Pictures must be tagged for easier access, yes. And when a picture has a questionable content on it that's not marked by the artist/publisher and can't be defied with ease applying TWYS makes sense because it's better to add some tags, even if they're incorrect, than leaving no tags at all.

But TWYS is absolutely wrong approach when the picture content clearly stated by the artist/publisher. Why do you value your own opinion over the opinion of the person who created/commissioned the art? You have no ownership of it, you have no right to decide what gender and species the character is if it's clearly stated by the artist/commissioner. And continuing to insist on applying TWYS rule even after the artist/publisher stated it's wrong is just the rudest and most disrespectful action one could make. Because it's a direct neglect of the owner's rights. You don't own the character, you don't own the picture, and you have no rights to decide what tags should be if the rightful owner of the character/picture clearly stated their opinion on this matter.

Can you imagine approaching J. Rowling and telling her "I do not believe Harry Potter is a human. He's a fish because I saw him having gills and swimming in water. And your words about him being a human is a lie."
Doesn't it sound silly? But this is exactly what you do by sticking to the TWYS rule.

Again, I'm not telling TWYS is absolutely wrong. It has its positive sides, it's needed in many cases. But you should not value it over clear statements of the artists/publishers, over their rights of ownership and over the common sense.

Man I get it, but the system works whether you like it or not.

I do not draw cub art, will never. I’ve gotten questions from people because my sona is tagged as young/cub often on here because she’s small and flat chested. Sure I might dislike it a little, but I understand it’s just how things work here.

Now they’ve added the lore tags there’s some leeway for gender tags so I’m not sure what you’re flipping out over.

We have created the "lore" category of tags specifically in order to take the statements of the artists/publishers into account.

Here

gattonero2001 said:
We have created the "lore" category of tags specifically in order to take the statements of the artists/publishers into account.

Here

Exactly, I love y’all for that.

flavia_grandville said:
can you imagine approaching J. Rowling and telling her "I do not believe Harry Potter is a human. He's a fish because I saw him having gills and swimming in water. And your words about him being a human is a lie."
Doesn't it sound silly? But this is exactly what you do by sticking to the TWYS rule.

if Harry was described with every single feature of a fish he's, he's a fish, not a human. if Harry was described with many fish features and also distinctly human features he's a fish humanoid, not a human.

if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck; shoot it.

flavia_grandville said:

But TWYS is absolutely wrong approach when the picture content clearly stated by the artist/publisher. Why do you value your own opinion over the opinion of the person who created/commissioned the art? You have no ownership of it, you have no right to decide what gender and species the character is if it's clearly stated by the artist/commissioner. And continuing to insist on applying TWYS rule even after the artist/publisher stated it's wrong is just the rudest and most disrespectful action one could make. Because it's a direct neglect of the owner's rights. You don't own the character, you don't own the picture, and you have no rights to decide what tags should be if the rightful owner of the character/picture clearly stated their opinion on this matter.

As stated above, we have lore tags which artists have carte blanche to add to their posts. But for tags in general (which aren't the weird edge cases) they have to abide by TWYS. The tagging system is so that the users can view or filter art they want/do not want to see. For an extreme example, let's say the artists under all of the posts of baby rating:e state that the characters are actually 18+, so young (and its subtags) doesn't apply to the characters depicted, and so they should have the ability to remove those tags from their posts.

It would be pretty disrespectful to the users of the site for e6 to allow that, wouldn't it? Since the users are now seeing content they had wanted blacklisted.

Lore tags are purely decorative and generally pointless. They do not prevent other tags to be used incorrectly. That's something I've been told twice here already. It's like saying "fine, whatever, he's a boy, but I'm going to publicly announce he's an intersex/gynomorph and I still don't care about your opinion".

The official position of Arc System Works is that Sin Kiske is 4 years old. Therefore, we should tag all Sin Kiske posts as young_human (and then delete them) regardless of the post's visual content.

That is the logical conclusion when people suggest that character creators should have priority over TWYS.

I really don't get it. This forum is full of offers and changes. Almost every day tags are being rewritten and rearranged. Why are you so against of doing the same to one rule? I'm not asking to stop using it entirely or rewrite it from scratch. I'm only asking to make it less stupid. Just a simple addition would work:

"If the original content has proper tags these tags should be used instead of TWYS, unless these tags involve illegal and harmful content."

