So apparently there wasn't enough "variety" in these images and moderation took exception to them. As this is an ART ARCHIVE site I just figured archiving images here from artists was what was accepted, but not in this case.

With that being said I am done uploading and sharing here. There is just too much ambiguity in what one mod finds acceptable and another finds "annoying".

Have a great day e621

you are taking this a bit too personally

e621 isn't a archive, it's a normal art site.

A couple edits or variations is one thing (as is popularly seen with Asian artists in particular for some reason) but 20 is...excessive.

I would not be so quick to leave over something like this, though. You have a high upload limit (over 800, that's nothing to sneeze at) and you have a score of +1. I hope you reconsider your decision, but it is up to you.

SnoopyDerpy said:
e621 isn't a archive, it's a normal art site.

Yea because it totally isn't a place where lots of art is kept, therefore being an archive.

Yea...I don't see your point.

Ratte said:
A couple edits or variations is one thing (as is popularly seen with Asian artists in particular for some reason) but 20 is...excessive.

I would not be so quick to leave over something like this, though. You have a high upload limit (over 800, that's nothing to sneeze at) and you have a score of +1. I hope you reconsider your decision, but it is up to you.

Guess maybe that should be in the "Avoid Posting" or "Things not to post" on the help page. I certainly don't see anything like that listed there.

Honestly I just kind of give up. Really don't know why that image set provoked such vehemence and I thought I was doing right by pooling the images and parenting them, but it's just a big middle finger when they get deleted and my upload count takes the hit for it.

Pasiphaë said:
Guess maybe that should be in the "Avoid Posting" or "Things not to post" on the help page. I certainly don't see anything like that listed there.

Honestly I just kind of give up. Really don't know why that image set provoked such vehemence and I thought I was doing right by pooling the images and parenting them, but it's just a big middle finger when they get deleted and my upload count takes the hit for it.

Eight hundred and nine though, that is more than I would upload in an entire year pretty much.

If it's true what SnoopyDerpy said, then I have also been mistaken about the purpose of e621.net. I thought it was written that it was a "furry art archive."
Another thing, I see tons of images that are 99% the same stay, so I honestly don't know why that pool of yours was that different and got deleted, regardless of the volume.

HotUnderTheCollar said:
Eight hundred and nine though, that is more than I would upload in an entire year pretty much.

If it's true what SnoopyDerpy said, then I have also been mistaken about the purpose of e621.net. I thought it was written that it was a "furry art archive."
Another thing, I see tons of images that are 99% the same stay, so I honestly don't know why that pool of yours was that different and got deleted, regardless of the volume.

Yes my upload count is more than sufficient for me, even with the deletes. I only point out that the deletions hurt my upload count because that is really the consequence that other people can conceptualize. Losing all the work and effort I put in to uploading the images is more tiresome but likely less relevant to people reading this.

Its fine...I hope that "Excessive Image Edits" gets added to the "Avoid Posting This" though. And a clear definition of excessive is established (like more than 5). Had I known these things I would not have uploaded the image set, but for the sake of completionism and ONLY for that sake I uploaded all those images. I mean there were eight or nine images in the series that didn't exactly pique my interests but I figured might be relevant to someone else's tastes and that was really the only reason I uploaded them all. It just seemed appropriate.

Pasiphaë said:
Guess maybe that should be in the "Avoid Posting" or "Things not to post" on the help page. I certainly don't see anything like that listed there.

Honestly I just kind of give up. Really don't know why that image set provoked such vehemence and I thought I was doing right by pooling the images and parenting them, but it's just a big middle finger when they get deleted and my upload count takes the hit for it.

I could ask about that if you would like me to.

Ratte said:
I could ask about that if you would like me to.

I would appreciate it. Hopefully it will prevent someone else from making the same mistake.

Honestly if "Edit Spam" is a valid reason for deletion then it should probably be listed somewhere in the "Avoid Posting" list. I mean I know that the Webcomic thing is listed there, which is valid because you don't want to just cross archive a comic strip entirely simply to have it as another source. But these were just static images.

I can honestly say I agree it should be added to Avoid Posting. Even if it's only because it can be seen by some as being a bit impolite.

I mean, no reason to push many other people's images off the front page in one fell swoop, when you could just as well cherry-pick like four or five of the bazillion slight variations and leave a link to the rest of the bunch in their description fields, or a comment or something.

Also, the alternate_version_available tag (partially) exists for this reason.

Pasiphaë said:
Honestly I just kind of give up. Really don't know why that image set provoked such vehemence and I thought I was doing right by pooling the images and parenting them, but it's just a big middle finger when they get deleted and my upload count takes the hit for it.

