Now before I get started let me just make it clear that I love this website, it's easily one of the best furry/pornography websites out there, if not the best (and yes I know, it's technically an archive but come on, we all know why we primarily come here). I don't know if this topic has been brought up in the forums before however even if it has I believe it's worth bringing up again. I may only be one voice in a million here but I know for a fact that I'm not alone in what I'm about to say, many others have agreed with me one way or another overtime and this suggests to me that there needs to be some change, so I'm gonna try my best to assist in that.

Let me make this perfectly clear, I intend no offence to anybody in particular with anything I say here. No users, no moderators, nobody. I'm speaking generally here with everything I bring up. With that said, in my genuine opinion I believe the rules of e621 are way, way too strict and harsh. No this isn't me just saying this because I've got a few records on my account, I'm saying this because of how many people have records on their accounts for mostly extremely trivial things. I've seen people get Neutral/Negative records for literally quoting memes which just so happen to sound "creepy" according to the site's rules and even though I can understand that sometimes moderators may not pick up on certain memes they're not exactly obscure ones, it's pretty obvious what these people are trying to get across.

However even if we exclude those examples, I and many others simply do not agree with the rules in their current state. Trust me when I say that I understand where the moderators are coming from when they explain why the rules are as they are, I get it! But let me explain why this logic is flawed. You see, one of the main reasons we visit sites like this one containing loads of pornography is because we wish to look at the art, right? Well another reason at least most of us come to places like this is to enjoy the comments because we expect them to be sexual and lewd, and when they are they can in fact greatly improve somebody's enjoyment of an image! This also applies to artists, at very least most artists either do not mind or actively enjoy these kinds of comments on their work because they expect them, it is porn after all. It may sound like a silly concept to some but trust me it's true. Why do you think so many people leave dirty comments on porn sites? What, because they don't like seeing 'em themselves? I highly doubt that. Hell, the amount of records which moderators give out to most users should surely be indicative of how many people would appreciate a change in the rules here, no? I've been told by some that there are a lot of people who genuinely find these comments "creepy" but to be perfectly honest with you, after my many years of experience on the internet I honestly do not see what they're talking about. I'm not calling anybody a liar here but I do feel like they're incorrect, at most I'll only see one or two people every now and then complaining about somebody behaving in a "creepy" manner and even then that's usually only if they're being legitimately creepy, not just sexual. The biggest point I want to make here however is the fact that if you create these rules to follow, you're inevitably going to create or attract certain "white knights" if you will that report everybody any chance they get and basically backseat moderate, even though that's also against the rules. Some people may take this as justification for the rules existing but you've got to understand that if these rules didn't exist in the first place then these people wouldn't be around and there would be far less people getting offended over "creepy" comments.

This leads me to my next point. Another reason why these rules should be changed is because commenting on posts at the moment just isn't as fun as it should be. Every time somebody posts a comment they've got to be very, very careful with what they say and how they say it because otherwise they could be warned or banned for a rule they didn't even mean to break, all they wanted to do was say something nice about an image. To live in fear of these rules and the moderators is surely not how things should be around here, right? Isn't the furry community meant to be one of the most understanding and accepting communities around? Plus just in general it's not fun to constantly fear the rules of the website, rules should be there to stop obviously harmful things such as sharing people's personal information, sending links to illegal stuff and so on. As it stands with every word that's typed into that comment box at the bottom of a page, I for example have to read through it many times over before posting it and even after posting it I edit it sometimes nowadays thanks to the amount of unfair records I've received just to make absolutely certain I don't get another one. This isn't right.

Here's one more point that doesn't make much sense to me. Despite how many strict rules there are in relation to comments (and the forums as well I believe) they don't seem to apply to post descriptions or profile "About" sections. Now this is NOT me suggesting that the rules should start applying to these things as well but I just don't understand it. As far as I can tell you can be as sexual and "creepy" as you want in a post's description or your own description but if you even slightly try to be in a comment on a post, no no no, now that's crossing the line. Surely I'm not the only one who feels this way, right? Does this make no sense to anybody else?

So, what am I actually arguing to be changed here? Well, primarily the "Creepy Comments" rule in its entirety for one. That rule is pretty much exclusive to this site alone and it's abundantly clear at this point how many people either don't care for it or actively dislike it. Any records given out with quotes such as "We don't need to know that, please keep it to yourself." and "Stop being creepy." and anything else along those lines are unnecessary. This rule in my opinion should be entirely removed. Second of all, the "Role-Play" rule. Even though I can understand this rule a bit more than the first one, I still don't think it's necessary. The stated argument is that it would be inherently self-destructive and would take away from the website, which I personally think is a bit unfair to say and assumes the worst of people but if we ignore that, the rule's description also states that minor examples of role-play, namely humorous or otherwise non-sexual types are fine, however this seems to be a false statement because I've seen people getting records for ANY type of role-play, even if they are just being humorous. I don't know why this is but it's quite clear that this rule is too vague for its own good, plus again most people come here expecting to see some people role-playing in the comments, it adds to the posts and doesn't take away, people ENJOY these comments! This rule in my opinion should be entirely removed or at least heavily altered. Finally, this unspoken rule of "Thou Shalt Not Speak Against The Rules". This isn't something mentioned in the rules page but if you say something negative about the rules of this site you shall receive a record such as the Neutral one I've got, second from the top in my User Feedback page. Now this is beyond wrong but I don't think I need to explain this one very much, it's tyrannical. I have no idea why this is a thing but we should always have the right to disagree with the rules of something if we so wish. The argument of "If you don't like the rules here then just leave." is honestly a bit short-sighted. I'm not trying to be rude here but do you really think I'd be complaining about the rules here if I didn't care about this place? As I mentioned at the start of this post e621 is one of the best websites of its type for all sorts of reasons, however sadly it is being heavily bogged down by its overly strict rules so this is why I bring them up. Yes of course I can just leave but I would've done so already if I wanted to. I've seen plenty of people with records like that one in their User Feedback page and it's just wrong, it goes against freedom of speech. This should be stopped immediately if you ask me.