Yeah, I just came up with it in 10 seconds and it can be improved, but still it'd be a simple addition to the rule and a fairly easy one to follow. I'm sure you already have very detailed lists of what's allowed to be posted and what not, so there won't be a problem determining "illegal and harmful content".

flavia_grandville said:
I really don't get it. This forum is full of offers and changes. Almost every day tags are being rewritten and rearranged. Why are you so against of doing the same to one rule? I'm not asking to stop using it entirely or rewrite it from scratch. I'm only asking to make it less stupid. Just a simple addition would work:

"If the original content has proper tags these tags should be used instead of TWYS, unless these tags involve illegal and harmful content."

Yeah, I just came up with it in 10 seconds and it can be improved, but still it'd be a simple addition to the rule and a fairly easy one to follow. I'm sure you already have very detailed lists of what's allowed to be posted and what not, so there won't be a problem determining "illegal and harmful content".

None of the tags involve illegal and/or harmful content; posts involving such are destroyed. Those are just tags you (and others) take exception to

edit: aight my reading comprehension has left me at this hour

snpthecat said:
None of the tags involve illegal and/or harmful content; posts involving such are destroyed.

Please, read it again:

"If the original content has proper tags these tags should be used instead of TWYS, unless these tags involve illegal and harmful content."

It means if, for example, the original picture on FA was tagged properly - these tags (from FA) should be used for tagging in here, unless these tags (from FA) contradict E621 content policy.

If it's so easy, then define what "proper" means. We use sex as a tag on this site, so should we tag solo images as "sex" if a Furaffinity post is tagged with "sex", regardless of the post's actual visual content?

If "proper" means excluding source tags that contradict our current tagging policies, then this entire proposal is completely pointless, because we already tag gender and species according to our own policies. Literally nothing would change.

How would tags involve illegal content for an image that, I assume, is allowed to be here. Unless like, someone is using them as a confession box about their crime I guess.

lafcadio said:
If it's so easy, then define what "proper" means. We use sex as a tag on this site, so should we tag solo images as "sex" if a Furaffinity post is tagged with "sex", regardless of the post's actual visual content?

You already defined it yourself by providing this example. Was it hard?
"Sex" tag here means one thing and "sex" tag on FA could means another.
But is there any difference between "male" tag on E621 and "male" tag on FA? Do they mean different things?

lafcadio said:
If "proper" means excluding source tags that contradict our current tagging policies, then this entire proposal is completely pointless, because we already tag gender and species according to our own policies. Literally nothing would change.

Yet you tag male characters as "intersex" and "gynomorphs".

regsmutt said:
How would tags involve illegal content for an image that, I assume, is allowed to be here. Unless like, someone is using them as a confession box about their crime I guess.

You've got it the wrong way. It's not "legal picture with illegal tag", it's "illegal picture with legal tag".

TWYS already has exceptions:

• Artist/Copyright/Meta tags can be outside the scope of TWYS by definition
• External knowledge can be used to disambiguate which character is being depicted, when it's ambiguous
• Lore tags are created when we want more exceptions

crocogator said:
TWYS already has exceptions:

• Artist/Copyright/Meta tags can be outside the scope of TWYS by definition

Then WHY THE DUCK the moderators ignored my report on incorrect tagging of the picture I OWN, I COMMISSIONED, the picture of MY CHARACTER?

flavia_grandville said:
Then WHY THE DUCK the moderators ignored my report on incorrect tagging of the picture I OWN, I COMMISSIONED, the picture of MY CHARACTER?

You mean post #4007697? Gynomorph is a General tag, not Artist/Copyright/Meta. It's not an exception to TWYS.

flavia_grandville said:
You already defined it yourself by providing this example. Was it hard?
"Sex" tag here means one thing and "sex" tag on FA could mean another.
But is there a difference between "male" tag on E621 and "male" tag on FA? Do they mean different things?