You just need to take five. This moment will pass. Just enjoy your oddly comical pi of deleted posts.

Also, I guess there is such a thing as uploading too many variations of one image.

I always thought lowering someone's post count over the tamer take down infractions was a bit much, especially on the more "admin roulette" still decisions :P

I hope Pasiphaë reconsiders, she does great work it seems :o

GameManiac said:
You just need to take five. This moment will pass. Just enjoy your oddly comical pi of deleted posts.

Also, I guess there is such a thing as uploading too many variations of one image.

No I am pretty sure I am just done. This isn't bitterness or sour grapes. This is a great site with a great community, but honestly I can't keep up with the veiled ambiguity. These latest images are just the most recent deletions I have some exception to. Previously images I shared were deleted for Irrelevance which is a very difficult thing to gauge since relevance changes based on the moderator who sees the image. It becomes especially bad when one moderator approves the images and they are deleted by another. Honestly I just feel my efforts will be better served elsewhere at this point. Its not any one thing in particular, but the cumulative effect in total.

CamKitty said:
I always thought lowering someone's post count over the tamer take down infractions was a bit much, especially on the more "admin roulette" still decisions :P

I hope Pasiphaë reconsiders, she does great work it seems :o

The lowering of the post count again was only brought up as a way for someone to conceptualize the hit it takes. Really losing the effort and time I spent pooling and parenting and uploading the images is more disheartening than anything else.

Jugofthat said:
I can honestly say I agree it should be added to Avoid Posting. Even if it's only because it can be seen by some as being a bit impolite.

I mean, no reason to push many other people's images off the front page in one fell swoop, when you could just as well cherry-pick like four or five of the bazillion slight variations and leave a link to the rest of the bunch in their description fields, or a comment or something.

Also, the alternate_version_available tag (partially) exists for this reason.

I didn't post them to spam and I certainly don't think that I was pushing images off the main page. I posted during a very low activity time on the site, when it was more likely MY posts would be pushed off the front page. Additionally with the ability to change or set how many images are displayed per page that never really struck me as a huge concern.

Honestly the reason I uploaded them was because they were part of a set. There was enough variation in the subject matter per image that I felt NOT uploading the full set would be an injustice to the artist and to others who have different tastes. If I were to have just uploaded ones that were relevant to me it would have probably only been 4-5 images, but I figured having the whole collection was better than cherry picking what I liked.

As for the alternate version tag I really always thought it more relevant to images that had things that people found grossly objectionable like Gore, Blood, Scat, Farting, and the like. But I suppose it would have worked in this instance, but again I was posting for completions sake...not because I wanted to cherry pick the images that I liked and nothing else.

Pasiphaë said:
No I am pretty sure I am just done. This isn't bitterness or sour grapes. This is a great site with a great community, but honestly I can't keep up with the veiled ambiguity. These latest images are just the most recent deletions I have some exception to. Previously images I shared were deleted for Irrelevance which is a very difficult thing to gauge since relevance changes based on the moderator who sees the image. It becomes especially bad when one moderator approves the images and they are deleted by another. Honestly I just feel my efforts will be better served elsewhere at this point. Its not any one thing in particular, but the cumulative effect in total.

The guidelines used to delete most the images I have deleted from you in the past were all rather clear, especially the "no humans" rule is something you lost a lot of uploads to. If something was unclear then I have always had at least 4 different options to contact me on my profile, none of these are there for mere decoration, none of these were used by you.

As for the edits, it's nice of you that you wanted to be unbiased and upload all versions, but even most libraries don't keep 20 different versions of the same book when all that changes are part of the cover or synopsis. And pretty much all of those versions boil down to "foreign object in anus" with the same pose, same face, same everything. If the changes would have been larger than just a single different object I would have very likely approved all of them, but as it stands the changes weren't significant enough to excuse having the same image 20 times in the search.

If it's any consolation, I've made some good headway already to get the guidelines written down in an easy to reference wiki page. It's not available for the public yet but I do hope to have it ready sometime next week, and hopefully it's as encompassing as we can make it.

NotMeNotYou said:
The guidelines used to delete most the images I have deleted from you in the past were all rather clear, especially the "no humans" rule is something you lost a lot of uploads to.

This is something I would heavily dispute. More than a few of those were completely within the same context as many of the images I have uploaded. For instance:

#876734 Featuring Miqo'te, but deleted for irrelevance.

#875160 #875318 #875325 Featuring Oikawa Shizuku, uploaded here many times previously by myself especially...deleted for irrelevance.

