Aight, no hitting below the belts people. No insults or name calling. I just want good clean debates after all, this isn't a presidential debate.

cutiewolf9741 said:
Aight, no hitting below the belts people. No insults or name calling. I just want good clean debates after all, this isn't a presidential debate.

But I agree.

Bring the cake for the princess!

While I personally have no qualms with abortion as a practice, I feel using the Sun Princess as the spokesperson of your debate platform is poor choice and form, but you do you xD

Just why would you bring this topic to a site where people are trying to have a good time, relax or whatever? And why would you advocate pro choise
when you say stuff like "The only acceptable opinion"? I mean no offence. I agree with my body my choice argument. Up till the point where its
another person in your body. Again, no offence, let's just agree to disagree.

When I was fifteen, the girls and boys in the classroom debated about that, about abortion and the choice that women have with it.
At the end of that, I remember that I touch on the issue of the man's choice to choose whether or not he will be responsible for the pregnancy, since, if the woman can choose whether she will have her son or daughter, it is fair for the man to decide if he wants to be a father or not.
Well, we just ended up hearing screams from women forcing the man to be responsible, but they ignored the fact of an occasion where a man wants to be a father and the woman does not want to be a mother.
Therefore my teacher said that we men were right, if women are only going to choose at their convenience, it is fair that men do it the same.

tlk9000 said:
Finally, this image is TERRIBLE. Celestia would NOT agree or ever stand for being used as a poster child for this.
Clearly you do not under stand FiM and what it teaches.
She cares about all her subjects, born and unborn.

My man, you've posted 5 comments on an image of a cartoon fucking horse promoting abortion rights. She ain't real. Take a break from the computer.

lmao

*sigh*
Again and Again. Allways the same Issue I have with such messages.
I am not for useing ANY fictional Charakters for political messaging.
I can give a compromise in useing ones own OCs for political messaging. I still dont like that a ficitional Universe is made a Boat for political message. But hey. Art is free.

So I wonder. Why oh why are you doing that, other to piss people off?
You will not change any minds and I think you dont want to
You just want to shout your Opinion down, from your Canterlot Castle and be apllauded. And likewise, mark out the people who dont cheer for you. The contempt in Celestias face here, is telling me that.

Why not use your artistic talent to make a deeply thought provoking piece of art? Something that people engage themself in and at the end of the day, find themself understanding and maybe approving of it.

But I know.
Thats hard work, and you need to go back on makeing yourself feel good.
But dont worry. Most of your fans just use your pictures for sexual relief. So I guess that works out

tlk9000 said:
And you bothered to reply as well. lolz. right back at you.

That wasn't as good of an "own" as you think it is.

Speaking as an Englishman, royalty must be compleatly impartial when it comes to polital ideaology. Wether it be the correct choice or the 'BLATANTLY OBVIOUS' wrong one. Correct quote...just the wrong image. Good Day.

... can y'all just not?

throatgote said:
Maybe this was actually about Corona vaccines? But I doubt it. It was my body. I didn't have a choice. I was forced to get an untested rushed vaccine. I'm going to live with the serious and permanent damage it did to me for the rest of my life. Thanks guys! The mob really knows best! Btw. It's $4000 to go to the er. Plus $2400 imaging. Plus $500 for an ambulance for passing out. And that was the cost of just 1 of 4 trips to the er. And insurance won't cover a cent of it and you cannot take anyone to court because the hospitals and drug companies have all been given blanket immunity. Funny how that works. If you're wondering how I avoided bankruptcy, I got an attorney and went after the insurance on non vaccine related billing issues and settled out of court for all the bills. It was hell.

These kind of thinks are sadly a one way street today. I hate the political narritive these days so much

bitwolfy said:
... can y'all just not?

Hey. I try to be respectfull but I sadly cant convey a calm an measured tone in text. So please keep that in mind.

You allow politcal statements like that on your website and like with ANY political statement, it gets comments on it.
The cognitive disonance, trying to moralize and use ficitional characters for real world politics statements and movements is for many people to much to keep quiet anymore. And being constantly shut down out of political conversations or opinion spreading isnt helping either.
The world has shown more and more and more that the people in power only care about their power and not the people as a whole. But its all convinent if it fits the political wind direction of ones choosen path. Especialy if one can signal virtue and good morals.