They do mean different things, actually. On this site, a male character must be demonstrably male, and not ambiguous. If somebody tags Kirby as male on a post that lacks any apparent sex features, then we have ways to handle that.
On FA, sex is effectively an informed attribute. If somebody tags Kirby as male on a post that lacks any apparent sex features, then that's that.

flavia_grandville said:
Yet you tag male characters as "intersex" and "gynomorphs".

Is there a specific post you want to point to that should not be tagged as gynomorph under the current policies?
post #4007697 has some pretty substantial boobage, I think you just don't understand how gender tagging works here.

crocogator said:
You mean post #4007697? Gynomorph is a General tag, not Artist/Copyright/Meta. It's not an exception to TWYS.

Oooh, right, because you don't care about what I own and what I created. My opinion, as the art/character owner doesn't matter, because OTHER people are SURELY know what MY character is. And don't even try to bring "illegal content" as an example here, I'm talking not about underage characters or harmful content, I'm talking simply about gender.

lafcadio said:
Is there a specific post you want to point to that should not be tagged as gynomorph under the current policies?
post #4007697 has some pretty substantial boobage, I think you just don't understand how gender tagging works here.

Yes, it's a boy with tits and even big belly. No, tits and belly don't turn a boy into "intersex" or "gynomorph" automatically.

flavia_grandville said:
Then WHY THE DUCK the moderators ignored my report on incorrect tagging of the picture I OWN, I COMMISSIONED, the picture of MY CHARACTER?

First of all, you are allowed to swear in the forum but please calm down either way.

Second of all, please consult our guide on How To Tag Genders

If we allowed a character with breasts to be tagged "male", we would receive 100s of complaints of blacklist malfunction.

Every time someone complains that TWYS is dumb and should be improved, those people apparently have not considered that we have put a lot more thought on the issue than they did.

Your personal individual concerns are valid and we try to accomodate them as much as possible, but ultimately running an imageboard requires the enforcement of certain strict guidelines, otherwise things just stop working for everyone.

gattonero2001 said:
If we allowed a character with breasts to be tagged "male", we would receive 100s of complaints of blacklist malfunction.

Invent "bustyboy" or "male with tits" tag. You have tags for almost everything here, even a bunch of tags for stockings of different colors, why not add a tag for that? You even have "male pregnancy" tag, which was used with that picture.

All I asked is for a little bit of respect to my creation, to something I own, cherish and want to share with the world. And what I've got here? I've been treated like nobody, like I have no voice over thing I've made and own and someone else has the right to twist my ideas.

flavia_grandville said:
Yes, it's a boy with tits and even big belly. No, tits and belly don't turn a boy into "intersex" or "gynomorph" automatically.

It does, actually, because that's what we use those tags for.

It seems to me like this entire complaint is based on you thinking that your post should show up in male/male searches, despite being visually dissimilar to most male/male content.
Do you believe that post #2629971 should show up in solo male searches because the character is indicated as ♂?

flavia_grandville said:

"If the original content has proper tags these tags should be used instead of TWYS, unless these tags involve illegal and harmful content."

Could you expand on what specifically you mean by proper tags? I'm trying to get my head around how this would work in theory, and that phrase is a little vague. I would be concerned that using external tagging standards would create a precident for tagging at the lowest standard of whichever external site we take tags from.

The other thing I'd like clarification on is the intent behind the illegal and harmful content phrase, as it's not terribly easy to parse. Is it referring to illegal/harmful tags, or images with content that is illegal/harmful?

We would need some way for people to search/exclude images that proportion to show one thing, but without external context, do not show that thing and vice versa.

The final thing that any such change would have to account for is the potential for bad actors to stuff the original source tags in order to have an ironclad defence as to why that tag belongs on the image. (for example tagging propaganda or hate images in such a way as to maximise visibility)

I do not wanna see exaggeratedly feminine characters with tits when I am trying to look at men 😭

flavia_grandville said:
Invent "bustyboy" or "male with tits" tag.

Also isn't that exactly what gynomorph is? It means character that has a penis and a feminine body shape.

lafcadio said:
It does

So, if, for example, I kidnap you and force you to undergo a plastic surgery that will change your appearance, will it change your gender identity as well? By your logic - yes.

quenir said:
Could you expand on what specifically you mean by proper tags? I'm trying to get my head around how this would work in theory, and that phrase is a little vague. I would be concerned that using external tagging standards would create a precident for tagging at the lowest standard of whichever external site we take tags from.