Now it's time for the conclusion. Remember, I am not calling anybody out in specific with anything I've said here today, nor do I think that anybody here is a bad person. The intention of this post is to make it clear to the moderators and users alike that perhaps the rules of e621 could do with some work. As I've mentioned throughout this post I know for a fact that many others feel the same way or at least similarly here so please, if you at all share my thoughts in any way whatsoever, make yourself heard. Make it clear that there are a lot of us who would like to see this website improved. I have no doubt that there are even more people who feel this way than even I've encountered but due to the extremely harsh nature of the rules as I mentioned before they feel scared and basically don't risk getting themselves banned for simply saying certain things about the rules. Moderators, surely you don't want your loyal users to feel this way, right? I'm not exaggerating in the least either, I and many others feel genuinely fearful whenever we post a comment when really it should just be a way for us to happily and freely express what we want to say, just like any other comment section on any other site. If nothing else the intense rules of this website make the amount of different types of comments you can post very limited indeed, I mean that's just boring to be honest, just as an extra point. You can't be very original or creative with the amount of things you can't say.

I have no idea whether my voice will be heard or not nor do I know how many people will listen but all I can do is my best to try and get some justice for this website and all of its users and moderators. e621 has potential, a lot of potential, and most of that potential has been claimed but this is the one and only thing severely holding the site back right now and turning many potential users away. To all of the moderators out there, I hope you consider my words today. Thank you for reading everybody and if anybody else wishes to support my points further or perhaps throw some counterarguments my way then please feel free, this is a topic that could do with a lot more discussion after all.

Similar observations have been made countless times before. A significant proportion of e621 users want the "Creepy Comments" rule to be altered or even abolished. Another significant proportion wants things to stay just the way they are, since "creepy" comments get reported. The admins aren't out there hunting for comments that they don't like, they are merely answering reports by regular users like you and me. Sometimes, a report will be answered with "not that bad, no action taken". Which means that some people actually want the rule to be more strict. People who dislike it tend to be more vocal about it, so it's harder to notice the majority who thinks it's fine.

I personally don't care one way or another. I don't feel like writing comments at all, and I bother reporting only what I feel is actually harmful. I understand that other people think differently, and I believe that they are absolutely right to do so. However, the main reason we have that rule is not for me or you. Before it was implemented, artists used to request takedowns all the time over comments that made them uncomfortable being displayed under their art. In a gallery site like FA, the uploader can remove any comment that they don't like. Here, that is not an option. The existence of a rule obviously didn't stop everyone from sharing unsavory thoughts, but things used to be much worse.

Being able to archive more art with the consent of artists is a good enough end to justify the means in my opinion. The reason "creepy" things are allowed in descriptions and posts themselves is that they were put there by the artists themselves and therefore are unlikely to cause a headache. If we could get away with forgetting the rule while keeping the benefits, it would have already been done. The kind of contribution you can see in post #2094217 and post #44010 makes us lose content.

Last but not least, every user who created an account here agreed with the Terms of Service. It is your unalienable right to believe that the rule should be changed. This isn't 1984, after all. However, that doesn't mean anything with regards to how the site is run will change based on your input. In fact, it was made clear countless times before that the rules will not be altered regardless of how many complaints are received. Sorry, but that's just the way things are.

I am one that do not have records on my occount even when I participate in this Forum (mainly or exclusively on the Forum), and I sometimes write things that are not very common here... or so I think. However, I never (never) try to "probe" the patience of the Staff (Admins, or moderators) of this Forum, say, just for "the sake of it". That would be childish, and somehow, a treason, against the people that lend us this site for the possible (possible) entertainment, of any sort, that we could have.

I have a lot of years of experience in Internet forums and other communities ... and something that some people have difficulty to understand, is that altough anyone (hundred of thousends in this site) could create an account and therefore it is a "public" forum... there should no be mistake: The site is owned by private persons who build it, and pay for it. They created it "for a reason", and even if not formaly "with objectives". We should adjust, as guests of this site (that I believe that we are) to such objectives. I myself have no problem with that ... and I even will risk myself a little, in claiming that I do not sympathize much with Communism or Anarchism.

I may be wrong (which it could be understandable since, as a simple user of this site, I do not have "the whole picture") in saying that the main objective of this forum, is to have a ever more large and well tended database of furry art, well classified. To have a safe environment for artists (sensible people) to post, and to people of (I hope ALL) genders to be here.

I agree in part with the starter of the thread that to give more space to opinion, will reflect in more participation of users in comments ... but that could result also in more conflicts, disputes, complains and simply, problems, that the Admins here will have to solve.

A “firm rein” in the administration of Forums, is more a “European” tradition than “American”… I have noticed that in my decades of experience. But at the end, it should be judged from the results and the intended wellbeing of the site.

“How much to loose the rein?” I believe that people of experience in the staff will have more "the pulse of it". Maybe they could discuss the thing within themselves.

I do not say it "should be done", or that "could be done". I just wanted to present my point of view.

gattonero2001 said:
Similar observations have been made countless times before. A significant proportion of e621 users want the "Creepy Comments" rule to be altered or even abolished. Another significant proportion wants things to stay just the way they are, since "creepy" comments get reported. The admins aren't out there hunting for comments that they don't like, they are merely answering reports by regular users like you and me. Sometimes, a report will be answered with "not that bad, no action taken". Which means that some people actually want the rule to be more strict. People who dislike it tend to be more vocal about it, so it's harder to notice the majority who thinks it's fine.