Many people just want their fictional spaces, to be ironicly enough safe spaces. To flee the horrifing and double standarts of modern live, just to have some fun for a change.
And than you get plasterted again and again and again with one politicsl message. One politicsl direction. One thing that cpnstsntly forces itself into every part of day to dsy life, cus it cant stand being not validated by the world

Of course people can not just not.
For many people the boiling point of emotions is allready reached and more and more will be followed if we cant steer conversations of every party into a respectfull and more sane direction.
Cus in the end, what people really cant leave uncommented is, that these paragons of virtue. That draw horses fucking each other. Tell them, that their opinion is the only correct one and everyone else is completly false.

Life isnt black and white
Furry porn isnt automaticly good or bad
The world is a fucking mess and everything feels uprooted at the moment.

People can not just not...let them talk and sort things out in a respectfull and orderly manner.
Thats your job as admin and the job of your moderators if you want to be good ones

And in zhe end, i use an internet argument i get constantly told
'Just ignore it'
Its one of a thousend billions things that will be written today in the internet. It will sink into the mire of oblivion soon enough

This is only a problem that's happening in America.

for sure "meant just to incite drama" type posts.

Remember kids, bodily autonomy is sacrosanct and means no other person may decide over another person's body. If you don't like being forced to donate organs to save family members or strangers then it also follows that some cells in a uterus should not be allowed to force the owner of said uterus to share their organs with it so it can grow.

If you claim you're pro-life but don't push for legislation that people requiring life saving organ transplants do get one at any cost you might have double standards, it is exactly the same problem just with a real person instead.

Celesia canonically eats aborted fetuses

what the fuck is happening here

Fuck responsibly.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/K4meA274B8I

I feel sad it's so many dislike in this pic.

notmenotyou said:
Remember kids, bodily autonomy is sacrosanct and means no other person may decide over another person's body. If you don't like being forced to donate organs to save family members or strangers then it also follows that some cells in a uterus should not be allowed to force the owner of said uterus to share their organs with it so it can grow.

If you claim you're pro-life but don't push for legislation that people requiring life saving organ transplants do get one at any cost you might have double standards, it is exactly the same problem just with a real person instead.

Furry Jannie confused about organ transplants

golden-dragon said:
Furry Jannie confused about organ transplants

I'm confident you could explain it for everyone then

bdg said:
Fuck responsibly.

Yeah!!!.... force those girls to have baby's by their rapists!!! /s because that's really fucked up and this person's a moron.

feralsparky1 said:
Yeah!!!.... force those girls to have baby's by their rapists!!! /s because that's really fucked up and this person's a moron.

Raping someone is the opposite of fucking responsibly.

Ok look I'm sorry but I have to disagree with "your body your choice" statement because it's there's multiple ways to get rid of a child like adoption if people had enough common sense and wisdom to know that but I'm possibly offending people and I'm not sorry

jacob_blackard said:
Ok look I'm sorry but I have to disagree with "your body your choice" statement because it's there's multiple ways to get rid of a child like adoption if people had enough common sense and wisdom to know that but I'm possibly offending people and I'm not sorry

Children are never aborted, fetuses are. Less than 1% of abortions are in the third trimester where the fetus would be viable to survive outside of the womb (with a little help from machines), and those abortions only happen due to dangers to the woman or some suddenly diagnosed defect that would mean the child will not survive, or is even already dead. The vast majority of abortions happen before the second trimester where the fetus is little more than a random collection of cells.

And more importantly the uterus belongs to the woman, if we want to pretend that bodily autonomy matters the owner of said uterus should have the last word, not the government or anyone else.

throatgote said:
Maybe this was actually about Corona vaccines? But I doubt it. It was my body. I didn't have a choice. I was forced to get an untested rushed vaccine. I'm going to live with the serious and permanent damage it did to me for the rest of my life. Thanks guys! The mob really knows best! Btw. It's $4000 to go to the er. Plus $2400 imaging. Plus $500 for an ambulance for passing out. And that was the cost of just 1 of 4 trips to the er. And insurance won't cover a cent of it and you cannot take anyone to court because the hospitals and drug companies have all been given blanket immunity. Funny how that works. If you're wondering how I avoided bankruptcy, I got an attorney and went after the insurance on non vaccine related billing issues and settled out of court for all the bills. It was hell.

If pregnancy was contagious and could be spread to men, the Christofascists would make abortion mandatory.

Imagine downvoting this and admitting you're part of the problem.

tlk9000 said:
"My gun, my choice". I have a right to chose who and when i kill. Same logic. Just saying.

Touch grass

datblobguy said:
My man, you've posted 5 comments on an image of a cartoon fucking horse promoting abortion rights. She ain't real. Take a break from the computer.

He needs to touch grass.