Yes, my phrasing was very crude, I admitted it. By "proper" tags I meant tags with their meaning matching between the soruce and E621 tag base (male-male, balloon-balloon, condom-condom, etc.)

quenir said:
The other thing I'd like clarification on is the intent behind the illegal and harmful content phrase, as it's not terribly easy to parse. Is it referring to illegal/harmful tags, or images with content that is illegal/harmful?

Bad phrasing on my side, too. I meant illegal/harmful areas/themes. For example, underage content is illegal on E621, right? So any tag about character age that stated with the original image will be irrelevant. Same with harmful content - if the picture contains scat and tagged "chocolate" then the visual aspect of the picture has higher priority over tags. But if the picture has no illegal/harmful themes then the original tags should be prioritized over TWYS. Maybe it's still a poor explanation, I'll try to come up with something better if it wasn't clear enough.

quenir said:
We would need some way for people to search/exclude images that proportion to show one thing, but without external context, do not show that thing and vice versa.

The final thing that any such change would have to account for is the potential for bad actors to stuff the original source tags in order to have an ironclad defence as to why that tag belongs on the image. (for example tagging propaganda or hate images in such a way as to maximise visibility)

I absolutely understand it and I'm not saying that I'm against the filtering. I just want to give slightly more priority to the original tags, to what the artists/art owners think of their art (except the illegal/harmful areas/themes).

rupikonna said:
I do not wanna see exaggeratedly feminine characters with tits when I am trying to look at men 😭

Also isn't that exactly what gynomorph is? It means character that has a penis and a feminine body shape.

Gynomorph is too ambiguous. It could mean both a man with feminine body or a female with male parts or really anything in between (transgender, etc.).

Also, you keep talking about "not wanting to see X". You may be the majority here, I wouldn't even doubt it. But what about minority that "wants to see X"? Have you thought of them? Of those who comes to E621 in search for exactly men with tits and bustyboys? How can they find what they enjoy if all they have is the vague "intersex" and "gynomorph" tags?

flavia_grandville said:
So, if, for example, I kidnap you and force you to undergo a plastic surgery that will change your appearance, will it change your gender identity as well? By your logic - yes.

You are confusing sex and gender. Sex is in the General category, gender is in the Lore category. Again, please read the guide linked above.

rupikonna said:
Also isn't that exactly what gynomorph is? It means character that has a penis and a feminine body shape.

Yes and no. It's tricky.
On paper, a bustyboy would be a masculine character with the addition of breasts and nothing else, versus a gynomorph being a feminine character with the addition of a penis, removal of the vulva, and nothing else.
Compare and contrast with andromorph vs. female: not all females with flat chests are necessarily andromorphs. muscular_andromorph in particular will have a lot of obvious examples of this.

In practice, I don't think there's any satisfactory way to easily separate "bustyboy" characters from existing tags like moobs, big_pecs, or muscular_gynomorph. At least, no way that I've been made aware of.
In some cases, characters like pb_(theycallhimcake) are just indistinguishable from females/gynomorphs period; you'd only know the difference if you were reading dialogue (mostly irrelevant for tagging) or had prior knowledge of the character (mostly irrelevant for tagging).

flavia_grandville said:
So, if, for example, I kidnap you and force you to undergo a plastic surgery that will change your appearance, will it change your gender identity as well? By your logic - yes.

If that's what you think "my logic" implies, then you don't understand "my logic" - period.

Also, you keep talking about "not wanting to see X". You may be the majority here, I'm quite sure in it. But what about minority that "wants to see X"? Have you thought of them? Of those who comes to E621 in search for exactly men with tits and bustyboys? How can they find what they enjoy if all they have is the vague "intersex" and "gynomorph" tags?

If that's what you want to do, then you don't need to undo TWYS. Try making a good set of guidelines for a "bustyboy" tag first.

