Bluntly, what art community will actually get me somewhere? None of the furry fandom websites are good at building any meaningful recognition, and I had more engagement from making one game on Itch.io than I had from ten years of being in the furry fandom.
I have a new game in the design phase, but for the meantime, where do I post stuff to get anything in return?

Twitter is hit and miss - manly miss, from what I've seen, and seems it's only good because you can script AI bots to inflate your views and likes. I've tried DeviantArt, which is terrible, as was Weasyl and Inkbunny. I post on Furaffinity and SoFurry purely from tradition more than anything, and because there's genuinely a few peeps who seem to enjoy my art, and here on e621, as other boorus at least mirror it so my art gets somewhat spread around.

But where do I go to actually get something out of my hard work? I've been suggested Hentaifoundry and Newgrounds, but will it be any different over there? I need somewhere where it feels I can build myself up, not where I get a two minute chance at a 'new' feed lottery in exchange for twenty hours of hard work a try.

I have a couple of thoughts on sites and platforms, and a couple of more general thoughts on growing an audience.

I hope those thoughts are useful for you!

Check out postybirb. You can post to EVERY site at once and not have to decide between them.

I will start by saying that I'm thankful you took your time to write to me, and that I value any input I get. I'm stating this right at the start, because the meat of my reply will likely read like a hostile burst of argumentation.

As I said, I was probably extremely vile in my reply. If it makes any difference, take it as my reluctance to the ideas themselves, and not an attack at your person. I'm looking for something very different. One art community that perhaps works a bit differently, like my example with Itch.io. Or confirmation of my thesis that all furry art communities are like this, so I can just accept it's a lost cause, and just trickle my efforts into purely accepting commissions and making games.

cloudpie said:
Check out postybirb. You can post to EVERY site at once and not have to decide between them.

That is a good suggestion. I've seen this service in a fleeting manner, was a bit let down with how it handles tags, but this would be a great upgrade to my efforts. And it likely got improved since the last time I tried it.

tlapa said:
I checked your FA profile, and your techniques for getting and maintaining watchers seem completely different from what you posted as advice. Commissioning already popular artists for...

Ah, I might have given the wrong impression. I mentioned my authorship, because most of the advice I've presented has been gleaned from discussions with and observations of my author friends who've grown their popularity on the back of their own work. I'm specifying that my advice comes from a background in the writing community, not the community of furry visual artists.

I'm not here to claim that my watcher count is due to the content I produce myself.

Ah, thank you for the clarification. As I said, my tone was overly vile -- much like my mood lately -- and the conclusion was fleeting.
I checked the Telegram bot you mentioned. Would love if the websites themselves offered such functionality.

I've had writer friends on SoFurry leave the fandom completely after years of effort and following that exact community advice and getting literally nowhere. People who were better writers than me. I'm merely explaining, not justifying my gripe.

As for me, I either have a thicker skull than most, or I can't take a hint. Haha. Either way, I've no ill feelings toward you, and on the contrary, I thank you for communicating with me.

If what you're hoping to get out of the furry community is fame and fortune as opposed to community and a hobby, the blunt force answer to your question is to announce in the right places that you are now open for commissions, and all content is accepted with no exceptions. That will net you a guaranteed long-term high income stream of the vilest work you can imagine, with few competitors, loyal customers, and probably the ability to charge premium prices. I don't know if that would make you happy, but the impression I'm getting is that you don't exactly consider art to be its own reward so maybe that business model would be more up your alley.

I've had the same experience with FA and Twitter. FA is a very slow, linear growth while Twitter is like playing the lottery.

I second the Newgrounds suggestion. It has a few barriers to entry though. You have to be scouted by someone to be allowed to post into portals, and your games and videos get voted on to determine if they're allowed on the site. Generally its on par with E621 with quality expected and looking at your art I think you would pass fine, though waiting for a scout can take a while.