LOL

tlk9000 said:
The major fallacy and flawed logic based on science with the statement "My body, My decision" is that, it is not your body that is in question, it is the tiny body of another living being that can not chose for itself.
The declared legal and scientific definition of when said life starts however, has been in debate since the dawn of time. Always argued and muddled with religious beliefs as well.

He made a sound logical argument based on reason and truth. But in the land of idiocracy they didn't hear a word of it and punished him for being intelligent and insightful.

throatgote said:
Maybe this was actually about Corona vaccines? But I doubt it. It was my body. I didn't have a choice. I was forced to get an untested rushed vaccine. I'm going to live with the serious and permanent damage it did to me for the rest of my life. Thanks guys! The mob really knows best! Btw. It's $4000 to go to the er. Plus $2400 imaging. Plus $500 for an ambulance for passing out. And that was the cost of just 1 of 4 trips to the er. And insurance won't cover a cent of it and you cannot take anyone to court because the hospitals and drug companies have all been given blanket immunity. Funny how that works. If you're wondering how I avoided bankruptcy, I got an attorney and went after the insurance on non vaccine related billing issues and settled out of court for all the bills. It was hell.

Absolutely not a serious comment but Im kinda amused I managed to "out freedom" you by being pro abortion and agreeing with you on the vaccine part. Free healthcare + acess to iuds = the good shit.

(Before I get mistaken for a conspiracy theorist: yes I know covid is real and I followed all the guidelines for staying home when sick/getting tested/masks/etc. I just didnt get the shot because development was much shorter than normal and there were so many people I know who were vaccinated but got it anyway. So had little faith in the "simulation" type vaccines and I knew my household could isolate plus weren't in contact with anyone vulnerable. Then when I eventually got covid it instantly infected a vaccinated household member anyway.)

My body my choice till we talking about birth control

n1god said:
When I was fifteen, the girls and boys in the classroom debated about that, about abortion and the choice that women have with it.
At the end of that, I remember that I touch on the issue of the man's choice to choose whether or not he will be responsible for the pregnancy, since, if the woman can choose whether she will have her son or daughter, it is fair for the man to decide if he wants to be a father or not.
Well, we just ended up hearing screams from women forcing the man to be responsible, but they ignored the fact of an occasion where a man wants to be a father and the woman does not want to be a mother.
Therefore my teacher said that we men were right, if women are only going to choose at their convenience, it is fair that men do it the same.

And then everyone clapped, and God himself descended from the heavens to lift you into eternity and announce your transformation into a holy saint.

jacob_blackard said:
Ok look I'm sorry but I have to disagree with "your body your choice" statement because it's there's multiple ways to get rid of a child like adoption if people had enough common sense and wisdom to know that but I'm possibly offending people and I'm not sorry

What if giving birth to the child kills you... can't give a baby up for adoption if your not alive to sign the papers.

Yikes

If you type more than three sentences in the comments you should seek professional help

tarsonis said:
If you type more than three sentences in the comments you should seek professional help

not really, this is a serious topic that needs to be discussed seriously. e621 is a furry image sharing site and isn't really the place to be having these debates. personally I think it would be better if people could drop the politics in the comments and just talk about the art itself. that being said I think that politically provocative art shouldn't be banned, just not talked about like this here.

not very based

junichi~masuda said:
not very based

But enough about you, what do you think about the artwork?

Bro y'all got this wrong xd
Have you tried being gay?

notmenotyou said:
Children are never aborted, fetuses are. Less than 1% of abortions are in the third trimester where the fetus would be viable to survive outside of the womb (with a little help from machines), and those abortions only happen due to dangers to the woman or some suddenly diagnosed defect that would mean the child will not survive, or is even already dead. The vast majority of abortions happen before the second trimester where the fetus is little more than a random collection of cells.

And more importantly the uterus belongs to the woman, if we want to pretend that bodily autonomy matters the owner of said uterus should have the last word, not the government or anyone else.

A fetus isn’t a random collection of cells not long after conception.

bnnu said:
A fetus isn’t a random collection of cells not long after conception.

It pretty much is compared to the woman. It takes until week 21 before the fetus has even the smallest chance of survival outside of the womb, and that's with every single medical tool and bit of knowledge we have. Before then it doesn't even have a working heart to pump its own blood well enough to keep the developing brain functioning.
It's a pretty weird ask to think that deserves more say about the uterus than the woman the uterus actually belongs to.

notmenotyou said:
It pretty much is compared to the woman. It takes until week 21 before the fetus has even the smallest chance of survival outside of the womb, and that's with every single medical tool and bit of knowledge we have. Before then it doesn't even have a working heart to pump its own blood well enough to keep the developing brain functioning.
It's a pretty weird ask to think that deserves more say about the uterus than the woman the uterus actually belongs to.

