Would they actually have to be doing it or could things like:
Grinding, fingering, fondling etc. can be considered sex too?

Just a question I been meaning to ask since I've started to help out
with tags and stuff =)

I consider activities such as oral, penetration, grinding, fondling, fingering, handjob and to some degree kissing fitting for the sex tag if they are performed with two or more characters. But really, if you think they are having sex, that tag should be fine.

Images or animations depicting any kind of sexual activity between two or more characters of any description. This generally includes all kinds of penetration.

I guess, if it involves two or more characters, and includes use of the genitals and/or penetration, then yes.

Thanks a ton for the feedback!
Really needed a second opinion on this since stuff like this:

post #762114
post #889789

Was throwing me through a loop

The wiki page is pretty comprehensive.

However, you don't usually have to worry about tagging sex manually. Tag the specific act (vaginal_penetration, fellatio, whatever) and sex will be implied by that.

Notska said:
Thanks a ton for the feedback!
Really needed a second opinion on this since stuff like this:

post #762114
post #889789

Was throwing me through a loop

I would say they are having sex.

The way I see it, if there are two or more characters, and they are engaging in some sort of physical contact (or physical contact by proxy - such as a sex toy) which is able to, at least theoretically, result in an orgasm for at least one of them, then it's sex.

Note that the key here is that the physical contact should be enough to potentially result in an orgasm, so even though someone might get off from a deep kiss, that's a mental thing and not a physical thing.

Clawdragons said:

Hm, do you think we should differentiate between penetrative, and non-penetrative sex?

according to the sex wiki, we seem to already count sex and masturbation as different things

as a side-note, self_fuck includes penetration, and so do some forms of masturbation
--
roughly (hah.):

• sex
• penetrative sex
• non-penetrative sex
• frottage, tribadism etc?
• ???

• non-sex
• ??? [masturbation, self_fuck,]

titanmelon said:
Hm, do you think we should differentiate between penetrative, and non-penetrative sex?

Why? We already have penetration.

Clawdragons said:
The way I see it, if there are two or more characters, and they are engaging in some sort of physical contact (or physical contact by proxy - such as a sex toy) which is able to, at least theoretically, result in an orgasm for at least one of them, then it's sex.

Note that the key here is that the physical contact should be enough to potentially result in an orgasm, so even though someone might get off from a deep kiss, that's a mental thing and not a physical thing.

That's the best definition I've seen so far. Might be worth adding something like that to the wiki entry?

titanmelon said:
Hm, do you think we should differentiate between penetrative, and non-penetrative sex?

I'm not sure that's necessary really, for the reason Maxpizzle already stated.

Genjar said:
That's the best definition I've seen so far. Might be worth adding something like that to the wiki entry?

I appreciate that! Seriously, you put a smile on my face just now. I put a bit of thought into the question a while back, and that's the definition I've been using since. Glad that it's a good one.

Anyhoo, if you think it's a good idea, it seems like a useful thing to have on the wiki.

Clawdragons said:
I appreciate that! Seriously, you put a smile on my face just now. I put a bit of thought into the question a while back, and that's the definition I've been using since. Glad that it's a good one.

Anyhoo, if you think it's a good idea, it seems like a useful thing to have on the wiki.

I also give this a +1, but I am curious on how it would work with magic, for instance to hold a dildo while penetrating a partner.

Hmm, I wrote somewhat similar definition in forum #210782

sex is a specific form of sexual activity that involves two or more characters where one character is directly or indirectly interacting with genitals of the other character in a pleasing way.

Comparing to Clawdragons:

if there are two or more characters, and they are engaging in some sort of physical contact (or physical contact by proxy - such as a sex toy) which is able to, at least theoretically, result in an orgasm for at least one of them

The two differences are, he mentions orgasm, but I mention genitals. I would argue that orgasm isn't necessary for sex. The other difference is, that I mention "sexual activity", which is more broad than sex.

Siral_Exan said:
I also give this a +1, but I am curious on how it would work with magic, for instance to hold a dildo while penetrating a partner.

It still seems to me that would qualify as sex. The fundamental aspect, where one being is physically pleasuring another in a way that can lead to orgasm, is still there.

I suppose once you got into Rube Goldberg levels of complexity for the proxy between two characters, things might get hazy. I suppose the distinction is when control is lost between one character and the other.

Using movement magic on a dildo? Sex. Creating an autonomous dildo, and having that be used? Probably not, unless maybe the caster has it on a very short leash, but even then that's probably not right.

what the fuck is sex

stop leaking our RPs wow

Knotty_Curls said:
what the fuck is sex

Smashing your genitals together until it looks like rhubarb!

s-senpai

can you s-show me

Knotty_Curls said:
what the fuck is sex

it's a form of communication

Delian said:
it's a form of communication

He's not wrong

are we having sex right now

Knotty_Curls said:
are we having sex right now

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Knotty_Curls said:
are we having sex right now

We all live on Ratte's Dick, therefore we're having sex, I believe?

