Topic: Forced implications BUR

The bulk update request #10895 is pending approval.

Reason: Creating implications for various forced tags that don't have them. I also have some related BURs in the following posts.

I feel like the "reverse forced" tags should also implicate forced_to_penetrate, but that tag has a very specific definition that doesn't always apply to those circumstances. forced_ejaculation should also logically implicate forced_orgasm, but that tag has similar problems.

See also topic #46860 for more BUR suggestions around forced and rape tags.

The bulk update request #10896 is pending approval.

create implication reverse_forced_anal (66) -> rape (55523)
create implication reverse_forced_oral (1554) -> rape (55523)
create implication forced_to_penetrate (237) -> rape (55523)

Reason: Given that "forced sex" is aliased to rape, I think that forced sex acts should implicate rape (which implicates forced transitively).

Note: Because this BUR involves reverse_forced tags, action should not be taken until bulk update request #11218 resolves.

EDIT: Removing forced_penetration from the BUR since it can include forced_autofellatio, which is not always rape.

The bulk update request #10897 is pending approval.

remove alias forced_to_ride (0) -> forced_to_top (102)
mass update forced_to_top -> forced_to_bottom

Reason: I'm not clear why being forced to be penetrated is called "forced to top"? Isn't a "top" the penetrating partner?

alias forced_to_ride -> forced_to_bottom

beholding said:
Reason: I'm not clear why being forced to be penetrated is called "forced to top"? Isn't a "top" the penetrating partner?

I'm not even sure what the wiki is trying to say:

Someone is in a position where they would normally control how much they are penetrated, but instead they're being forced to move to be penetrated against their will. A female lying on her back doesn't count; the penetrated body part must be moving against its owners' will.

Sounds a bit TWYK-y, what a character "would normally" do can't really be conveyed visually. Is there a big difference between this and forced_penetration?

beholding said:
The bulk update request #10896 is pending approval.

create implication reverse_forced_anal (66) -> rape (55523)
create implication reverse_forced_oral (1554) -> rape (55523)
create implication forced_to_penetrate (237) -> rape (55523)

Reason: Given that "forced sex" is aliased to rape, I think that forced sex acts should implicate rape (which implicates forced transitively).

The only reason I would say no to this batch in particular is that forced_oral has a LOT of posts that aren't conventional rape, they're just really dominant/caught off guard/pushed into the act deeper than they were prepared to go. A good example is throat_swabbing but when they cum, they go all the way in and the recipient is struggling for breath until they pull out. Stuff like that

watsit said:
I'm not even sure what the wiki is trying to say:
Sounds a bit TWYK-y, what a character "would normally" do can't really be conveyed visually. Is there a big difference between this and forced_penetration?

No idea on that wiki's moonspeak, but forced_penetration doesn't denote which person is being forced

nin10dope said:
The only reason I would say no to this batch in particular is that forced_oral has a LOT of posts that aren't conventional rape, they're just really dominant/caught off guard/pushed into the act deeper than they were prepared to go. A good example is throat_swabbing but when they cum, they go all the way in and the recipient is struggling for breath until they pull out. Stuff like that

I'd say that still counts. A partner performing an unwanted sex act during otherwise consensual sex is still rape.

The bulk update request #10910 is pending approval.

remove alias forced_to_ride (0) -> forced_to_top (102)
create alias forced_to_top (102) -> forced_penetration (612) # has blocking transitive relationships, cannot be applied through bur

Reason: Alternative to bulk update request #10897 for those who prefer forced_to_top be retired.

beholding said:
I'd say that still counts. A partner performing an unwanted sex act during otherwise consensual sex is still rape.

Being surprised with an automatic response to breath isn't necessarily unwanted. No more than any other time sex happens with a surprised and/or pained expression anyway, which doesn't automatically count as rape. Though I wouldn't necessarily say that's forced_oral either, as the oral itself wasn't forced, they just went deeper than expected. forced_* tags should only apply when the act is apparently unwanted, not simply using muscular force to accomplish something (e.g. a fully engorged knot being shoved into someone's anus isn't automatically forced_anal/forced, despite the muscular force needed to do it, because it's not necessarily unwanted).

beholding said:
mass update forced_to_top -> forced_to_bottom

Reason: I'm not clear why being forced to be penetrated is called "forced to top"? Isn't a "top" the penetrating partner?

