post #1166227 post #1180213 post #1168001
So, there's this game which was released recently called Hollow_knight. Above are three characters from the game, the protagonist, the final boss, and an ally. The lattermost one is named, but the first two are named simply after the species they all belong to: Hollow_knight.

I asked this morning on the IRC how to tag the second guy, and there was quite a bit of uncertainty. I ultimately settled on final_boss_(hollow_knight), because, despite being the final boss, he's not really an antagonist. Knotty asked me to make this thread to converse about these tags and if there is anything better to use for them, and yeah, I agree. Even if things are settled for now, maybe something will come along later that somebody is confused upon, or an update may draw questions to what we thought was the case.

final_boss_(hollow_knight) seems to make the most sense.

Yeah, just stick to final_boss_(hollow_knight). It seems to make the most sense as far as I'm concerned. A more interesting discussion is the first guy. At the moment he's tagged protagonist_(hollow_knight), whereas his name is just "The Hollow Knight". I don't know if there's a better tag, but protagonist seems a bit odd, given in the past we've tagged tags where the title of the copyright is the same as a character like shovel_knight_(character). By this standard, the hollow_knight_(character) tag seems better.

Also, to resolve something else: It's Quirrel, NOT Quirell. The typo is suprisingly common, so I'm posting it here to ensure that everyone is aware.

Other things of note:

• Cloth is female. This is stated in the Kickstarter/Humble Bundle preorder manual. Even though it is never said in-game, she's female. I won't post the relevant page out of respect to Team Cherry, but she is. In the same vein, in-lore her species is a cicada. Since this is unclear amongst most fans/artists (I've seen folks call Cloth a male) thought I'd state it here.
• Both Hollow Knight and Hornet get often tagged as ambiguous species or with the insect tag, despite there being no real difference as to how they are portrayed in art. Which one is more appropriate? Personally speaking, I'd tag Hornet with insect due to her horns (only if her eyes aren't really visible), whereas the Hollow Knight should remain as ambiguous species.
• While we're on the subject of species, how would we handle art involving the Monarch Wings?
• Secondly, tags need to be implied properly. In particular, the character tags need to be implicated to hollow_knight.

DiamondsDroog said:
Yeah, just stick to final_boss_(hollow_knight). It seems to make the most sense as far as I'm concerned. A more interesting discussion is the first guy. At the moment he's tagged protagonist_(hollow_knight), whereas his name is just "The Hollow Knight". I don't know if there's a better tag, but protagonist seems a bit odd, given in the past we've tagged tags where the title of the copyright is the same as a character like shovel_knight_(character). By this standard, the hollow_knight_(character) tag seems better.

The main character is given no name in-game, hence using "Protagonist" to refer to it. Nobody refers to it as "hollow knight" as a character, just things like "Wanderer," "Adventuerer," "Warrior," "Little One," etc. Shovel Knight, on the other hand, is actually named Shovel Knight and everybody knows him by this as his name.

Also, to resolve something else: It's Quirrel, NOT Quirell. The typo is suprisingly common, so I'm posting it here to ensure that everyone is aware.

Him and Tiso, I kept getting the names wrong. Kept says Quarrel and Tito.

• Cloth is female. This is stated in the Kickstarter/Humble Bundle preorder manual. Even though it is never said in-game, she's female. I won't post the relevant page out of respect to Team Cherry, but she is. In the same vein, in-lore her species is a cicada. Since this is unclear amongst most fans/artists (I've seen folks call Cloth a male) thought I'd state it here.

...How are people getting confused? This game is very much Animal Crossing in giving obviously masculine voices to males and feminine to females. A voice which other games may regard as androgynous is going to be feminine in this one. Cloth was obviously female based simply on her feminine voice.

• Both Hollow Knight and Hornet get often tagged as ambiguous species or with the insect tag, despite there being no real difference as to how they are portrayed in art. Which one is more appropriate? Personally speaking, I'd tag Hornet with insect due to her horns (only if her eyes aren't really visible), whereas the Hollow Knight should remain as ambiguous species.

It's a toss-up. Sometimes the horns make them look like some kind of beetle, but bugs aren't the most well known species. To me, it's a matter of if her horns go up or back. Back makes her look like a beetle, but up, not so much.