I personally don't care one way or another. I don't feel like writing comments at all, and I bother reporting only what I feel is actually harmful. I understand that other people think differently, and I believe that they are absolutely right to do so. However, the main reason we have that rule is not for me or you. Before it was implemented, artists used to request takedowns all the time over comments that made them uncomfortable being displayed under their art. In a gallery site like FA, the uploader can remove any comment that they don't like. Here, that is not an option. The existence of a rule obviously didn't stop everyone from sharing unsavory thoughts, but things used to be much worse.

Being able to archive more art with the consent of artists is a good enough end to justify the means in my opinion. The reason "creepy" things are allowed in descriptions and posts themselves is that they were put there by the artists themselves and therefore are unlikely to cause a headache. If we could get away with forgetting the rule while keeping the benefits, it would have already been done. The kind of contribution you can see in post #2094217 and post #44010 makes us lose content.

Last but not least, every user who created an account here agreed with the Terms of Service. It is your unalienable right to believe that the rule should be changed. This isn't 1984, after all. However, that doesn't mean anything with regards to how the site is run will change based on your input. In fact, it was made clear countless times before that the rules will not be altered regardless of how many complaints are received. Sorry, but that's just the way things are.

I don't see why this site should favour the side of the community which support these rules over us, especially since they're the smaller side of the community but I digress. Why are their opinions more valuable than ours? And sure, I bet there were a few artists who requested takedowns based on comments but I highly doubt it was that many, you know what you're getting into when you draw porn. You say this isn't 1984 but it's actually not too far off if you ask me, especially when the moderators warn or ban people for speaking out against the rules. The rules here are particularly tyrannical so I'm doing my best to hopefully help in getting them changed, even if you think it's a fruitless effort. When it comes to the side of the community that supports these rules by the way, my point still stands about them either not existing or at very least not being as prominent or pushy if it weren't for the rules existing in the first place. For example, somebody just reported my forum post under the reason of "Dramabait" even though it very clearly isn't. This is almost certainly an example of one of these people, somebody who wouldn't be here if it weren't for the rules which support their backseat moderation behaviour, which for some reason doesn't get punished.

Dude, get over yourself. As pointed out above, this is a privately run site. Whining about “muh freedom of speech” or 1984 totalitarianism because you want to spam creepy comments all over and think that looks like a violation of basic rights just makes you look stupid. As one of the comments on your records says (why I am not surprised you have so many) “if you don’t like the rules, you can leave.” Sounds like good advice to me.

And you got reported for dramabait, because a 10,000 word diatribe about how the admins are awful Nazis for not allowing you to do what you want on their site is exactly that.

Did you really just write a whole middle-school essay to complain that you can't tell the world how horny cub snuff porn gets you? I think you need to look out of the window and look for some real "tyranny" and "injustice" to put that effort into.

I think I missed the chapter in 1984 when Big Brother sent Winston to Room 101 for writing a weird comment on a porn site.

jfrankparnell said:
Dude, get over yourself. As pointed out above, this is a privately run site. Whining about “muh freedom of speech” or 1984 totalitarianism because you want to spam creepy comments all over and think that looks like a violation of basic rights just makes you look stupid. As one of the comments on your records says (why I am not surprised you have so many) “if you don’t like the rules, you can leave.” Sounds like good advice to me.

And you got reported for dramabair, because a 10,000 word diatribe about how the admins are awful Nazis for not allowing you to do what you want on their site is exactly that.

It's a shame that you clearly didn't read or take on board pretty much anything I said but hey you do you. I'm not calling the moderators Nazis by the way, nor am I verbally attacking anybody so please don't accuse me of that.

thefamilyfanatic said:
I don't see why this site should favour the side of the community which support these rules over us, especially since they're the smaller side of the community but I digress. Why are their opinions more valuable than ours?

Why do you think it's the smaller side? I'm just curious and trying to understand it.

Like I were at the other side, really fearful of commenting for what 2+ years and not understading some of the enforcements (some I still don't understand). But I realized that I've never even tried to TRULY understand these rules or the people behind them. I'm not saying the rules are perfect, I really think they should update the wording of some and giving more examples of not what's a reportable comment, but yeah trying to understand it made me compassionate and have a better grasp about the site, I'd say.

And sure, I bet there were a few artists who requested takedowns based on comments but I highly doubt it was that many, you know what you're getting into when you draw porn.

Just because someone produces NSFW content it doesn't mean they are open to sexual advances or these types of comments. And also even if it's "just" a "few" artists... that still is potential content, e621, an ART ARCHIVE, will be unable to archive, because someone feel the need to announce what they're doing with their genitals or what they want to do with the character.

You say this isn't 1984 but it's actually not too far off if you ask me, especially when the moderators warn or ban people for speaking out against the rules. The rules here are particularly tyrannical so I'm doing my best to hopefully help in getting them changed, even if you think it's a fruitless effort. When it comes to the side of the community that supports these rules by the way, my point still stands about them either not existing or at very least not being as prominent or pushy if it weren't for the rules existing in the first place.

This site is 1984 as far as you think it is, it doesn't mean it is. And someone doesn't simply get banned or warned for speaking or discussing the rules. If I WOULD GUESS (If you are unsure, you should ask an admin) you got warned with a neutral, because you already had 3 other records about creepy comments AND you also got into the comments of TWO different posts in CONSECUTIVE days where there were some kind of discussion about that topic (creepy comments), that were in a way or another already "closed" (as in the drama had died).

