virgin.

from generic equines that may have some pointy thing on its head and no other attributes associated with the creature. If I want to search for mythological unicorns, I'd expect at the least to get things like this:
post #5756054
A long grooved spiraling horn, cloven hooves, goat-like tufts, nature, purity... there's some attempt there to relate to those older descriptions. As opposed to
post #5780079

beholding said:
Moreover, it's not like there's a clear line between "modern" and "historical" with folklore, since it naturally evolves over time.

Sure, the line is blurry. But I'd look at it like, the mythology tags should be useful to people looking for posts that relate to stories that have carried through generations, to those old myths rather than modern ideas that have little to do with them besides depicting a species that vaguely kind of maybe resembles if you squint. I'd rather mythology be undertagged so someone searching it can at least more reliably see posts that relate to what they're looking for (even if a lot of posts are missing), rather than overtagged so what they want is buried under hundreds of posts of generic pokemon/mlp/etc art or people's fursonas.
post #5738622 vs post #3828754

beholding said:
The tag implication #68896 fairy -> european_mythology is pending approval.

Reason: Fairies are European mythological creatures.

Fairies aren't just European, they're found all over the world. Personally, I'd leave the tag alone...there's enough of them running around in various media that there really needs to be a separate tag for it.

indigohowl said:
Fairies aren't just European, they're found all over the world.

They are? Everything I've read traces them to Europe.