As most of you are aware the sites been undergoing a change in how the *_on_* tags are formated, now becoming */*.
This will of course take some getting used to however there is something i feel i need to discuss as it has been bugging me ever since i joined the site and subsequently became a target tagger (someone who stays primarily within a certain area of tagging, mines Genders).

Intersex, its redundant as we have cuntboy, herm, dickgirl and maleherm.

Adding any of the offshoots of this term automaticly adds Intersex as a tag. however over the years ive seen many, many users who simply tag Intersex and dont add what branch it pertains to, thus also blocking anyone looking for the post by using the offshoot instead of intersex while also allowing blacklisting to fail should someone have herm blocked but not intersex, ect.

Is this tag redundant? Should it be put into the "invalid_tag" catagory?
You thoughts, and please....keep it civil.

I thought intersex was a tag we needed in order to make it easy for people to avoid and blacklist "unreal" gender such as cuntboy/herm/maleherm etc.
So easy blacklisting, I guess (And searching)

It's not more redundant then other umbrella tags like fur, group_sex, scales etc.
They are also users who just add those tags instead more detailed ones, but it doesn't make them invalid.

Though it would be nice feature request that such umbrella tags could be tagged only indirectly by tagging more detailed tag and letting implication do the rest. (I think I suggested this long time ago, but I can be wrong.)

Esme_Belles said:

last time i posted a thread like this all chuluthu broke loose...

Hehe, that gave me a good chuckle. I'm gonna have to use that one some time.

About the topic, my first thought is "Eeeeehhhhhhh... But I LIKE using the intersex tag." I dunno, I find its a easy way to search for "non traditional genders" (or sex, whatever, I can never remember which one people want me to use. I'm talking about physical form here). I don't want to have to type them all in to be able to find them in a broad search, or subtract out male, female, ambiguous, and none genders every time either. So personally, I use it a lot, would hate to see it go, and don't understand why it might be breaking blacklists/searches.

That being said, you say it causes a problem when taggers lazily use it improperly. That makes sense. But wouldn't that be better handled as a (never ending) tagging project? If its being mistagged, we just need to educate on its proper use, and stay on top of the mistags. I didn't realize it was such a problem, and since its a tag dear to my heart, I'd be willing to put some time in on maintaining it.

It's not redundant, it's a broad tag that other tags fall under.

If it was redundant, that would mean that the feline tag is also redundant because we have tags for cat, tiger, panther, etc.

Esme_Belles said:
over the years ive seen many, many users who simply tag Intersex and dont add what branch it pertains to

I won't comment on intersex being redundant at this point, but I'll add this to my list of future projects.

Intersex is a useful tag because it refers to all characters that have characteristics of multiple sexes. Some people prefer cisgendered characters and want to blacklist everything else so they don't see it. Instead of blacklisting dickgirl, maleherm, herm, cuntboy, and all the other intersex gender tags, they can just do 'intersex' and get rid of all of that.

Catachan said:
Intersex is a useful tag because it refers to all characters that have characteristics of multiple sexes. Some people prefer cisgendered characters and want to blacklist everything else so they don't see it. Instead of blacklisting dickgirl, maleherm, herm, cuntboy, and all the other intersex gender tags, they can just do 'intersex' and get rid of all of that.

I agree with this

Esme_Belles said:
Adding any of the offshoots of this term automaticly adds Intersex as a tag. however over the years ive seen many, many users who simply tag Intersex and dont add what branch it pertains to, thus also blocking anyone looking for the post by using the offshoot instead of intersex while also allowing blacklisting to fail should someone have herm blocked but not intersex, ect.

Just tagging intersex and not tagging herm, cuntboy, etc. is a crime at the fault of the tagger not the tag.

you all have vaild points. however i must point out that alot of people, myself included. see Herm and the "branches" as more common. i didnt even know what 'intersex' meant untill i looked it up after starting to tag on e621, many years AFTER i learned of herms and cuntboys ect. the branches where and are what i still think of most cases of intersexed things. its more commonly to call them herm, cuntboy, dickgirl, ect. infact the first time i heard of this sorta thing was shemale, whcih we dont use here instead its dickgirl.

Esme_Belles said:
you all have vaild points. however i must point out that alot of people, myself included. see Herm and the "branches" as more common. i didnt even know what 'intersex' meant untill i looked it up after starting to tag on e621, many years AFTER i learned of herms and cuntboys ect. the branches where and are what i still think of most cases of intersexed things. its more commonly to call them herm, cuntboy, dickgirl, ect. infact the first time i heard of this sorta thing was shemale, whcih we dont use here instead its dickgirl.