• comment #5403286 The date of your comment 2020-12-27 14:22:11 while the last comment about that matter was comment #5349709 (2020-11-30 13:34:31, almost 1 month of difference between your comment and this) and the comment you replied to, Millcore's was 2 months old already (2020-10-08 02:11:04).
• comment #5404231 it's the same thing, reviving old drama. Your comment was posted in 2020-12-28 at 01:45:22 and the last comment of that drama was comment #5242920 (2020-10-06 20:28:25) or comment "Fair point, the artists..." (some reason when I link it here, Cloudflare blocks me from sending the text...) (2020-09-26 08:24:57) which were already 3 months old when you posted yours.

For example, somebody just reported my forum post under the reason of "Dramabait" even though it very clearly isn't. This is almost certainly an example of one of these people, somebody who wouldn't be here if it weren't for the rules which support their backseat moderation behaviour, which for some reason doesn't get punished.

For me your topic doesn't seen dramabait, but I can understand the sentiment when people see these topics which are pretty common and it's even more common to have a OP that throws a tantrum. Just wait and see what happens, reports are there to just make the admins notice something, it doesn't mean they'll necessary take action against it.

I agree tbh, literally the MODS act like robots from time to time.
I can understand where they're coming from. It's because of them I can
enjoy my time here. I go on Derpibooru for MLP from time to time
and I always think

"GOD DAMN this place is so trash, why are there low-quality
images here, why are there shitty memes here, why are anonymous users allowed to upload and post comments?
Do MODS on Derpibooru CARE AT ALL???"

So I feel the MODS here do a good job in moderation, but sometimes it's TOO MUCH OF A GOOD JOB
To the point that some things get flagged for being minor cases, specifically, I want to point out the comedians in the comment section.
You talk about lewd comments and stuff, some are pretty docile but creepy comments should be punished.

MODS NEED to have more awareness in telling the difference between a comedian trying to be funny (and sometimes failing at it)
to those who are genuinely making the image unenjoyable by saying something weird.

I once got a "Creepy Comment" flag for quoting the Holloween jingle "Trick or Treat, Smell My Feet" on a FOOT FOCUS image...MODS need more transparency
I also remember getting flagged in the past for saying a joke but it was flagged as RP.

Comedians in the chat such as Binagon (the guy with the Charizard Pic) always run into such problems.
Millcore of all the HAWKS on this site does a damn well good job to help users experience the site.

But she lacks a funny bone... *beep beep boop*

thefamilyfanatic said:
It's a shame that you clearly didn't read or take on board pretty much anything I said but hey you do you. I'm not calling the moderators Nazis by the way, nor am I verbally attacking anybody so please don't accuse me of that.

Yeah, I read it, sounds like a bunch of childish whinging because you aren't getting your way. The Nazi thing may have been hyperbole, but ranting about tyranny and 1984, you might as well have been. When I read stuff like "I don't see why this site should favour the side of the community which support these rules over us, especially since they're the smaller side of the community," something said without any evidence other than your opinion, yeah that sounds like you are verbally attacking.

it doesn't matter; no matter what anyone says, you will be the victim or the brave warrior fighting against injustice, when really you are someone who makes comments like "Just SO much delicious child murder" and think it's OK. I don't care if this is a porn site; I don't want to see shit like that posted here, and I am not in the minority, no matter what you think. I don't want to see this site devolve into the disaster that Rule 34 XXX is with their comments. And for the record, I have a couple neutrals for creepy comments, too. I just learned that not everyone wants to read stuff like that, and toned it down. And I do agree with you to some extent on the meme quotes shouldn't be flagged for creepiness. Your attitude though is all "me, me, me" in the guise of JUSTICE, and it isn't going to fly, no matter how many outraged words you write here. I;ve said my piece, and that's that. Enjoy flailing away at your imaginary windmill.

closetpossum said:
I agree tbh, literally the MODS act like robots from time to time.
I can understand where they're coming from. It's because of them I can
enjoy my time here. I go on Derpibooru for MLP from time to time
and I always think So I feel the MODS here do a good job in moderation, but sometimes it's TOO MUCH OF A GOOD JOB
To the point that some things get flagged for being minor cases, specifically, I want to point out the comedians in the comment section.
You talk about lewd comments and stuff, some are pretty docile but creepy comments should be punished.

MODS NEED to have more awareness in telling the difference between a comedian trying to be funny (and sometimes failing at it)
to those who are genuinely making the image unenjoyable by saying something weird.

I once got a "Creepy Comment" flag for quoting the Holloween jingle "Trick or Treat, Smell My Feet" on a FOOT FOCUS image...MODS need more transparency
I also remember getting flagged in the past for saying a joke but it was flagged as RP.

Comedians in the chat such as Binagon (the guy with the Charizard Pic) always run into such problems.
Millcore of all the HAWKS on this site does a damn well good job to help users experience the site.

But she lacks a funny bone... *beep beep boop*

If I wasn't clear enough about it I do respect the moderators and all of the hard work they put into this site, just like you. I do of course agree with a lot of what you say and when it comes to lewd comments without a humorous purpose yes of course they can be actually creepy, as I pointed out in my initial post but 90% of the time they're not, they are indeed quite minor and not deserving of the punishment the users get for them. Most of the time they're literally just stating the most obvious things, stuff which we're all thinking anyway when looking at certain images and I don't know about you but I don't think that's worthy of a warning/ban. Either way yes jokes and funny comments seem to get hit way too hard a lot of the time, I don't know why the mods can't pick up on them at this point but what can you do, apart from changing the rules of course.