Once your game or video passes judgement, it will be put in the portal. Because there's only so many videos and games uploaded a day, you're guaranteed a spot in the latest category for a while. If it does well enough then you can get into popular. So there is a tiny bit of an algorithm game you have to play, but I prefer it over having none at all like FA or having too much like Twitter. And unlike those two the search function is somewhat useful so you can passively get more views and engagement on older content.

My first animation on a pretty small account got 20,000 views and got me to 375 followers, and I'm not a particularly good animator so take that with what you will. There definitely is a luck component but it seems a lot more fair than Twitter. As a game dev you could probably benefit a lot from using Newgrounds as its one of the few gallery / social media sites that allows people to upload and play games on the site itself (though only in flash or html5)

wat8548 said:
If what you're hoping to get out of the furry community is fame and fortune as opposed to community and a hobby, the blunt force answer to your question is to announce in the right places that you are now open for commissions, and all content is accepted with no exceptions. That will net you a guaranteed long-term high income stream of the vilest work you can imagine, with few competitors, loyal customers, and probably the ability to charge premium prices. I don't know if that would make you happy, but the impression I'm getting is that you don't exactly consider art to be its own reward so maybe that business model would be more up your alley.

This is accurate.
I have also been in the right place, on the right time, to observe someone saying they get a kick (or rather, a twitch) in exploiting artists in their most vulnerable moment. When there is no other choice but to assemble content I will leave to your imagination. Much like the specifics of what the artist is facing in their life to submit. Because I would rather not give any free ideas to any scoundrel that might run with it.

Someone can absolutely surrender, pigeonhole themselves into a situation not all unlike being a graphic designer for a major film, game studio, and produce only, and exactly, specifically and quickly what they are being ordered to produce.

It's accurate, but it's also wrong.
Not logically, but spiritually.
Which is the realm that creative and emotional depth operate inside of.

And that's all a hell of a rebuke, but I can't say what I have to offer is an equivalent answer.
I am a bit of a (still unrecognized) author, and I'm pretty square in MonroeTheLizard's position as audience / commissioner, but I can at least tell you the silly thing that really catches my eye.

Not that I can give any examples of what I've commissioned (I've made sure all of is on DNP), but,
what I latch onto before anything else is emotionality, funny enough. Complex. Nuanced. Bold. Filled with life and complimented with life-like, animated, imaginative posing and blocking. I bring that up because a lot of the time, I don't see that in even especially well made art, which otherwise seems clinical, static, lifeless, cold. It's something I pick up on more often with the pornographic than the nonpornographic. I like seeing animal folk living organic, natural lives where sex compliments discreetly rather than dominates overtly.

I'd like to think I'm not the only weirdo that feels this way, which is where my point comes in:

There may be an equal and opposite audience of nutcases out there.
Looking for that before another well rendered set of genitals coming together.

If they're anything like I'd like to imagine myself, they might be a more forgiving, less aggressive bunch, too.

I just joined 3 days ago, and I got almost 600 followers there https://itaku.ee/home/images
After FA and Twitter mess, lots of people are moving there. So it would be nice more people joined and make it active instead of letting it die like Weasyl.

wat8548 said:

If what you're hoping to get out of the furry community is fame and fortune as opposed to community and a hobby, the blunt force answer to your question is to announce in the right places that you are now open for commissions, and all content is accepted with no exceptions. That will net you a guaranteed long-term high income stream of the vilest work you can imagine, with few competitors, loyal customers, and probably the ability to charge premium prices. I don't know if that would make you happy, but the impression I'm getting is that you don't exactly consider art to be its own reward so maybe that business model would be more up your alley.

I'm trying to squander the 'hope' part of my creative efforts as much as possible - it's the main source of anxiety, that dangling carrot on a stick. And for that, I've to improve the self-promotion side of the craft as much as I'm improving the skill of my digital painting itself. Neither will happen if it least some basic causality isn't present, which is something that is well accepted in the real world, but somehow a blasphemy to expect in the internet art world and major furry communities.

Going for the most vile commissions is a good advice in itself. As to whether I want fame and fortune or community and hobby, I do want both in moderation. I'm slowly getting the community and hobby aspect, if only by wildly clawing for it in aggression; the trickle of fame and fortune may eventually follow.

whitev said:

I've had the same experience with FA and Twitter. FA is a very slow, linear growth while Twitter is like playing the lottery.