I think this is a good reason to avoid using "top" and "bottom" in the context of penetration, since they can be confused for physical positioning rather than penetration (forced_to_ride, which is aliased to forced_to_top, would mean a character is forced to ride another, while "riding" in the sex position sense means the character is penetrated while on top). forced_to_penetrate is more clearly indicating which way the penetration is going instead of forced_to_top, and maybe something like penetrated_by_force instead of forced_to_bottom.

beholding said:
I'd say that still counts. A partner performing an unwanted sex act during otherwise consensual sex is still rape.

I still have to say a rather hard No to it, because the search of forced_oral and -rape gives 187 pages (50 posts per page)
And also another big factor in the tag's use is literally anytime someone who isn't the person performing oral pushes/pulls said person on the head
So there's thousands of posts that would be erroneously be given a contentious tag. (I think rape is still in that category)

nin10dope said:
I still have to say a rather hard No to it, because the search of forced_oral and -rape gives 187 pages (50 posts per page)
And also another big factor in the tag's use is literally anytime someone who isn't the person performing oral pushes/pulls said person on the head
So there's thousands of posts that would be erroneously be given a contentious tag. (I think rape is still in that category)

Eh, I think I agree with Watsit on this: Those posts shouldn't have been tagged "forced" in the first place. rape is already a bit subjective, since it's often tagged purely based on characters' visual expressions.

beholding said:
Eh, I think I agree with Watsit on this: Those posts shouldn't have been tagged "forced" in the first place. rape is already a bit subjective, since it's often tagged purely based on characters' visual expressions.

That's a fair argument about the existence of forced_oral, but its use is extremely vast. It would tag a massive amount of effort to remove the tag from posts that aren't rape, that's what I was warning about.

The bulk update request #11189 is pending approval.

remove implication oral_rape (474) -> rape (55523)
create alias oral_rape (474) -> forced_oral (12754) # has blocking transitive relationships, cannot be applied through BUR
create alias anal_rape (79) -> forced_anal (1890)

Reason: I don't see how these two things are different. The wiki states that oral_rape can be used as a blanket tag for both forced_oral and reverse_forced_oral, but that seems unnecessary.

beholding said:
The bulk update request #11189 is pending approval.

remove implication oral_rape (474) -> rape (55523)
create alias oral_rape (474) -> forced_oral (12754) # has blocking transitive relationships, cannot be applied through BUR
create alias anal_rape (79) -> forced_anal (1890)

Reason: I don't see how these two things are different. The wiki states that oral_rape can be used as a blanket tag for both forced_oral and reverse_forced_oral, but that seems unnecessary.

I think oral_rape and anal_rape should both be aliased to rape, since those tags are literally just combinations of the two individual tags in them

The bulk update request #11195 is pending approval.

create implication forced_rimming (466) -> forced_oral (12754)
create implication reverse_forced_rimming (35) -> reverse_forced_oral (1554)

Reason: The tag trees listed on the wiki place these as subtags of forced_oral, so this seems logical.

Note: Because this BUR involves reverse_forced tags, action should not be taken until bulk update request #11218 resolves.

beholding said:
The bulk update request #11195 is pending approval.

create implication forced_rimming (466) -> forced_oral (12754)
create implication reverse_forced_rimming (35) -> reverse_forced_oral (1554)

Reason: The tag trees listed on the wiki place these as subtags of forced_oral, so this seems logical.

The oral tags do also include the anus in their wikis so yeah, this one seems straight forward

The bulk update request #11224 is active.

create alias forced_gangbang (3) -> gang_rape (973)

Reason: Pretty sure these are the same thing.

EDIT: The bulk update request #11224 (forum #450873) has been approved by @spe.

The bulk update request #11225 is pending approval.

create alias forced_prostate_orgasm (112) -> forced_orgasm (4624)

Reason: This is overly specific.

The bulk update request #11224 (forum #450873) has been approved by @spe.