jfrankparnell said:
Yeah, I read it, sounds like a bunch of childish whinging because you aren't getting your way. The Nazi thing may have been hyperbole, but ranting about tyranny and 1984, you might as well have been. When I read stuff like "I don't see why this site should favour the side of the community which support these rules over us, especially since they're the smaller side of the community," something said without any evidence other than your opinion, yeah that sounds like you are verbally attacking.

it doesn't matter; no matter what anyone says, you will be the victim or the brave warrior fighting against injustice, when really you are someone who makes comments like "Just SO much delicious child murder" and think it's OK. I don't care if this is a porn site; I don't want to see shit like that posted here, and I am not in the minority, no matter what you think. I don't want to see this site devolve into the disaster that Rule 34 XXX is with their comments. And for the record, I have a couple neutrals for creepy comments, too. I just learned that not everyone wants to read stuff like that, and toned it down. And I do agree with you to some extent on the meme quotes shouldn't be flagged for creepiness. Your attitude though is all "me, me, me" in the guise of JUSTICE, and it isn't going to fly, no matter how many outraged words you write here. I;ve said my piece, and that's that. Enjoy flailing away at your imaginary windmill.

For the record, you're being far more rude to me than I have been to anybody here. All I'm looking for is a civil debate, not this. It's clear that talking to you is not going to get anywhere so I shall stop here as well. Also I'm speaking for everybody who shares my views, not just myself, which is as stated a significant portion of the community at the very least, enough to consider us and what we have to say.

jfrankparnell said:
Yeah, I read it, sounds like a bunch of childish whinging because you aren't getting your way. The Nazi thing may have been hyperbole, but ranting about tyranny and 1984, you might as well have been. When I read stuff like "I don't see why this site should favour the side of the community which support these rules over us, especially since they're the smaller side of the community," something said without any evidence other than your opinion, yeah that sounds like you are verbally attacking.

it doesn't matter; no matter what anyone says, you will be the victim or the brave warrior fighting against injustice, when really you are someone who makes comments like "Just SO much delicious child murder" and think it's OK. I don't care if this is a porn site; I don't want to see shit like that posted here, and I am not in the minority, no matter what you think. I don't want to see this site devolve into the disaster that Rule 34 XXX is with their comments. And for the record, I have a couple neutrals for creepy comments, too. I just learned that not everyone wants to read stuff like that, and toned it down. And I do agree with you to some extent on the meme quotes shouldn't be flagged for creepiness. Your attitude though is all "me, me, me" in the guise of JUSTICE, and it isn't going to fly, no matter how many outraged words you write here. I;ve said my piece, and that's that. Enjoy flailing away at your imaginary windmill.

Bro, what crawled up your knickers? Calm down.

sieghelm_lockayer said:
Why do you think it's the smaller side? I'm just curious and trying to understand it.

Like I were at the other side, really fearful of commenting for what 2+ years and not understading some of the enforcements (some I still don't understand). But I realized that I've never even tried to TRULY understand these rules or the people behind them. I'm not saying the rules are perfect, I really think they should update the wording of some and giving more examples of not what's a reportable comment, but yeah trying to understand it made me compassionate and have a better grasp about the site, I'd say.

Just because someone produces NSFW content it doesn't mean they are open to sexual advances or these types of comments. And also even if it's "just" a "few" artists... that still is potential content, e621, an ART ARCHIVE, will be unable to archive, because someone feel the need to announce what they're doing with their genitals or what they want to do with the character.

This site is 1984 as far as you think it is, it doesn't mean it is. And someone doesn't simply get banned or warned for speaking or discussing the rules. If I WOULD GUESS (If you are unsure, you should ask an admin) you got warned with a neutral, because you already had 3 other records about creepy comments AND you also got into the comments of TWO different posts in CONSECUTIVE days where there were some kind of discussion about that topic (creepy comments), that were in a way or another already "closed" (as in the drama had died).

• comment #5403286 The date of your comment 2020-12-27 14:22:11 while the last comment about that matter was comment #5349709 (2020-11-30 13:34:31, almost 1 month of difference between your comment and this) and the comment you replied to, Millcore's was 2 months old already (2020-10-08 02:11:04).
• comment #5404231 it's the same thing, reviving old drama. Your comment was posted in 2020-12-28 at 01:45:22 and the last comment of that drama was comment #5242920 (2020-10-06 20:28:25) or comment "Fair point, the artists..." (some reason when I link it here, Cloudflare blocks me from sending the text...) (2020-09-26 08:24:57) which were already 3 months old when you posted yours.

For me your topic doesn't seen dramabait, but I can understand the sentiment when people see these topics which are pretty common and it's even more common to have a OP that throws a tantrum. Just wait and see what happens, reports are there to just make the admins notice something, it doesn't mean they'll necessary take action against it.

Since you've been of my mindset once upon a time you've got to understand where I'm coming from here. I'm glad that you've managed to settle into the rules but sadly not all of us can do that because they're very harsh. No matter what you type you've always gotta be careful and double-check everything, that isn't the way it should be. I highly doubt the moderators want it to be like this either, if I had to guess the rules are probably as strict as they are because they basically overcompensated for a few cases they got of users and/or artists complaining about certain comments so now we've all got to suffer the pain. When it comes to the few artists which actually don't want to see this stuff in their comment sections I can respect that, however what about the artists who DO want to see such comments? Because those exist too and I'd personally argue there's more of them (+ indifferent artists) compared to the amount who don't wish to see it. This is my main point here, one side is clearly getting favoured over the other even though our views should be equal.

I base my statements about the people who support the strict rules at least partially on the amount of people who get records from the moderators compared to the amount who don't. In my experience most users I've seen here have at least one or two records for one reason or another, usually something extremely minor which really doesn't justify the record(s). I also base my statements on the amount of comments I see from people which would've resulted in punishment but didn't because the moderators I'm guessing didn't see them, or were just feeling particularly lenient when they did.

thefamilyfanatic said:
Since you've been of my mindset once upon a time you've got to understand where I'm coming from here. I'm glad that you've managed to settle into the rules but sadly not all of us can do that because they're very harsh.