Yes it's more common to call them herm, cuntboy, etc. than intersex, but you can see that those tags all suggest intersex, as in if you put in the tag herm, cuntboy, etc. on a post it will automatically tag that post intersex as well.

As some people here have pointed out the intersex tag is just nice to group all the genders that aren't male or female so that if people don't want to see them they can just blacklist intersex and not have to blacklist every single gender that isn't male or female.

Intersex is the best word to use.

"Hermaphrodite" means having both genitals, which would exclude cuntboys and dickgirls.

"Shemale" and "dickgirl" imply feminine body, but only male genitalia.

"Transgender" implies a character transitioning from one gender to another (traditional example: male to female) and isn't usually something that's taggable under TWYS.

"Intersex" is a catch-all term that can refer to any configuration of body and genitalia outside of the gender binary (male and female.)

Catachan said:

"Transgender" implies a character transitioning from one gender to another (traditional example: male to female) and isn't usually something that's taggable under TWYS.

"Transgender" characters are the bane of my tagging existence.

parasprite said:
"Transgender" characters are the bane of my tagging existence.

Maybe admins should be able to set particular tags as requiring admin/janitor confirmation, with a custom prompt message?
None of the current 4 transgender posts appear to include definitive evidence of transgenderness, but IMO it's not an invalid_tag
(eg. if Rain LGBT was furry and thus relevant to e621, there would definitely be strips that could be correctly tagged transgender, because a character is specifically talking about being transgender, and their appearance and behaviour is consistent with their talk.)

This would be appropriate for any tags where most taggings of it are incorrect but a few are valid. I'm sure there are others..

savageorange said:
Maybe admins should be able to set particular tags as requiring admin/janitor confirmation, with a custom prompt message?
None of the current 4 transgender posts appear to include definitive evidence of transgenderness, but IMO it's not an invalid_tag
(eg. if Rain LGBT was furry and thus relevant to e621, there would definitely be strips that could be correctly tagged transgender, because a character is specifically talking about being transgender, and their appearance and behaviour is consistent with their talk.)

This would be appropriate for any tags where most taggings of it are incorrect but a few are valid. I'm sure there are others..

Talking about being transgender doesn't warrant the tag, we don't tag based on dialog.
You pretty much have to show a character transitioning from one gender to another in the same post to get it.

Halite said:
Talking about being transgender doesn't warrant the tag, we don't tag based on dialog.
You pretty much have to show a character transitioning from one gender to another in the same post to get it.

gender_transformation, mtf, ftm (the latter two I've pretty much just ignored—I've been putting off doing the wiki for the same reason).

edit: whoops

Halite said:
Talking about being transgender doesn't warrant the tag, we don't tag based on dialog.
You pretty much have to show a character transitioning from one gender to another in the same post to get it.

..
That would be crossgender and gender_transformation (both of which actually refer to the sex of a character rather than the gender), not transgender. If you can't go by dialog/thoughts in combination with behaviour, then there is no valid way to tag transgender under TWYS at all. Which is fine, but if so, we should just alias it to invalid_tag.

savageorange said:
..
That would be crossgender and gender_transformation, not transgender. If you can't go by dialog in combination with behaviour, then there is no valid way to tag transgender at all.

That's the exact reason why transgender was aliased to invalid_tag.

savageorange said:
..
That would be crossgender and gender_transformation, not transgender. If you can't go by dialog in combination with behaviour, then there is no valid way to tag transgender at all.

This is pretty much why they are the bane of my tagging existence.

I thought crossgender was already aliased to invalid_tag, odd.

Granberia said:
That's the exact reason why transgender was aliased to invalid_tag.

That's awfully confusing for searching purposes, although I did suggest it in my revised post. See my earlier post where I searched transgender and got 4 results, with no warning that the actual search was turned into invalid_tag.

savageorange said:
That's awfully confusing for searching purposes, although I did suggest it in my revised post. See my earlier post where I searched transgender and got 4 results, with no warning that the actual search was turned into invalid_tag.

Okay, it could be confusing. It would probably be good idea to have some message that tag you search is aliased to something - though I have no idea how should it be implemented. (Maybe small pop-up on upper left corner of screen?)

(Edited because I'm moron and can't read.)

Granberia said:
Okay, it could be confusing. It would probably be good idea to have some message that tag you search is aliased to something - though I have no idea how should it be implemented. (Maybe small pop-up on upper left corner of screen?)

(Edited because I'm moron and can't read.)

If not anything else, I think having that for just invalid_tag would be a good idea.

As a side note: I never noticed that it still shows the non-aliased version of the wiki in the sidebar.