The bulk update request #11280 is pending approval.

create implication forced_genital_torture (0) -> forced (110603)
create implication forced_genital_torture (0) -> genital_torture (8562)
create alias forced_cbt (185) -> forced_genital_torture (0)
create alias forced_clit_torture (38) -> forced_genital_torture (0)
create alias forced_pussy_torture (143) -> forced_genital_torture (0)

Reason: Do we really need separate tags for each of these? Combo searches should be sufficient for the specific subcategories.

The bulk update request #11281 is pending approval.

create alias forced_deepthroat (138) -> forced_fellatio (550)

Reason: I think this is overly specific. A combo search of forced_fellatio deepthroat should produce the same result.

The bulk update request #11282 is pending approval.

create alias forced_being_watched (116) -> forced_to_be_watched (0)
create implication forced_to_be_watched (0) -> forced (110603)
create implication forced_to_be_watched (0) -> being_watched (20899)

Reason: This tag sounds weirdly phrased to me. I don't know if this is the best rename, but I think it makes the meaning clearer.

The bulk update request #11283 is pending approval.

Reason: I've updated the original BUR with forced_69, forced_breastfeeding, forced_cannibalism, and forced_cloacal. This has caused it to exceed 25 entries, so I'm starting a second one. I have neglected forced_* tags with less than 5 entries at time of posting, as well as a few others:

• I chose not to make forced_castration imply castration because it's sometimes tagged on imminent_castration. Whether or not that's a valid use is another debate.
• I'm passing on forced_amputation for now, because surely almost all cases of amputation are against the amputee's will? I'm sure there are counterexamples, but I'm not sure if it's a meaningful tag.
• forced_cum_expulsion is deferred to topic #57224.
• forced_cum_on_face is skipped because it's very specific and I'm not sure if it should be lumped with a more general tag, or switched over to the "unwanted" family of tags.
• forced_double_penetration is skipped because I'm not sure if it's overly specific or not.
• forced_drinking is most often used to mean drinking alcohol, but it's also used for drinking any substance. I think we need to disentangle this, but that's a separate debate.
• forced_feeding_cum and forced_feeding_urine will need to wait until this is resolved.
• forced_erection is skipped because it has too much overlap with forced_arousal and unwanted_erection, which warrants separate discussion.
• I chose not to make forced_frottage imply rape because it's sometimes used in forced_partner scenarios.

The bulk update request #11285 is pending approval.

Reason: Part 3.

• forced_insertion is skipped because the insertion vs. penetration debate is still ongoing.
• Renaming forced_kneeling because "forced to kneel" sounds clearer to me.
• forced_milking is skipped because it encompasses several "milking" scenarios I'm not sure should be lumped.
• forced_necrophilia is skipped because it's a squick for me and I can't understand the details of how it's used from a glance.
• forced_pleasure is skipped because there's still no clear answer on what it even is.
• forced_pose is skipped because I can't clearly tell what it's supposed to be depicting.
• forced_public_use is aliased to forced because the tag is barely used and better served by a combo search.
• forced_smoking is skipped because the debate around how forced substance use should be tagged is still ongoing.

The bulk update request #11286 is pending approval.

create alias forced_sounding (67) -> forced_urethral (0)
create implication forced_urethral (0) -> forced_penetration (612)
create implication forced_urethral (0) -> urethral (14573)
create implication forced_to_cum_inside (138) -> forced (110603)
create alias forced_to_masturbate (6) -> forced_masturbation (281)
create alias forced_to_pee (5) -> forced_peeing (14)
create alias forced_urination (5) -> forced_peeing (14)
create implication forced_to_pull (27) -> forced_labor (74)

Reason: Part 4.

• forced_submission is skipped because most of it appears to be either TWYK or forced_bondage.
• forced_suiting is skipped because it seems to encompass a lot of different scenarios, so I think it should be disambiguated instead.
• forced_tailplay is skipped for the same reason.
• forced_to_expose_self is skipped because it already has a BUR.
• forced_to_inseminate is skipped because I'm not sure if it's better aliased to forced_to_breed or forced_to_cum_inside.
• forced_triple_penetration is skipped for the same reasons as forced_double_penetration.

The bulk update request #11287 is pending approval.

create alias forced_double_penetration (108) -> forced_penetration (612)
create alias forced_triple_penetration (23) -> forced_penetration (612)

Reason: I think these are overly specific and better served by combo searches. Let's put it to a vote.