I just want to add that "bustyboy" as a tag wouldn't work that well. People also use it to refer to mtf_crossgender .

flavia_grandville said:
So, if, for example, I kidnap you and force you to undergo a plastic surgery that will change your appearance, will it change your gender identity as well? By your logic - yes.

male/female/gynomorph/herm/etc aren't gender identity, they're sex/physical appearance. If a character that looks male undergoes surgery or magic to add breasts while keeping their penis, they would indeed appear as a gynomorph, irrespective of how they identify. Lore tags are used when the character's gender identity differs from their physical appearance.

flavia_grandville said:
Yes, my phrasing was very crude, I admitted it. By "proper" tags I meant tags with their meaning matching between the soruce and E621 tag base (male-male, balloon-balloon, condom-condom, etc.)

That undermines the whole issue. male/male has a specific meaning in e621, referring to two male-appearing characters interacting in certain ways. If the source tags male/male or gay when there aren't two male-appearing characters interacting in such ways, it would not match in meaning and thus wouldn't be applicable here. Which is exactly how it is already.

Someone who blacklists straight porn would not appreciate posts like this getting through their blacklists.

flavia_grandville said:
Bad phrasing on my side, too. I meant illegal/harmful areas/themes. For example, underage content is illegal on E621, right?

No, underage characters are fine here, as long as they are of the furry variety. Young human and humanoid characters in adult situations aren't allowed, but they're not "illegal" here, they're simply deleted as Irrelevant to Site just like a pure adult human image. No legal action is taken.

Relatedly, e6 also uses TWYS rules to determine whether a character is human (which isn't allowed by itself) or humanoid (which is otherwise allowed). Plenty of people argue how their human-looking character is really a humanoid and should stay, despite looking human and not being what the site is intended for. Going by what the source says for what a character is would create a real mess and severely damage the utility of the tagging system.

demonthedarkhound said:
I just want to add that "bustyboy" as a tag wouldn't work that well. People also use it to refer to mtf_crossgender .

Do you have any examples of the word/tag being used this way? This use is completely unfamiliar to me; if people actually do use it that way, then that's kind of troubling.

flavia_grandville said:
Invent "bustyboy" or "male with tits" tag. You have tags for almost everything here, even a bunch of tags for stockings of different colors, why not add a tag for that? You even have "male pregnancy" tag, which was used with that picture.

All I asked is for a little bit of respect to my creation, to something I own, cherish and want to share with the world. And what I've got here? I've been treated like nobody, like I have no voice over thing I've made and own and someone else has the right to twist my ideas.

There's the moobs tag, which isn't great because it gets used for a lot of different stuff, but does include masculine-shaped characters with breats.
Now the line between "femboy with moobs" and "gynomorph" can and does get VERY blurry:
post #4407983post #3961578post #5032112

Ultimately gender/sex tags, especially when it comes to stuff that isn't purely female or purely male, aren't perfect. There's a ton of grey area, but ultimately it comes down to "what would be most helpful for searching."

flavia_grandville said:
Gynomorph is too ambiguous. It could mean both a man with feminine body or a female with male parts or really anything in between (transgender, etc.).

that is a feature not a bug. it's one of the reasons we moved away from using dickgirl as the tag name, the tag's no longer as tied to common gendered language, it's obfuscated slightly.

lafcadio said:
Do you have any examples of the word/tag being used this way? This use is completely unfamiliar to me; if people actually do use it that way, then that's kind of troubling.

well, there's Phyco, I've seen people who'd class him as "bustyboy".

regsmutt said:
There's the moobs tag, which isn't great because it gets used for a lot of different stuff, but does include masculine-shaped characters with breats.

No, moobs is supposed to be for overweight_males who have enough fatty tissue on their chest to create breast-like fat rolls. moobs and breasts should be mutually exclusive for a given character. If breasts and penis are tagged for the same character, they should be tagged gynomorph or herm, without moobs, otherwise it's a mistag.

lafcadio said:
Do you have any examples of the word/tag being used this way? This use is completely unfamiliar to me; if people actually do use it that way, then that's kind of troubling.

Not here on e6, but over on FA. Especially in the works of Dracojeff where a lot of characters are implied/stated to be males transformed into females. Sometimes these characters still identify as male ( Phyco being the best example), but not always.

watsit said:
That undermines the whole issue. male/male has a specific meaning in e621, referring to two male-appearing characters interacting in certain ways. If the source tags male/male or gay when there aren't two male-appearing characters interacting in such ways, it would not match in meaning and thus wouldn't be applicable here. Which is exactly how it is already.