Sorrowless said:
I consider activities such as... grinding... fitting for the sex tag

looking_at_viewer

"Worf, is this your idea of sex?"

The dictionary defines sex as "Sexual interaction, usually involving vaginal and/or anal and/or oral penetration".

e621 doesn't have a different definition, so this might be a good one to go by.

Clawdragons said:
someone might get off from a deep kiss, that's a mental thing and not a physical thing.

Whether or not kissing is a psychological (i.e. mental) thing, it is definitely a physical thing, because it is a physical act that involves physical touching.

toboe said:
Whether or not kissing is a psychological (i.e. mental) thing, it is definitely a physical thing, because it is a physical act that involves physical touching.

But it's not the physical sensation itself that's causing an orgasm. There's a significant distinction there. I'm not saying that kissing isn't a physical act. I'm saying that if you get off from kissing, it's for psychological reasons, not physical ones.

toboe said:
The dictionary defines sex as "Sexual interaction, usually involving vaginal and/or anal and/or oral penetration".

e621 doesn't have a different definition, so this might be a good one to go by.

There are two problems with this definition. The first is that it's recursive. "Sex: sexual interaction" doesn't actually do anything to define what sex is, it just pushes the problem back a notch. The second problem is that while it gives examples, those examples are not necessary, nor sufficient. Tribadism is considered sex, even though there's no penetration involved. Auto-fellatio is not considered sex, even though there's oral penetration.

Delian said:
Hmm, I wrote somewhat similar definition in forum #210782

Comparing to Clawdragons:
The two differences are, he mentions orgasm, but I mention genitals. I would argue that orgasm isn't necessary for sex. The other difference is, that I mention "sexual activity", which is more broad than sex.

I only noticed this now. Sorry.

The problem with sexual activity is described above - it's a recursive definition. But beyond that, I don't think genitals are necessary. I think most would consider, for instance, pegging to be a form of sex, but it doesn't involve the genitals.

On that note, I have an implication to suggest.

Clawdragons said:
But it's not the physical sensation itself that's causing an orgasm. There's a significant distinction there. I'm not saying that kissing isn't a physical act. I'm saying that if you get off from kissing, it's for psychological reasons, not physical ones.

Speak for yourself.

Clawdragons said:
The problem with sexual activity is described above - it's a recursive definition.

It's not, if you consider sexual activity as anything with the purpose of arousal. Such as kissing, groping and ball_fondling.

Clawdragons said:
But beyond that, I don't think genitals are necessary.

It's more about how to describe this tag in a TWYS sense. Orgasm isn't something that you can usually see.

Clawdragons said:
I think most would consider, for instance, pegging to be a form of sex, but it doesn't involve the genitals.

I would consider pegging to be sex as well, so I suppose I should correct my definition a bit and say that genitals include anus.

But yeah, the definition of sex like this would be broad. So we would need to decide if we want to go for a broad, or narrow definition.

• The narrow definition would be: anal_penetration, vaginal_penetration or oral_penetration (2 characters sex toys bla bla)
• A wider definition would include non-penetrative sex, such as cunnilingus, frottage etc.
• The broadest, basically any genital stimulation with the purpose of arousal.

https://e621.net/wiki/show/imminent_penetration

'This tag has been aliased to imminent_sex'

are all forms of penetration considered to be sex?

^ I don't see how they can be.
eg post #639783 ... probably most of imminent_sex solo tentacles

(although that's mainly because of tentacles being a weird corner case. all of imminent_sex solo -tentacles seem to imply a second party)

Also masturbation is specifically mentioned on the sex page as not counting, and fingering is a kind of masturbation + can be a kind of penetration.

So I guess it's looking okay so far in terms of results -- aside from tentacles -- but is clearly not accurate.

The sex article needs 'all forms of penetration' changed to 'most forms of penetration', probably?

(as for whether tentacle solo really should be considered sex, I dunno. It seems like it's part of a definitional conflict that may be impossible to resolve in a fully sensible way)

Is post #1089941 sex?

unbirthing doesn't seem to imply sex, does that mean it's not always a sexual thing?
(similar to how vore doesn't always have to be sexual, but it's usually, if not always fetishized)

--------
@savageorange: Sounds good to me, we still need to sort out most of the exceptions(?) raised with tentacles and the like too, maybe in another topic somewhere

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3MyLt6l5n0