• While we're on the subject of species, how would we handle art involving the Monarch Wings?

butterfly_wings

• Secondly, tags need to be implied properly. In particular, the character tags need to be implicated to hollow_knight.

Unfortunately, implications can take some time.

Furrin_Gok said:
...How are people getting confused? This game is very much Animal Crossing in giving obviously masculine voices to males and feminine to females. A voice which other games may regard as androgynous is going to be feminine in this one. Cloth was obviously female based simply on her feminine voice.

There's little to indicate her gender in-game. The voice is ambiguous enough to not discern her gender (since it's just her grunting and it's only slightly feminine) and her sprite is gender-neutral. In fact, I was confused at first until I looked it up in the manual. In the same vein, Ze'mer's gender is also unclear due to his feminine looks, but the fact that the Traitor Lord is female means that Ze'mer must have been male at some point (or still is). Nevermind Ze'mer is female.

Also other Fun Fact not many people are aware of: The Mantis Lords are all female. This is said in the Traitor Lords journal entry. Which kinda makes sense as some species of mantises rip off the head of the male mantis after mating, meaning that the only type of mantis to survive for long enough to see the fall of Hallownest would be female as the males would eventually be killed.

Completely unrelated: Is it hip to fuck bees? Because there was a lot of early Vespa art and the stream has died down since. I wanna see more bee fucking.

DiamondsDroog said:
There's little to indicate her gender in-game. The voice is ambiguous enough to not discern her gender (since it's just her grunting and it's only slightly feminine) and her sprite is gender-neutral. In fact, I was confused at first until I looked it up in the manual. In the same vein, Ze'mer's gender is also unclear due to his feminine looks, but the fact that the Traitor Lord is female means that Ze'mer must have been male at some point (or still is). Nevermind Ze'mer is female.

Ze'mer I could understand, as she has no ingame voice, due to being a corpse.

Also other Fun Fact not many people are aware of: The Mantis Lords are all female. This is said in the Traitor Lords journal entry. Which kinda makes sense as some species of mantises rip off the head of the male mantis after mating, meaning that the only type of mantis to survive for long enough to see the fall of Hallownest would be female as the males would eventually be killed.

Among most species this happens with, it's actually because the female is either hungry (Dinner and a movie first, folks!) or startled.

Completely unrelated: Is it hip to fuck bees? Because there was a lot of early Vespa art and the stream has died down since. I wanna see more bee fucking.

Gittons commissioned all of those. Personally, I'm hoping to see Marissa, the butterfly "Mistress" at the Pleasure House.
I mean, "Pleasure" for the Hollownesters is very much a simplistic literal word: They enjoy hearing song, bathing in hotsprings, and eating delicious foods, so named the place that does all of that "Pleasure House," with Marissa being a singing mistress. That said, it's reason enough I'm surprised there's nothing of her yet

So um... what is our stance towards latchkeyskingdom's comics (these even got popular enough to be featured on Team Cherry's one month blog update). I'm not certain if they count as furry (since this games stance as furry characters is kinda shaky at best and is highly dependant on the artstyle), but I think they're both funny and interesting enough (and relevant) to be put here. I'm willing to upload them if accepted, but will restrict the uploads to once a day to prevent clogging the site.

DiamondsDroog said:
So um... what is our stance towards latchkeyskingdom's comics (these even got popular enough to be featured on Team Cherry's one month blog update). I'm not certain if they count as furry (since this games stance as furry characters is kinda shaky at best and is highly dependant on the artstyle), but I think they're both funny and interesting enough (and relevant) to be put here. I'm willing to upload them if accepted, but will restrict the uploads to once a day to prevent clogging the site.

Something I was wondering too. They're sort of "Filler strips" for the Latchkey Kingdom comic, but does that count as a webcomic?

Furrin_Gok said:
Something I was wondering too. They're sort of "Filler strips" for the Latchkey Kingdom comic, but does that count as a webcomic?

I use [Urban Dictionary's stance on webcomics](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Webcomics) for this:

1. Internet comics; Comics published on the internet.

2. Digital comic-strips featured online.

3. Online comedians, who feature funny skits and jokes.

I'd say these fillers count as a webcomic in their own right (they are different enough from latchkey kingdom itself, seem to follow a consistent universe). Just my 0.02$ on the matter. Given that it's considered rude to clog the site with the same type of content at once (over a limit of 5 iirc), if we post them at least we should limit it to once a day.