I second the Newgrounds suggestion. It has a few barriers to entry though. You have to be scouted by someone to be allowed to post into portals, and your games and videos get voted on to determine if they're allowed on the site. Generally its on par with E621 with quality expected and looking at your art I think you would pass fine, though waiting for a scout can take a while.

Once your game or video passes judgement, it will be put in the portal. Because there's only so many videos and games uploaded a day, you're guaranteed a spot in the latest category for a while. If it does well enough then you can get into popular. So there is a tiny bit of an algorithm game you have to play, but I prefer it over having none at all like FA or having too much like Twitter. And unlike those two the search function is somewhat useful so you can passively get more views and engagement on older content.

My first animation on a pretty small account got 20,000 views and got me to 375 followers, and I'm not a particularly good animator so take that with what you will. There definitely is a luck component but it seems a lot more fair than Twitter. As a game dev you could probably benefit a lot from using Newgrounds as its one of the few gallery / social media sites that allows people to upload and play games on the site itself (though only in flash or html5)

My experience is even worse, though I've always refrained from Twitter and the like. Even that FA's steady growth feels like a lottery to me. A piece may net a bit of growth, or it may get completely overlooked. Since art in itself is more a form of communication than a clearly defined product, getting no communication back is the equivalent of trying to chat up the wrong crowd of people.

I actually like a more defined system, even if it may be an entry barrier. e621 has the tag system (even if majority of users ignore it and punch in their favourite artist, exactly like in FA) which I think is helping me to grow some audience. That fake anarchy that majority seem to revel in comes with an even harsher barrier of unwritten rules and cliquish inner groups. I take it Newgrounds isn't for static visual forms at all? I'm not planning to try animating as it's not something I enjoy, and games take forever to make, but I'll likely expand there with my next gaming project.

Thank you for your thoughts.

letforeverdieslow said:

This is accurate.
I have also been in the right place, on the right time, to observe someone saying they get a kick (or rather, a twitch) in exploiting artists in their most vulnerable moment. When there is no other choice but to assemble content I will leave to your imagination. Much like the specifics of what the artist is facing in their life to submit. Because I would rather not give any free ideas to any scoundrel that might run with it.

Someone can absolutely surrender, pigeonhole themselves into a situation not all unlike being a graphic designer for a major film, game studio, and produce only, and exactly, specifically and quickly what they are being ordered to produce.

It's accurate, but it's also wrong.
Not logically, but spiritually.
Which is the realm that creative and emotional depth operate inside of.

And that's all a hell of a rebuke, but I can't say what I have to offer is an equivalent answer.
I am a bit of a (still unrecognized) author, and I'm pretty square in MonroeTheLizard's position as audience / commissioner, but I can at least tell you the silly thing that really catches my eye.

Not that I can give any examples of what I've commissioned (I've made sure all of is on DNP), but,
what I latch onto before anything else is emotionality, funny enough. Complex. Nuanced. Bold. Filled with life and complimented with life-like, animated, imaginative posing and blocking. I bring that up because a lot of the time, I don't see that in even especially well made art, which otherwise seems clinical, static, lifeless, cold. It's something I pick up on more often with the pornographic than the nonpornographic. I like seeing animal folk living organic, natural lives where sex compliments discreetly rather than dominates overtly.

I'd like to think I'm not the only weirdo that feels this way, which is where my point comes in:

There may be an equal and opposite audience of nutcases out there.
Looking for that before another well rendered set of genitals coming together.

If they're anything like I'd like to imagine myself, they might be a more forgiving, less aggressive bunch, too.

I very much know such people exist, and above all, how common they actually are. I've given in myself from desperation in the past, thankfully only on two occasions, but even that was two occasions too many. As of now, I get a twitch out of rejecting them, so I invite them to come and try to exploit me for free art. Perhaps I'll even start stringing them along -- what a jest, but at times, I like to be the villain.