It’s not about wether it deserves a say, it’s about if it’s anyone’s right to kill any living thing just because it inconveniences them or they don’t like it.

bnnu said:
It’s not about wether it deserves a say, it’s about if it’s anyone’s right to kill any living thing just because it inconveniences them or they don’t like it.

Good news, neither embryo nor fetus are fully living beings by definition, as they can't sustain their own life without being tethered to the woman's body.

But even besides that all women deserve full and limitless authority over their own bodies, just like men have. And that means no other being has a right to decide over it without their express permission.

notmenotyou said:
Good news, neither embryo nor fetus are fully living beings by definition, as they can't sustain their own life without being tethered to the woman's body.

But even besides that all women deserve full and limitless authority over their own bodies, just like men have. And that means no other being has a right to decide over it without their express permission.

I call bullshit on a fetus not being living. We call bacteria fossils on Mars signs of life. Calling a fetus not life while calling bacteria on another planet life seems like an attempt to justify getting rid of the fetus rather than anything based in actual science. Also, unweaned babies still need a woman’s breast milk to survive, at least if we are going off what is one hundred percent natural. Sounds like they still can’t survive without the woman’s body still. And shit, if you want to stretch it, the average child isn’t capable to surviving on their own for years, which the parents have to use resources that could have gone to themselves to do.

bnnu said:
I call bullshit on a fetus not being living. We call bacteria fossils on Mars signs of life. Calling a fetus not life while calling bacteria on another planet life seems like an attempt to justify getting rid of the fetus rather than anything based in actual science. Also, unweaned babies still need a woman’s breast milk to survive, at least if we are going off what is one hundred percent natural. Sounds like they still can’t survive without the woman’s body still. And shit, if you want to stretch it, the average child isn’t capable to surviving on their own for years, which the parents have to use resources that could have gone to themselves to do.

You realize that fossils are, by definition, fossilized and thus not just dead-dead but actually had all organic material be replaced with minerals? A fossil is not a living thing, it's a memory of a living thing inside stone. And "signs of life" refers directly to there having been simple forms of life in the past.
Yes, bacteria a very simple form of life, though scientists are still debating whether they should actually be classified as life as most bacteria are little more than biological machines that "react" purely because of the mechanical interactions of their internal protein machines and external sensors.

And no, having to feed a baby through the mouth, via breast milk or formula, is not the same as requiring blood pumped directly into the bloodstream of the organism that contains all oxygen and nutrients harvested and processed by the mother first before it gets directly used up by the cells. The baby is actually digesting the milk itself, that isn't happening with a fetus at all as it's literally being kept alive like your own liver, spleen, or brain is.

notmenotyou said:
You realize that fossils are, by definition, fossilized and thus not just dead-dead but actually had all organic material be replaced with minerals? A fossil is not a living thing, it's a memory of a living thing inside stone. And "signs of life" refers directly to there having been simple forms of life in the past.
Yes, bacteria a very simple form of life, though scientists are still debating whether they should actually be classified as life as most bacteria are little more than biological machines that "react" purely because of the mechanical interactions of their internal protein machines and external sensors.

And no, having to feed a baby through the mouth, via breast milk or formula, is not the same as requiring blood pumped directly into the bloodstream of the organism that contains all oxygen and nutrients harvested and processed by the mother first before it gets directly used up by the cells. The baby is actually digesting the milk itself, that isn't happening with a fetus at all as it's literally being kept alive like your own liver, spleen, or brain is.

Yes, my point was about bacteria on another planet being considered life.
I mean most animals react based on those same things, just at a multicellular level.
And since you are comparing a fetus to an organ, fairly certain you aren’t allowed to remove an organ unless there is something very wrong with it. It’s just logical.

bnnu said:
Yes, my point was about bacteria on another planet being considered life.
I mean most animals react based on those same things, just at a multicellular level.
And since you are comparing a fetus to an organ, fairly certain you aren’t allowed to remove an organ unless there is something very wrong with it. It’s just logical.

Nope, you can pretty much remove any organ for any reason if you're willing to pay, the only limitation is that the team of surgeons isn't going to approve the procedure if it's ging to result in them getting a murder charge when it turns out you needed that organ to survive.
How else do you think organ donations work where people donate a kidney or bone marrow to someone else in need? Do you think they take only bad kidneys from living people, or that every donated kidney comes from a dead person?

