Hmm, I gota question for the staff, and anyone who is priv or higher lvl.
If ive been seeing a trend of bad tagging by a User, should I mention their name cuz ive tried making a ticket about it so someone keeps an eye on it, but Its 1 type of character that they cause issues with, and sometimes its right sometimes its wrong.
Problem is whenni go to fix it, I get shit on by users who think game lore/outside info trumps all. Thus starting very frustrating tag wars, to which I usually post a comment about why I'm tagging it in such a way only to have it downvoted into oblivion. Truth hurts I guess.

Anyway its a sticky situation, one wrong move an I'll have a certain white wolf with red markings on my behind again.
the body type calls for one tag, while the "lore" calls for another, I may not be correct 100% of the time but lately ive been picking posts where I'm certain of the muscle/body structure before tagging, still... I could be wrong so I dono if I can call for other User help (husky, peekaboo, patchi, other janitors or mods, and of course admin) for help with iding gender type.
Doing so would require me to call out the posts uploader, since they uploaded a hanful of the type of character and still tag it incorrectly in cases, try to fix or mention this and expect resistance from the uploader and other users who haven't observed the twys,nwyk policy. :/

Ill also mention its tricky because of the body type. So the tickets fail almost as much as succeeding.

Don't watch this issue actively, but I'm pretty sure you're talking about that one Charr race, or whatever it is. And what gender it's supposed to be in an image.

You should work for Fox News as a reporter.

This aside, we should really get some sort of consensus on whether or not "Lore", whether game lore like the charr in this example or artist made like sergal, are expected to be "required knowledge" for twys (like real life animals) or not.

Yeah, its about the charr.
Honestly if it looks like a guy with a vag. I'm Gona tag it cuntboy, problem arises when users disagree because they have played guild wars.

Good example is one I commented on recently, the character in question had a definite male structure, triangular torso, pecs, skinny hips. But was a charr and had a vag.
I pointed the body structure out in the comment and promptly got downvoted and my tags reversed by a User who has done it 5 times each time ive had to come in behind and clean up again.

Lore honestly should be kept out of twys. I haven't ever read the lore only seen users vehemently argue that "its part of the species lore". It falls under the second half of the policy, nwyk.

I agree with ya Esme. Non real world knowledge is not required to tag what you see, and tagging using outside lore is a problem, especially with races like the Charr. Very few people outside of the preexisting fan base know that tid bit of lore.

Which is a shame, because the Charr are awesome :(

lore isn't twys
It is by definition a source of external information.

This, essentially, would not be a "lore" exception, it would be an exception for species tags.

I don't see how making an exception for a species lore is any different than making an exception for a character's backstory would be. External lore saying "this is really a female" is no different than external backstory saying "this is really half giraffe" even though it looks like a chihuahua. Under TWYS, it gets tagged chihuahua, not giraffe. We're tagging pictures, not lore or backstory or artistic intentions that didn't translate onto the paper. I think making exceptions for instances like this one would only break people's ability to search by body type.

The only practical exception I can see is if we make "female_charr" as a species tag and allow that alongside the "cuntboy" tag on the same images when applicable. Which would be unprecedented, but would enable both kinds of searchers to still find what they're looking for. Otherwise, I just don't see any other way to please both sides of this issue.

It's an another case of twys versus user convenience.

Being able to even tag them as Charr or Sergal also requires outside information, and the users who search for those are likely aware of the gender differences and wouldn't even think of searching for them by the twys ('wrong') genders.

So I propose that we allow such exceptions to twys, as long as the species has a proper wiki entry that clearly demonstrates the differences between the genders. If it's in the wiki, then it's not exactly outside information..

Genjar.... um...
What?

Osi means anything other than what's in the image. Right? The wiki is still osi.
there are a few char ive refused to get involved in, usually they have a trait that only females have (vag not being one as herms and cuntboys also have them) teats.
if the charr had more than one set of pecs, or more than one set of nipples I stay away and let whoever wants to tag as female do so as I can see things that say "ok, THIS ONE is female"

If people "need" to tag it as female so bad why not put it in the descriptions? (Maybe one day we can even combined tag search with a description term search.

The only other solution that doesn't change twys (because it was claimed twys wount change anymore after the name exception) is a small set of tags spesificly for the artist, in a seperate box, that can be searched independently of the site tags. Complicated I know.

The problem I see is, we almost always tag stuff like Pandaren, worgen, hobbit, charr, sergal and possibly a couple others.

The fact that we have a tag at all for them does mean we already allow a tiny bit of 3rd party knowledge into our tagging system.
What I'd like to see is just something where we try to define/find a couple good images (preferably official artwork) and then use that as a base for discussions like that.

As in, does it look like a female charr from official artwork? Female Charr.
Does it look like a male Pandaren from official artwork? Male Pandaren it is.

Would be a rather easy, and hopefully accepted, way to end most discussions in that direction, if we manage to come to a consensus and set the base up properly.

Of course, this is just my thinking, I do agree that we shouldn't allow this for everything, and that it needs to be very clearly defined, but the fact alone that we do have franchise specific species tags is kind of already in that direction.

Otherwise, better solutions (or an explanation why my idea would be horrible) are always welcome.

Esme_Belles said:
Osi means anything other than what's in the image. Right? The wiki is still osi.

Please define your non-standard abbreviations, this took me way too long to realize that it is a) an abbreviation and b) supposed to mean outside information.

NotMeNotYou said:
The problem I see is, we almost always tag stuff like Pandaren, worgen, hobbit, charr, sergal and possibly a couple others.

The fact that we have a tag at all for them does mean we already allow a tiny bit of 3rd party knowledge into our tagging system.
What I'd like to see is just something where we try to define/find a couple good images (preferably official artwork) and then use that as a base for discussions like that.

As in, does it look like a female charr from official artwork? Female Charr.
Does it look like a male Pandaren from official artwork? Male Pandaren it is.

Would be a rather easy, and hopefully accepted, way to end most discussions in that direction, if we manage to come to a consensus and set the base up properly.

Of course, this is just my thinking, I do agree that we shouldn't allow this for everything, and that it needs to be very clearly defined, but the fact alone that we do have franchise specific species tags is kind of already in that direction.

Otherwise, better solutions (or an explanation why my idea would be horrible) are always welcome.

Please define your non-standard abbreviations, this took me way too long to realize that it is a) an abbreviation and b) supposed to mean outside information.

We use a bit of knowledge to identify species, but we do that with everything.
No one knows what a fox is without some amount of outside knowledge.
What we don't, and shouldn't, do is allow information about that species to then also inform other tagging.
If we did that, we would tag herm hyenas as females with a large clit beacause that's what their species says they are.

Additionally, there is a huge problem with allowing this sort of thing.
What happens to a person who creates a charr cuntboy character?
All the charr fans will force him to tag it as female because "it looks like a canon female".
We can't tie gender to species, because people make non-canon gender choices for their characters constantly.