I'm not shackled to art as a form of income, old gods be thanked, as my intuition always steered me away from a professional career. Money is not the problem, effort and energy are. As a somewhat crude saying goes, if I do something for eight hours a day, it's no longer hobby, no matter how much I may enjoy it otherwise.

I cannot say if I even edge close to what you find emotionally engaging, I do enjoy explicit nature of furry work a major deal, albeit, I do greatly value the twitches and sparkles of feeling in all of it, and more-so in explicit. Perhaps I'm as dull and clinical as most of them, only on the side of the barrier that is not famous, but I do create all work with the flow of what I see in the space in-between, and what my Muse finds stimulating. After all, I like to think that even something that is regarded as low as porn can be just as apt at being a storytelling medium like any other, even in the strongest, most raunchy form of exposed detail.

Style of neo-noir is something I very enjoy, and bring aspects of into my art, and so are tinges of horror and macabre. In time, I'd want to explore these a lot more deeply, as the line between horror and sex is just as raw as the explicit nature of a fox holding her orchid open for everyone to see.

Perhaps it's all just pretence on my part, and I'm just a furry yiff hack that thinks too highly and too lowly of himself all at the same time.

But isn't paradox the very fabric of life and universe in itself?

benitocamelo said:
I just joined 3 days ago, and I got almost 600 followers there https://itaku.ee/home/images
After FA and Twitter mess, lots of people are moving there. So it would be nice more people joined and make it active instead of letting it die like Weasyl.

Thank you for sharing the site, I wasn't aware it existed. Sounds too good to be true, but perhaps a sober evaluation can be pieced together.
Indeed, Weasyl just ended up being the exact same bb messaging board with a 'new' algorithm like majority of the already established players. Good user interface can't save a mundane database of posts that are impossible to search through.

tlapa said:
Thank you for sharing the site, I wasn't aware it existed. Sounds too good to be true, but perhaps a sober evaluation can be pieced together.
Indeed, Weasyl just ended up being the exact same bb messaging board with a 'new' algorithm like majority of the already established players. Good user interface can't save a mundane database of posts that are impossible to search through.

We're currently in an early growth phase of new site genre cycle. That is, while sites like FA and Twitter are still going strong, now people are looking into alternatives more than they were 5 years ago. I guess in 10-15 years, we'll be seeing people trying to replace Itaku, haha.

alphamule said:
We're currently in an early growth phase of new site genre cycle. That is, while sites like FA and Twitter are still going strong, now people are looking into alternatives more than they were 5 years ago. I guess in 10-15 years, we'll be seeing people trying to replace Itaku, haha.

Indeed, the endless cycle of societal transformation, and its ever lasting gripes. This time, it is sorely needed, the old style was out of style even before its prime. Though, I predict major change in the industry to happen only with the death of DeviantArt, as to this day, it's what IBM used to be in the world of computing. A convenient blueprint.

The next thing will be AI assisted distribution of art and artists, unless those wonderful people that use AI art generators and then finish up the output by hand don't cause a complete art blackout in the meantime.

Musings aside, I've decided to take a chance with Itaku, it's clearly trying to do things better, and that's exactly what I'm looking for.

What's the current topical drama, if I may? Also, just because something is a fad, which user migration certainly is, it doesn't invalidate the argument that the long standing sites are terrible at bringing content to their possible audience. The only one benefiting from the current status quo are the site owners and superstar artists.

kora_viridian said:
Posted January 2014: https://www.furaffinity.net/view/12520996/

Lies, damn lies, and statistics? :D

kora_viridian said:
The main one I'm aware of is that FurAffinity revised their upload policy around mid-May 2023 to classify more characters as underage and hence banned on FA. There is a thread here about it, as well as artwork here about it.

Thank you. This seems to be a recurring thing every handful of years, FA driving users away onto InkBunny with these particular policies. Well, mainly InkBunny.

Yeah, I knew the tea was worth it for this forum thread.

*excuse me for not telling anything useful.
I'm totally a begginer here