Also, bacteria can still keep themselves alive as well as digest their own food, something a fetus can't until it's about the 25th week of pregnancy, and even then that has some mayor asterisks involved until about the 31st week.
And yeah, at the basic level all of our experiences are based around simple stimuli being a complex reaction of protein dances, but ours are a lot more complex and with more checks and balances in other places than they are in most simply bacteria. Would you describe your lived experience as a set of dominos falling? Because that's about as complex as it gets for large swathes of bacteria. Simple input, simple output, no conditionals, no deviations, no decision making, you push the first domino and the last one will fall, every time.

notmenotyou said:
Nope, you can pretty much remove any organ for any reason if you're willing to pay, the only limitation is that the team of surgeons isn't going to approve the procedure if it's ging to result in them getting a murder charge when it turns out you needed that organ to survive.
How else do you think organ donations work where people donate a kidney or bone marrow to someone else in need? Do you think they take only bad kidneys from living people, or that every donated kidney comes from a dead person?

Also, bacteria can still keep themselves alive as well as digest their own food, something a fetus can't until it's about the 25th week of pregnancy, and even then that has some mayor asterisks involved until about the 31st week.
And yeah, at the basic level all of our experiences are based around simple stimuli being a complex reaction of protein dances, but ours are a lot more complex and with more checks and balances in other places than they are in most simply bacteria. Would you describe your lived experience as a set of dominos falling? Because that's about as complex as it gets for large swathes of bacteria. Simple input, simple output, no conditionals, no deviations, no decision making, you push the first domino and the last one will fall, every time.

Pretty sure you need a good reason to remove an organ. You can’t remove one just because you don’t like it. Fairly certain that would get you recommended psychiatric treatment.

Multicellular implies more complexity. And I doubt bacteria can live outside of the environments they are suited for. Much like a fetus. And I’d also argue that a fetus is a little more complex than bacteria. Hence why it needs the womb. And I’d say more complex life is worth more consideration than bacteria. Especially when that complex life is the unborn state of a human. You know, what all of us on this website are?

bnnu said:
Pretty sure you need a good reason to remove an organ. You can’t remove one just because you don’t like it. Fairly certain that would get you recommended psychiatric treatment.

Multicellular implies more complexity. And I doubt bacteria can live outside of the environments they are suited for. Much like a fetus. And I’d also argue that a fetus is a little more complex than bacteria. Hence why it needs the womb. And I’d say more complex life is worth more consideration than bacteria. Especially when that complex life is the unborn state of a human. You know, what all of us on this website are?

Hysterectomies are one of the most popular surgeries to remove an organ that's perfectly healthy purely because the women doesn't want to risk getting pregnant, and that procedure requires zero psychological evaluations or anything else beyond consent. Unless it's a religious nation in which case consent of the husband (even if the woman is single) is required, because these people can't have women make their own choices.

And if complexity of cellular life is your only metric for whether something is worth keeping I'd just like to remind you that all plant life is more complex than human life, even if we have more mobility and opposable thumbs.
And no, if bacteria can keep itself alive, but a fetus needs to be pumped full of nutrients by an external entity to "survive", the bacteria is a lot more alive than the fetus.
Also the woman is still a lot more complex than the fetus, thus should take precedence by your own criteria, too.

notmenotyou said:
Hysterectomies are one of the most popular surgeries to remove an organ that's perfectly healthy purely because the women doesn't want to risk getting pregnant, and that procedure requires zero psychological evaluations or anything else beyond consent. Unless it's a religious nation in which case consent of the husband (even if the woman is single) is required, because these people can't have women make their own choices.

And if complexity of cellular life is your only metric for whether something is worth keeping I'd just like to remind you that all plant life is more complex than human life, even if we have more mobility and opposable thumbs.
And no, if bacteria can keep itself alive, but a fetus needs to be pumped full of nutrients by an external entity to "survive", the bacteria is a lot more alive than the fetus.
Also the woman is still a lot more complex than the fetus, thus should take precedence by your own criteria, too.

My talking about multicellular life being more important was an attempt to convince you, not a statement of my own beliefs. I personally would feel bad if I accidentally hurt a jellyfish, so a human fetus is out of the question, with the exception of dire circumstances, and even then I’d still feel horrible.

Also, I have had many women scream at me over the internet about getting hysterectomies, because they are harmful, because losing the uterus gets rid of the hormones it produces, which can cause things like osteoporosis.