It's hosted on its own website with regular update schedule. Yep, that's a webcomic. And therefore not allowed beyond the first five pages.

Genjar said:
It's hosted on its own website with regular update schedule. Yep, that's a webcomic. And therefore not allowed beyond the first five pages.

Webcomics are allowed as long as not the entire comic is mirrored here, meaning only up to 5 consecutive pages.

Does the filler count as consecutive to itself, then?

Either way, make sure you get permission from the Latchkey artist, Droog.

Genjar said:
It's hosted on its own website with regular update schedule. Yep, that's a webcomic. And therefore not allowed beyond the first five pages.

I wouldn't be so sure about that Genjar. The Latchkey Kingdom comic might count as a webcomic (hell that isn't even up for debate), but the Hollow Knight filler comics aren't even on that website. They are on Latchkey's blog only as far as I know.

Furrin_Gok said:
Does the filler count as consecutive to itself, then?

Either way, make sure you get permission from the Latchkey artist, Droog.

I've send them an ask with a request for permission. Unfortunately I had to do it from my nsfw tumblr account (since I really don't want my e621 account linked to the rest of my online identity (along with the nsfw tumblr, since IRL friends know my 'main identity')), so it might take a while for them to respond.

First things first, apologies for double posting (really hate doing that and if it's against the rules I sincerely apologize), but I got a response from Latchkey.

They agree to it, as long as the comics are uploaded in their unaltered form (so no edits) and we properly source the art. I we can abide by that rule, but I'd like to know first whether the filler counts as a webcomic before I start haphazardly submitting the comics.

DiamondsDroog said:
First things first, apologies for double posting (really hate doing that and if it's against the rules I sincerely apologize)

Doubleposting is fine as long as you got a reason for it.

-
Made the hollow_knight_(species) tag because I got tired of using the ambiguous_species tag.

post #1185666
Anybody know what species Iselda is intended to be, or any of the other bugs for that matter? Somebody called her a mosquito, is that right?

The only ones I know for sure are:

• Maggots are maggots
• Stag is a Stag Beetle
• Cloth is a Cicada
• Willoh is a giraffe weevil

Furrin_Gok said:
post #1185666
Anybody know what species Iselda is intended to be, or any of the other bugs for that matter? Somebody called her a mosquito, is that right?

The only ones I know for sure are:

• Maggots are maggots
• Stag is a Stag Beetle
• Cloth is a Cicada
• Willoh is a giraffe weevil

Here are a couple more that I know of:

• Radiance: Moth-god.
• Seer: Moth.
• Most husks (minor mooks) seem to be beetles.
• Same with Quirrel.
• Dung Defender: Dung beetle.
• Herrah: Spider (duh.)
• Sly seems to be a cockroach.
• Watcher Knights: Their journal entry mentions they're the shed shells of Watcher Beetles, inhabited by infected flies.
• Most of the creatures in fog canyon: Jellyfish. Uumuu might have possible Metroid origins.

A couple more dubious characters:

• Hornet: Primary hollow_knight_(species), with possibly secondary spider abilities?
• Lurien: Has no discernible body aside from his mask and hair.
• Tiso: Generic insect, called a "warrior bug" by the devs and the backer who made him. Interesting bonus info on the kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/11662585/hollow-knight/posts/1573716 ).

DiamondsDroog said:

• Herrah: Spider (duh.)
• Sly seems to be a cockroach.

Herrah, while queen of the weavers, seemed rather longbodied for a spider. I suppose that's to be attributed to all of the "Hallownest Elite" bosses being tall, though (the three dreamers, the five knights, and the Hollow Knight itself).
And I was thinking Sly may have been a fly due to his eyes.

Lurien is a Cyclops. No, not the mythological one, but the arthropodal real-world one. As the name implies, they only have one eye, and do fit in with the size of a tiny bug, where a mask would essentially be the entirety of their body. Biggest size they can get is only half a centimeter.
What's more, Cyclops will form a "cloak" of slime to protect themselves. While TWYS standards would define that as hair, lorewise it'd be the slime it uses to protect itself. The pools of water all over the City of Tears would even be perfect for it to refresh itself, as cyclops thrive in sitting waters.