Topic: Mantrin Alias to Sogowan

After recently watching the movie Titan AE, no one mentioned the species of most of the aliens. However, during the credits, the species are indeed pointed out. Notable, Stith is listed as Sogowan as seen here:

https://i.imgur.com/HfADkBb.png

I embarked on a journey to try and find anything other than fan works that provide proof of the name "mantrin" being used anywhere and despite this, I found nothing. The movie lists her as Sogowan. The toys say nothing, the wikis provide no proof mantrin even exists. The closest I found was an unofficial description of a book referring to her as a mantrin.

Regardless, the movie, as in the source of the media she is from, lists her as Sogowan. This isn't listing her as a nationality as the other characters are listed as "Human", not "earthling", so it's not pointing to a place of origin.

If that is how the species is officially called in the movie then it would make sense. I dunno where the other name comes from.

valsion said:
If that is how the species is officially called in the movie then it would make sense. I dunno where the other name comes from.

I have scoured the net and found nothing. One extremely die hard fan produced a cheep "how to draw" book that called her a mantrin, but the legitimacy of it is dubious at best and shouldn't be taken as fact over the movie.

That would be like using the discarded tv series notes to re-name all the Land Before Time characters, when their names have been long established before that.

I have seen the movie as well and Stith's species is clearly named as "Sogowan". The word Mantrin seems to come from a third source and I think it makes more sense to refer to the characters species accordingly to the movie :)

daneasaur said:
I have scoured the net and found nothing. One extremely die hard fan produced a cheep "how to draw" book that called her a mantrin, but the legitimacy of it is dubious at best and shouldn't be taken as fact over the movie.

I can't find anything either, and that 'how to draw' book name change looks like something made up to circumvent copyright. +1 for unalias. ...or rather, just flip it^[1] so that the official name is the main tag.

^1. https://e621.net/tag_aliases/9370

genjar said:
I can't find anything either, and that 'how to draw' book name change looks like something made up to circumvent copyright. +1 for unalias. ...or rather, just flip it^[1] so that the official name is the main tag.

^1. https://e621.net/tag_aliases/9370

Aye, I'm mainly asking for it to be reversed so that instead Mantrin is redirected to Sogowan since it's the only species name with hard proof behind it.

Sogowan seems to be the official species name for Stith as stated in the movie credits. Is there any source of the Mantrin name? It is strange how I and many others have known Mantrin as Stith's species for so long, and yet it's a mystery where it came from. Mandela effect? It has been 20 years since the movie reliesed, however keeping both and making Mantrin the alias of Sogowan seems to make sense.

talwu said:
Sogowan seems to be the official species name for Stith as stated in the movie credits. Is there any source of the Mantrin name? It is strange how I and many others have known Mantrin as Stith's species for so long, and yet it's a mystery where it came from. Mandela effect? It has been 20 years since the movie reliesed, however keeping both and making Mantrin the alias of Sogowan seems to make sense.

It seems the only thing that anyone can cite as being a source is that how-to-draw book, which may or may not be some sort of bootleg of some sort.

It's POSSIBLE it was the name used in the novelization, but I've not been able to find it, and again, the movie, as in the source of the character herself, cites her species as Sogowan.

It would make the most sense to merely reverse the Aliasing and have Sogowan as the name that shows up with Mantrin redirecting to it.

This is a wishy-washy, vague-as-all-hell source, I know, but I think the term "Mantrin" actually originates from the novellization. Sogowan should definitely take priority here, but I don't think the term is pure fanon.

strikerman said:
This is a wishy-washy, vague-as-all-hell source, I know, but I think the term "Mantrin" actually originates from the novellization. Sogowan should definitely take priority here, but I don't think the term is pure fanon.

It might, I brought up that possibility.

However, as stated multiple times, the key source of any species name comes directly from the movie and lists Sogowan, which is what should be the priority name of the species.

Right, I said that too.

strikerman said:
Right, I said that too.

Aye, you did.

This seems to generally be a mass agreement to this shift. I hope a mod/admin sees this...

I need to try and dig through some of my old material, was really into Titan AE when it came out.
I was on several of the fan websites like crazyforstith and the mantrin lovers nirvana, there were a few others but I can't really remember them.

There was debate back then about what stith's official species was due to the fact that the movie listed her as "Sogowan" but the official press materials listed her as "mantrin". The consensus was that the movie still at the end was an earlier development and it was later changed. If I recall correctly the official website for the movie did have the bio page for stith as mantrin.

steelclaw said:
I need to try and dig through some of my old material, was really into Titan AE when it came out.
I was on several of the fan websites like crazyforstith and the mantrin lovers nirvana, there were a few others but I can't really remember them.

There was debate back then about what stith's official species was due to the fact that the movie listed her as "Sogowan" but the official press materials listed her as "mantrin". The consensus was that the movie still at the end was an earlier development and it was later changed. If I recall correctly the official website for the movie did have the bio page for stith as mantrin.

Interesting how none of those "official" press materials exist anymore, leaving us with the only hard evidence being the actual still from the movie...

Which should have been the basis in the first place, honestly since the movie, again, is in fact the product we know the species from.

daneasaur said:
Interesting how none of those "official" press materials exist anymore, leaving us with the only hard evidence being the actual still from the movie...

I tried to see if I could get the website through Wayback Machine but all I could see was an inoperable flash element and no site navigation.
The domain belongs to Sony now (for Will Smith's After Earth) but it looked like they'd already taken the site down beforehand.

daneasaur said:
Interesting how none of those "official" press materials exist anymore, leaving us with the only hard evidence being the actual still from the movie...

That's the problem. "Mantrin" stuck because it was under the bio page on the website, a website that has been defunct for well over a decade. You have to also remember that this film was a commercial failure, not much material was ever put out for it.