That's unfortunate, but who knows? Maybe you're just not ready yet? Or in the right mindset yet? Particularly it just clicked in me, y'know? Perhaps it ought to click on you too, it's just not the right time.

No matter what you type you've always gotta be careful and double-check everything, that isn't the way it should be.

I don't feel like that anymore. When I have something to say, I just say. If it so happens that I get a warning, it won't be the end of the world and from what I've seen someone REALLY needs to try to get banned here. If you simply read your warnings it should be enough to help you understand what you should avoid, if it's not clear you can humbly ask the admin who handed your warning to help you understand what's wrong.

I highly doubt the moderators want it to be like this either, if I had to guess the rules are probably as strict as they are because they basically overcompensated for a few cases they got of users and/or artists complaining about certain comments so now we've all got to suffer the pain.

All this pain you (and other people) are feeling is because you want things to go your own way, you want it to fit your expectations. But quite flankly if it doesn't fit your, just step back, it wasn't for you and that's perfectly fine. That's was what I did... then I grown (I guess?), saw it with different lenses and it finally fitted, because I had no more expectations and I just humbly enjoyed (and still like) helping around here.

When it comes to the few artists which actually don't want to see this stuff in their comment sections I can respect that, however what about the artists who DO want to see such comments? Because those exist too and I'd personally argue there's more of them (+ indifferent artists) compared to the amount who don't wish to see it. This is my main point here, one side is clearly getting favoured over the other even though our views should be equal.

Artists that do want to see these kind of comments can do such on other websites and explicitly states they want it (really don't just assume every NSFW Content Creator is fine with this), in fact there's counteless of these websites. Why should e621 one of the few or only(?) websites where they don't need to worry about it, convert themselves to just another one of these websites?

thefamilyfanatic said:
I base my statements about the people who support the strict rules at least partially on the amount of people who get records from the moderators compared to the amount who don't. In my experience most users I've seen here have at least one or two records for one reason or another, usually something extremely minor which really doesn't justify the record(s). I also base my statements on the amount of comments I see from people which would've resulted in punishment but didn't because the moderators I'm guessing didn't see them, or were just feeling particularly lenient when they did.

1) "People are getting records due to minor infractions"
You consider them minor, but the rules say they can get a record for it. Their site, their rules. Also, there's a good reason for it as gattonero2001 already pointed out in the first reply:

gattonero2001 said:
However, the main reason we have that rule is not for me or you. Before it was implemented, artists used to request takedowns all the time over comments that made them uncomfortable being displayed under their art. In a gallery site like FA, the uploader can remove any comment that they don't like. Here, that is not an option. The existence of a rule obviously didn't stop everyone from sharing unsavory thoughts, but things used to be much worse.

And if you ask me, I'd much rather have strict commenting rules if it means more artists are willing to let their work be posted here. I come here for the art, not the comments.

2) "I see people making creepy comments all the time and they don't get a record for some reason"
Despite what you may expect, it seems the mods and admins here don't spend all their time obsessively combing the comments sections waiting to hand out records to naughty users. Frankly, they don't have time because what they're doing instead is responding to all these reports . The reason you see some comments slip under the radar is because no one reported them. Those who received negative records for their comments probably had their comment reported.

thefamilyfanatic said:
I'm glad that you've managed to settle into the rules but sadly not all of us can do that because they're very harsh. No matter what you type you've always gotta be careful and double-check everything, that isn't the way it should be.

Just don't comment then. It's that simple. Again, I consider accommodating the artists' whose work is being posted here more important than leeway in the comments. I don't want the rules to change for that reason.

thefamilyfanatic said:
I highly doubt the moderators want it to be like this either, if I had to guess the rules are probably as strict as they are because they basically overcompensated for a few cases they got of users and/or artists complaining about certain comments so now we've all got to suffer the pain.

You make a lot of assumptions. I see a lot of phrases like "I doubt" and "if I had to guess" in your phrasing. Speculation doesn't add any weight to your arguments.

Also, in your first post:

thefamilyfanatic said:
I've seen plenty of people with records like that one in their User Feedback page and it's just wrong, it goes against freedom of speech. This should be stopped immediately if you ask me.

I assume you're referring to the USA's First Amendment which states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." You'll notice there's nothing here preventing a private enterprise from creating rules limiting your expression. You can be kicked out of a store for screaming profanities, and you can be banned from this site for repeatedly posting creepy comments despite being given many warnings. That's how it works. "Freedom of speech" isn't some kind of magical shield you can hold up any time someone tells you to stop saying something.

I'm seeing a lot of people arguing their side by basically saying in essence "These are the rules, you must abide by them. If you can't abide by them, learn to. If you can't do that, adapt or leave."