#824338 Featuring Pikachu...but apparently not prominently enough to not be considered "irrelevant".

#775590 Last panel featuring distinct cow humanoid features. Deleted.

#745327 Featuring Riven, a character posted here repeatedly as an animal humanoid/rabbit humanoid. Deleted.

My real issue is the total ambiguity of what will make it by the "relevance" test and what won't. So it's just in my best interests to focus my efforts elsewhere so i don't just waste huge chunks of time.

I appreciate that you will be updating the Wiki, hopefully it will prevent such misunderstandings in the future, but there is also a fundamental lack of transparency in the normal image approval process too which I am just going to avoid by not posting here anymore.

Less than 3.5% of the posts you have uploaded to e621 have been deleted. Therefore less than 3.5% of your time has been wasted.

Btw, my deletion rate is about the same at 3.35%.

NotMeNotYou said:
but as it stands the changes weren't significant enough to excuse having the same image 20 times in the search.

why

Pasiphaë said:
This is something I would heavily dispute. More than a few of those were completely within the same context as many of the images I have uploaded. For instance:

post #876734 Featuring Miqo'te, but deleted for irrelevance.

Too much focus on humans. A solo Miqo'te might work, but with so many humans it becomes a human-centric image.

post #875160 post #875318 post #875325 Featuring Oikawa Shizuku, uploaded here many times previously by myself especially...deleted for irrelevance.

Frankly, I'm surprised any of these stuck around. She's not even a bovine humanoid, she's a human wearing a cow outfit.

post #824338 Featuring Pikachu...but apparently not prominently enough to not be considered "irrelevant".

Are you surprised? You have a human fucking a human up the butt, and a tiny little rodent waaaay off to the side of the image sucking a tit.

post #775590 Last panel featuring distinct cow humanoid features. Deleted.

Nope, that's a hairband with cow horns on it. You can tell by there being a red headband that wasn't there in the others. It's the same as with Oikawa, she also had a headband.

post #745327 Featuring Riven, a character posted here repeatedly as an animal humanoid/rabbit humanoid. Deleted.

Again, too many humans makes it human-centric.

My real issue is the total ambiguity of what will make it by the "relevance" test and what won't. So it's just in my best interests to focus my efforts elsewhere so i don't just waste huge chunks of time.

If it has 90% humans, without the nonhuman drawing the viewer's eyes to it, it's irrelevant, that's the safe way to look at it. In both of your legitimate humanoid images, I only saw the humanoids because I was looking for traits, they didn't stand out otherwise.

I appreciate that you will be updating the Wiki, hopefully it will prevent such misunderstandings in the future, but there is also a fundamental lack of transparency in the normal image approval process too which I am just going to avoid by not posting here anymore.

Hmm. We should probably make a mention of the fact that fake ears or horns do not count as humanoid, and that too many humans makes it irrelevant, then.

this thread is a microcosm of the toxicity that is e621

i do not blame pasiphaë at all for deciding to leave

here is a user taking it upon themselves to upload literally thousands of images (9000~ in a little over a year, that's something in the ballpark of 15+ images a day), and they are trying to point out a problem with the way images are approved/rejected

and what is done about it?

the community leaps down her throat, chases her away, and then congratulates itself on alienating an interested, engaged, and productive user actively contributing to the site

the first response is literally "i am ignoring your frustration" (paraphrasing)

i see this happen at least once a week on the forums so just imagine how often this occurs in the comments

inb4 accusations of whiteknighting

null0010 said:
strange words

Actually the conversation with anyone important has been quite civil, a few peanut gallery comments, but actual responses have been ok.

But you can interpret things how you want

you don't see a user leaving the site because their criticism of site policy was met with a collective shrug?

i guess you can interpret things how you want, too

null0010 said:
you don't see a user leaving the site because their criticism of site policy was met with a collective shrug?

i guess you can interpret things how you want, too

My interpretation is that the quitting was announced in the very first post before any shrug replies: "I am done uploading and sharing here".

null0010 said:
you don't see a user leaving the site because their criticism of site policy was met with a collective shrug?

i guess you can interpret things how you want, too

Lance_Armstrong said:
My interpretation is that the quitting was announced in the very first post before any shrug replies: "I am done uploading and sharing here".

Same. She's not leaving, just not uploading anymore.

I would actually not mind elaboration (and perhaps examples) to be shown on the avoid posting list if it would help come to a general understanding. I don't like to see people get frustrated and leave, especially people who have contributed to much during their time of activity.

I'll say too that it wouldn't completely stop the necessity of removing posts, but it should at least help people better understand the point of the site and the direction of the upload.