Another problem is that the fandom died off really quickly, every fan site that was out there is long gone so all of the previous debates over this are essentially lost.

I still have to get out my old computer that had my early furry stuff on it. I know that I have ALOT of Titan AE stuff saved on it, hopefully there's something still on there to help with this.

daneasaur said:
Which should have been the basis in the first place, honestly since the movie, again, is in fact the product we know the species from.

Which makes sense but there's a reason that stith's species has been listed as mantrin for about 20 years. Mantrin didn't materialize out of nowhere, however that's the way it appears at the moment...

steelclaw said:
every fan site that was out there is long gone so all of the previous debates over this are essentially lost.

Slipping off-topic but I feel like the incorporeal status of the internet encourages the deletion of "obsolete" media/information a bit too well.

magnuseffect said:
Slipping off-topic but I feel like the incorporeal status of the internet encourages the deletion of "obsolete" media/information a bit too well.

Hence the creation of communities like the Lost Media Wiki. As much as people talk about "if it's on the internet, it's there forever", a lot of stuff has very easily slipped through the cracks without people to collect it.

steelclaw said:
That's the problem. "Mantrin" stuck because it was under the bio page on the website, a website that has been defunct for well over a decade. You have to also remember that this film was a commercial failure, not much material was ever put out for it.

Another problem is that the fandom died off really quickly, every fan site that was out there is long gone so all of the previous debates over this are essentially lost.

I still have to get out my old computer that had my early furry stuff on it. I know that I have ALOT of Titan AE stuff saved on it, hopefully there's something still on there to help with this.

Which makes sense but there's a reason that stith's species has been listed as mantrin for about 20 years. Mantrin didn't materialize out of nowhere, however that's the way it appears at the moment...

Which is really odd, honestly. Even if it was a failure, the dedicated fans should have more material.

Still, I would like to point out that unless something is salvaged that says "Sogowan is a misprint/was never meant to be official", it's still the species noted in the actual film.

daneasaur said:
Still, I would like to point out that unless something is salvaged that says "Sogowan is a misprint/was never meant to be official", it's still the species noted in the actual film.

And if every element of the Redwall series beyond the first book was purged you would assume that dogs, horses, beavers, human-sized Catholic chapels, and Portugal are staples of the setting.

Please don't read this as a direct attack on your comments, I'm just kind of venting about how writing settings is nebulous as hell and major details change with the breeze, and often important details aren't set in stone until the second, third, fourth, etc. official instalment in a series that could just abruptly end at any point.
I have recently been reading Warriors (cats), after all.

magnuseffect said:
And if every element of the Redwall series beyond the first book was purged you would assume that dogs, horses, beavers, human-sized Catholic chapels, and Portugal are staples of the setting.

Please don't read this as a direct attack on your comments, I'm just kind of venting about how writing settings is nebulous as hell and major details change with the breeze, and often important details aren't set in stone until the second, third, fourth, etc. official instalment in a series that could just abruptly end at any point.
I have recently been reading Warriors (cats), after all.

No I get what you mean, it's quite frustrating.

Been digging through the old stuff, all references to stith's species as mantrin.

Here's one site that never made it past 2001 and has a list of the cast.
http://www8.ewebcity.com/rozwell/titan_cast.html

There's also Akima's story, which if I recall correctly does have stith written in the book as a mantrin.
I'm going to have to dig through some boxes to find out where it is.

If anybody has this site archived it will be critical to answering this question.
http://www.donbluth.com/titanae/index.htm

On a semi-related note, it's kind of depressing to go through all these websites that used to have so much on them and not have one single site still around.

it might be faster and easier to buy that book

strikerman said:
it might be faster and easier to buy that book

Well again, here is a question: why would the book take priority over the movie?

I still don't know of anything ever mentioning Mantrin was a correction from Sogowan, which is what we need; something that says that mantrin was the name they intended to use with Sogowan being an earlier name.

I mean, it's not unheard of. In Bionicle, the commoner people were called Tohunga for the first two years until there was a dispute of it being insulting to a specific tribe, so the name was changed to Matoran, but most earlier stuff you'd find still list them as Tohunga.

Same thing in MK 11, Geras originally was named Terminas and up until release, he was STILL being called Terminas by the developers, and he also is alphabetically placed low where the T listed names are in the achievements, though the final game has him as Geras.

So it's not unheard of, but we need something more substantial as proof.

steelclaw said:
The consensus was that the movie still at the end was an earlier development and it was later changed.

Sounds plausible. Mantrin is a relatively common name around the world (especially in India), so it might've got changed to something more unique after the initial draft.

I don't see this as a big deal, but would still support flipping the alias. It's better to use the name from main source (the movie), instead of the one from secondary material.

genjar said:
Sounds plausible. Mantrin is a relatively common name around the world (especially in India), so it might've got changed to something more unique after the initial draft.

I don't see this as a big deal, but would still support flipping the alias. It's better to use the name from main source (the movie), instead of the one from secondary material.

Yes I agree. Mantrin I've actually heard used for, like, people and names. It is also similar to the language "Mandarin".

But yes, books and such are indeed secondary material at this point with the movie being the only hard info we have.

So... Anything?

No one can find anything mentioning "Mantrin" beyond some art books that are dubious in that caononical material?

I bring the books into question because a significant thing happened with Jurassic Park when it was released; almost ALL material said that the reason Jurassic Park failed was because a storm knocked all the power out and broke the fences. This went on even long after the film had been out and people knew otherwise (Nedry purposefully shut down the fences.)

So... we got nothing that says otherwise?

You could always try submitting a BUR for the unalias, and see where it goes.