Someone who blacklists straight porn would not appreciate posts like this getting through their blacklists.

I meant not "male having sex with another male" tag but "male" source tag and "male" tag of E621 base. Weren't you confused by "balloon-balloon" example? Or is there really a tag for specifying two balloons in particular? I'm genuinely curious.

And yes, I know "bustyboy" is a very tricky-to-use tag, I'm getting confused with bustyboy characters all the time. That's why I just wanted my character to be tagged as male. Maybe with additional tag(s) to show that he has tits, but still remains a male, not something amorphous and genderless like "intersex". A tag that wouldn't replace the gender one(s), but highligh certain details. Maybe along the line of "big breasts" tag, but specifically for males, not "big breasts" in general.

flavia_grandville said:
I meant not "male having sex with another male" tag but "male" source tag and "male" tag of E621 base. Weren't you confused by "balloon-balloon" example? Or is there really a tag for specifying two balloons in particular? I'm genuinely curious.

And yes, I know "bustyboy" is a very tricky-to-use tag, I'm getting confused with bustyboy characters all the time. That's why I just wanted my character to be tagged as male. Maybe with additional tag(s) to show that he has tits, but still remains a male, not something amorphous and genderless like "intersex". A tag that wouldn't replace the gender one(s), but highligh certain details. Maybe along the line of "big breasts" tag, but specifically for males, not "big breasts" in general.

that's... literally what male_(lore) is for.

flavia_grandville said:
I meant not "male having sex with another male" tag but "male" source tag and "male" tag of E621 base. Weren't you confused by "balloon-balloon" example? Or is there really a tag for specifying two balloons in particular? I'm genuinely curious.

And yes, I know "bustyboy" is a very tricky-to-use tag, I'm getting confused with bustyboy characters all the time. That's why I just wanted my character to be tagged as male. Maybe with additional tag(s) to show that he has tits, but still remains a male, not something amorphous and genderless like "intersex". A tag that wouldn't replace the gender one(s), but highligh certain details. Maybe along the line of "big breasts" tag, but specifically for males, not "big breasts" in general.

i know you're opposed to it but that is literally what the lore tags are for. Male_(lore) is exactly what you are asking for. the gynomorph/intersex tag helps people who don't want to see your character, because some people just don't want to see tits when looking for men or male/male content.

and listen my character is a gender that isn't very represented, but on site i tag her as female because she looks female to a layperson. no one is changing her gender, they're just classifying the sex characteristics so that people can find the art that they enjoy.

dba_afish said:
that's... literally what male_(lore) is for.

No, it's the opposite. male_(lore) doesn't prevent "intersex" and "gynomorph" tags from being used. I absolutely do not want my character to be tagged with those two tags. My character is male (with tits, in this particular case), not "formerly male, but now only god knows what".

manitka said:
i know you're opposed to it but that is literally what the lore tags are for. Male_(lore) is exactly what you are asking for. the gynomorph/intersex tag helps people who don't want to see your character, because some people just don't want to see tits when looking for men or male/male content.

and listen my character is a gender that isn't very represented, but on site i tag her as female because she looks female to a layperson. no one is changing her gender, they're just classifying the sex characteristics so that people can find the art that they enjoy.

Then there should be separate "male tits" tag that doesn't replace gender tag and people could ignore it to avoid seeing male/male sex with tits. "Gynomorph/intersex on male" isn't equal to male/male sex.

I have another character, a genderfluid female/hermaphrodite. And I'm absolutely fine with any gender tags being used with her - female, intersex, whatever. But with my male character I want male tag to be used and only that, because he's only a male and nothing else.

flavia_grandville said:
But with my male character I want male tag to be used and only that, because he's only a male and nothing else.

And that is unacceptable; doing so breaks blacklists and makes searching worse, because these tags are exclusively visual appearance rather than identity. A post being tagged male should not be interpreted as the character identifying as a male, same with the other gender tags. The only tags that actually specify identity are the lore ones.