This is exactly the problem I'm addressing. The whole purpose of my post here is to point out that to many, if not most of us the rules aren't fair and our side is not being heard or listened to while yours is. It's not a matter of simply not following them, it's a matter of wanting to follow them and following them because we have to but not supporting or enjoying the concepts behind them and therefore damaging our enjoyment of the website. I just wanted to make this clear because some people appear to be misunderstanding what the point of this thread is, for example I know that I could just stop posting comments as a whole if I wanted to guarantee I don't get banned but you can't realistically expect that from me or anybody else, it's kind of a silly thing to suggest. You've got to put yourself in our shoes here, I put myself in yours and I understand where you're coming from, but simply abiding by the rules because "they're the rules" without actually thinking about whether the rules are fair or not is foolish. I understand that this is ultimately their website and they can do what they want but they chose to host a community of people here and it is their responsibility to listen to the community and take their feedback on board, unless they wish to lose their users of course which is one of the main things I'm trying to help them avoid. I don't want this site to die but it very well might with rules like these. I'm trying to help EVERYBODY here, please understand this. I feel like most people aren't brave enough to even suggest all of these things I've elaborated on in full detail and that's not an insult by the way, I'm just explaining why I'm speaking on behalf of others as well as myself. I know that e621 obviously isn't the epitome of 1984 as well, please don't take any statements in relation to that too literally.

thefamilyfanatic said:
I'm seeing a lot of people arguing their side by basically saying in essence "These are the rules, you must abide by them. If you can't abide by them, learn to. If you can't do that, adapt or leave."

This is exactly the problem I'm addressing.

It's not a problem. That's just how it works. Being on e621.net is a privilege, not a right. There are rules and the page explaining them starts like this: "By accessing the "e621" website you agree to the following terms of service. If you do not agree to these terms, then please do not access e621.
The site reserves the right to change these terms at any time."

thefamilyfanatic said:
The whole purpose of my post here is to point out that to many, if not most of us the rules aren't fair and our side is not being heard or listened to while yours is. It's not a matter of simply not following them, it's a matter of wanting to follow them and following them because we have to but not supporting or enjoying the concepts behind them and therefore damaging our enjoyment of the website.

This once again completely ignores what the artists might want. People's hard work gets posted on e621 all the time and we should be grateful that so many talented artists permit their work to be posted here. As gattonero2001 pointed out:

gattonero2001 said:
In a gallery site like FA, the uploader can remove any comment that they don't like. Here, that is not an option.

The "no creepy comments" rule is there to serve the artists, the folks who create the content we're all here to look at. It costs you literally nothing to simply not leave a comment when you aren't sure if it will be seen as creepy or not. Meanwhile, artists put in hours of work to create the drawings and they have the right to request that their work not be posted here if they wish. Since many folks object to creepy comments on their works, this rule helps increase the likelihood that any given artist will be willing to allow their stuff to be posted here. That's being fair to the artist. Again, it costs you nothing to simply not leave a comment, so please don't act like this is some injustice towards you when artists are willing to allow their hard work to be posted here when they have the full right to ask that it be taken down, possibly because they don't like seeing a bunch of salacious comments under their work.

thefamilyfanatic said:
I just wanted to make this clear because some people appear to be misunderstanding what the point of this thread is, for example I know that I could just stop posting comments as a whole if I wanted to guarantee I don't get banned but you can't realistically expect that from me or anybody else, it's kind of a silly thing to suggest.

I really don't get why that's not a realistic expectation. Just don't comment. You have to go out of your way to leave a comment; just don't do that if you're not sure you can follow the rules.

thefamilyfanatic said:
You've got to put yourself in our shoes here, I put myself in yours and I understand where you're coming from, but simply abiding by the rules because "they're the rules" without actually thinking about whether the rules are fair or not is foolish. I understand that this is ultimately their website and they can do what they want but they chose to host a community of people here and it is their responsibility to listen to the community and take their feedback on board, unless they wish to lose their users of course which is one of the main things I'm trying to help them avoid.

They also want to avoid losing the permission of the artists to have their work posted here. This is what the "no creepy comments" rule is about. Maybe they'll lose some users over the rule, but if they rescind it and more artists start pulling their work, then they'll lose even more users.

thefamilyfanatic said:
I don't want this site to die but it very well might with rules like these.

I'm sure if there was evidence that the "no creepy comments" rule was going to kill the site they'd be reworking it. As it stands, I think the alternative is probably worse for the site's health.

thefamilyfanatic said:
...unless they wish to lose their users of course which is one of the main things I'm trying to help them avoid. I don't want this site to die but it very well might with rules like these.

I am pretty sure that the number of people who refuse to use this website because they can't comment whatever they like is much less than the number who would stop visiting if every post was swamped under distracting cringy comments, not to mention (as others have pointed out) that many artists would refuse to let their art appear here if the site was in that state.

Look, I'll try to say this as nicely as I can so I can help you, I'm not trying to insult you: from reading your wall of text and taking a browse through your comments, I can tell that you're probably "not neurotypical", to put it lightly. That's OK, I'm pretty sure that a significant number of people (if not the vast majority) who use this site sit somewhere on some spectrum, myself included. It may be hard to see things from a different frame of mind, but you need to try to understand that while the comments you leave may seem perfectly fine to yourself, to most people they are creepy and offputting. You seem to think that the majority of people are on your side, but from the responses here at least, it would appear otherwise.

Being able to tell everyone how much you get off to child murder is not a constitutional right.

If you cannot communicate without being creepy, you should stop commenting.
Both the artists and the community as a whole appreciate the fact that the comment section is not like that on rule34.xxx – folks like you are in the minority.

Freedom of speech only means you cannot by censored on a governmental level. You can still be punished by the government if you're use of speech admits to or supports criminal activities, and you can still be censored on a more local level.

jockjamdoorslam said:
I am pretty sure that the number of people who refuse to use this website because they can't comment whatever they like is much less than the number who would stop visiting if every post was swamped under distracting cringy comments, not to mention (as others have pointed out) that many artists would refuse to let their art appear here if the site was in that state.

Look, I'll try to say this as nicely as I can so I can help you, I'm not trying to insult you: from reading your wall of text and taking a browse through your comments, I can tell that you're probably "not neurotypical", to put it lightly. That's OK, I'm pretty sure that a significant number of people (if not the vast majority) who use this site sit somewhere on some spectrum, myself included. It may be hard to see things from a different frame of mind, but you need to try to understand that while the comments you leave may seem perfectly fine to yourself, to most people they are creepy and offputting. You seem to think that the majority of people are on your side, but from the responses here at least, it would appear otherwise.