It is, of course, your right as a character owner to disagree with this; you have already successfully done a takedown.
The policy will not be changed, and persisting with tagging against TWYS would likely get you banned.

flavia_grandville said:
No, it's the opposite. male_(lore) doesn't prevent "intersex" and "gynomorph" tags from being used. I absolutely do not want my character to be tagged with those two tags. My character is male (with tits, in this particular case), not "formerly male, but now only god knows what".

Then there should be separate "male tits" tag that doesn't replace gender tag and people could ignore it to avoid seeing male/male sex with tits. "Gynomorph/intersex on male" isn't equal to male/male sex.

I have another character, a genderfluid female/hermaphrodite. And I'm absolutely fine with any gender tags being used with her - female, intersex, whatever. But with my male character I want male tag to be used and only that, because he's only a male and nothing else.

tags aren't only for _your_ benefit. they're for everyone, for blacklisting, searching, or browsing. making exceptions to TWYS breaks the entire system. fundamentally.

if our tagging system (or any other facet of the site, for that matter) offends you in some way you're perfectly welcome to ask the staff to remove content that contains anything belonging to you. but TWYS is kind of the most core tenant of the site, and it has been since launch back in '07, more or less; it's unlikely to ever change. it's unfortunate to see someone have to do that, but the rules just aren't going to be bent.

scth said:
And that is unacceptable; doing so breaks blacklists and makes searching worse, because these tags are exclusively visual appearance rather than identity. A post being tagged male should not be interpreted as the character identifying as a male, same with the other gender tags. The only tags that actually specify identity are the lore ones.

It is, of course, your right as a character owner to disagree with this; you have already successfully done a takedown.
The policy will not be changed, and persisting with tagging against TWYS would likely get you banned.

I keep hearing about blacklist over and over again. is that really the only thing on E621 you proud of? That people can blacklist tags? Because to me it looks like the only thing you value. And unfortunately to me it doesn't look that valuable at all. Because the tagging issue wasn't the main reason why I requested art takedown, it was just the final drop. The real issue was this site's community - this place is full of toxic, whiny people who only complain about not wanting to see this or that kink. How many positive comments my art received here? One-two under each picture at best and each was very simple "cool art" or "I like her". And what else? Kinkshaming, mockery and pricking. Yes, I know my art is a mess of lewdness and kinks and it's not for everyone. But is that the best the famous friendly and accepting furry community can do? To throw rocks at me for being different?

You know what's really funny? The R34 site, much more primitive than E621, much dumber and not furry-oriented at all. But people there are much, much more welcoming! I've seen ten times more positive comments under my art there than here! People there deeply enjoyed my characters! And I've seen no complains about the unusual kinks at all despite them being nearly careless about tagging and blocking.

So yeah, it all doesn't matter to me. I will never post art here. By this topic I only wanted to bring your attention to this issue and to my deepest disappointment you prefer to ignore it, to stick to what you have, to the bureaucratic system you've built and maintain and worship as if it's flawless. But it's not. It's full of flaws you refuse to notice. You're blinded by your own believes in your system's perfection.

You've made E621 into a site that's focused on avoiding harm. But you've missed its true goal - to give joy. This place isn't for fun and enjoyment. This place is for you to enforce your laws and rules, to stand above the others. That's the real reason why I've left. If at least some of you will think of my words - good. And if you want to ban me - go ahead! I have nothing to lose here.

flavia_grandville said:
I keep hearing about blacklist over and over again. is that really the only thing on E621 you proud of? That people can blacklist tags?

a functional blacklist is probably top 3 reasons we're the most visited furry-centric website on the internet, so... y-yeh, kinda important.

flavia_grandville said:
Because the tagging issue wasn't the main reason why I requested art takedown, it was just the final drop. The real issue was this site's community - this place is full of toxic, whiny people who only complain about not wanting to see this or that kink. How many positive comments my art received here? One-two under each picture at best and each was very simple "cool art" or "I like her". And what else? Kinkshaming, mockery and pricking. Yes, I know my art is a mess of lewdness and kinks and it's not for everyone. But is that the best the famous friendly and accepting furry community can do? To throw rocks at me for being different?

you know you can, like, report people, right? everything you're describing here is explicitly against the rules.

This discussion has run its course.

TWYS aren't going anywhere, and OP seems to not be interested in hearing reason.
So instead of dragging this on and on, I'll stop it right here.