I was honestly not expecting to be called autistic today yet here we are. Interesting. Thanks for the offer of your uh, help I guess, but I'm fine. Empathy is not a problem for me.

bitwolfy said:
Being able to tell everyone how much you get off to child murder is not a constitutional right.

If you cannot communicate without being creepy, you should stop commenting.
Both the artists and the community as a whole appreciate the fact that the comment section is not like that on rule34.xxx – folks like you are in the minority.

If there's anybody I was hoping wouldn't bring up specific comments of mine to make me look bad and instead focus on the general subject at hand it's an admin. That's quite surprising to be honest, and you didn't have to be so aggressive either. Clearly we're not that much of a minority considering how many people you warn and ban on a daily basis.

thefamilyfanatic said:
I'm seeing a lot of people arguing their side by basically saying in essence "These are the rules, you must abide by them. If you can't abide by them, learn to. If you can't do that, adapt or leave."

This is exactly the problem I'm addressing. The whole purpose of my post here is to point out that to many, if not most of us the rules aren't fair and our side is not being heard or listened to while yours is. It's not a matter of simply not following them, it's a matter of wanting to follow them and following them because we have to but not supporting or enjoying the concepts behind them and therefore damaging our enjoyment of the website. I just wanted to make this clear because some people appear to be misunderstanding what the point of this thread is, for example I know that I could just stop posting comments as a whole if I wanted to guarantee I don't get banned but you can't realistically expect that from me or anybody else, it's kind of a silly thing to suggest. You've got to put yourself in our shoes here, I put myself in yours and I understand where you're coming from, but simply abiding by the rules because "they're the rules" without actually thinking about whether the rules are fair or not is foolish. I understand that this is ultimately their website and they can do what they want but they chose to host a community of people here and it is their responsibility to listen to the community and take their feedback on board, unless they wish to lose their users of course which is one of the main things I'm trying to help them avoid. I don't want this site to die but it very well might with rules like these. I'm trying to help EVERYBODY here, please understand this. I feel like most people aren't brave enough to even suggest all of these things I've elaborated on in full detail and that's not an insult by the way, I'm just explaining why I'm speaking on behalf of others as well as myself. I know that e621 obviously isn't the epitome of 1984 as well, please don't take any statements in relation to that too literally.

I don't understand... If you put yourself on our shoes, then why are you still fighting it? I read my comments on this post to make sure if I missed something, but it doesn't seem the case? I'm confused.

Parroting what I ALREADY said with some new things into it:

• There's people that like these rules which offered something for artists and users that don't want the see other peoples fantasies and as I've said it's one if not the only website that offers this, you can choose from a VARIETY of sites to share your fantasies, use them! This site sadly ISN'T for YOU or ANYONE ELSE that wants to leave these comments, why is that so difficult to grasp?

• The only changes in the rules I would like to see, is better wording and more examples of what not to do, but I'm fine with either that, removing it or loosening it which are unlikely. I just repect the fact there's people content not having to deal with creeps.

• These rules were there for a long, long time and I haven't noticed much of a difference in the enforcement in my time here and still the community is thriving, growing exponentially. The site doesn't seem to be "dying" and even if it were or if it dies completely... Didn't it maintain its mission? Which it is/was to preserve Furry Art as long as it could? I don't see the problem here. It may be sad, but unfortunately or fortunately (I'm not saying this with lil intent, it depends how you see things) it happens.

I don't think they're worried about losing users from handling creepy comment reports. The vast majority of creepy comment people are not contributors. This is why sites like r34 and derpibooru are significantly lower quality, less well organised and less popular. Also if all the people who enjoy creepy comments leave the admins will need to deal with significantly less tickets so... win-win?

Either way, until there's a blacklist for comment text, I don't need to know how much someone wants to fuck Renamon's feet, whether they're joking or not. And it's not a minority of people that think this way; yes, the admins do handle a lot of creepy comments tickets, but have you seen how many users this site has vs how many tickets they handle?

thefamilyfanatic said:
Clearly we're not that much of a minority considering how many people you warn and ban on a daily basis.

A minority compared to what metric?

Let's talk about Chex.

I love cereal, dude. Chex are ok, but have you tried bran flakes mixed with raisins and roasted walnuts? When you mix your own, you can put in as much nuts and fruit as you want. Don't buy pre-roasted nuts, just put some cheap ones on a tray in your oven on 200 degrees F for like an hour. So easy, so delicious. Cereal gets me going in the morning.

I mean, to be clear, nothing wrong with chex. I just like bran flakes better. Breakfast of champions, dude.

Let's talk about Chex, baby!
Let's talk about cer-e-al
Let's talk about all the good ones
And the breakfasts that may be

Is Chex particularly sugary/sweet? I kinda swore off breakfast cereals a while ago, they taste good but they always make my teeth complain.

korbok said:
Let's talk about Chex, baby!
Let's talk about cer-e-al
Let's talk about all the good ones
And the breakfasts that may be

Beat me to it

bitwolfy said:
Being able to tell everyone how much you get off to child murder is not a constitutional right.

If you cannot communicate without being creepy, you should stop commenting.
Both the artists and the community as a whole appreciate the fact that the comment section is not like that on rule34.xxx – folks like you are in the minority.

ADMIN? When did that happen? You an Admin now?!

korbok said:
Let's talk about Chex, baby!
Let's talk about cer-e-al
Let's talk about all the good ones
And the breakfasts that may be

I was thinking of thinking of lyrics, but you put in the work gg