Unfortunately, yeah, the rule on humans is pretty vague, but that is something upon which we can better elaborate.

As I've said, I do hope you reconsider. Your contribution really has been appreciated.

In my opinion: I feel that this site is no longer an image archive, and is much more social and artistic now, then what it was back then (or so I noticed). Seeing more images deleted because of stricter Irrelevant, DNP, CDNP, etc., proves that this site is deviating from being an archive. Go trace our steps to two years ago, and further, and you'd see images that might have been deleted today...

I don't think we should call ourselves an archive, if we did. I don't think we're acting like one, especially if we compare E6 to a booru or a R34. Be it true or not, or better or worse, is up for interpretation.

Siral_Exan said:
In my opinion: I feel that this site is no longer an image archive, and is much more social and artistic now, then what it was back then (or so I noticed). Seeing more images deleted because of stricter Irrelevant, DNP, CDNP, etc., proves that this site is deviating from being an archive. Go trace our steps to two years ago, and further, and you'd see images that might have been deleted today...

I don't think we should call ourselves an archive, if we did. I don't think we're acting like one, especially if we compare E6 to a booru or a R34. Be it true or not, or better or worse, is up for interpretation.

Having a focus (furry over just art in general) doesn't really make something less of an archive. It just makes it, well, more focused. That isn't really a bad thing.

Once i attempted to see how far the line between went, it was a picture by shadman. (2 human females as the image center with 2 platypus having sex in the background.) (I wasn't surprised that it was deleted, but i did wonder how far one can blur the line to approve an image) (You can find it here )

People have bothered me in the comments for uploading 2 or 3 alternate versions. (Usually cum versions) I always thought that multiple versions wouldn't be a problem. (I mean it's not hogging the entirety of the site's capacity, the only downside is that multiple similar images appearing beside on the picture list and while searching a tag that belongs to all of the images.)

I actually never thought that there was a rule for excessive amounts of edits for the same picture.

Ratte said:
Having a focus (furry over just art in general) doesn't really make something less of an archive. It just makes it, well, more focused. That isn't really a bad thing.

If I made "archive" sound degrading, I mean to specify boorus and r34s: their use of bots is degrading. They make it look like all they want is images, Gelbooru being an example. We don't have bots. Ergo, I'll rephrase and say we're a better archive.

Siral_Exan said:
If I made "archive" sound degrading, I mean to specify boorus and r34s: their use of bots is degrading. They look like they want all the images, Gelbooru being an example.

That wasn't what I meant. e6 is still an archive site, we have just tried to refine the focus of the archive over the past few years to be more specific than it used to be. It's like comparing a general library to something like NCBI.

All I can say is that I will be sad to see you go. You always did a good job tagging things when you uploaded them, you uploaded a lot of stuff, and most importantly, you always seemed like a very nice person. I sent you a PM or two at various points and you responded very kindly, if I recall correctly.

If you are frustrated and have decided to give up uploading, I wish you the best, but I will miss you. Either way, I wish you the best.

There was similar issue with one of mittsies flash animation. One user was uploading single loops of all possible variants, meaning possibly hundreds of posts, but fortunately after 19 posts user stopped when there was negative respond and artist themselves said it's not good idea. post #817063

Biggest problem is that users were already complaining and even artist themselves got to comment that they weren't the one doing the uploads, trying to minimize damage that it would do to them. At that point I would feel bad for the artist who clearly didn't want those to be posted on mass, basically seeming like spam and minimal work, instead of saying that haters gonna hate. And there seems to be at least 29 of those according to source and continuing! post #881472

One way would be to use alternate_version_available tag and post few variants to make users aware that artist is doing this kind of thing. Other way would be to upload them in really small parts, so users would be less mad, but it would still make massive amount of small edits. Because I do feel rather bothered by this, only linking to external site to see stuff sometimes results in that stuff being almost impossible to get if it gets deleted and only having couple images of the set uploaded will kick someones OCD.

I also don't understand how you're not Privileged yet; you have way more uploads and tag edits than the vast majority, and some Privileged users have only half or less of what you have, while they were promoted for just those things.

Lance_Armstrong said:
Less than 3.5% of the posts you have uploaded to e621 have been deleted. Therefore less than 3.5% of your time has been wasted.

Btw, my deletion rate is about the same at 3.35%.

Reductive reasoning at its finest. Thanks for contributing.

On the topic of alternate_version_available as a tag:

I maybe only learned of it's existence a few months ago. I also basically assumed it was used mainly to avoid posting material that a contributor/poster might feel too objectionable to be accepted by the community at large (things like gore, scat, farting, vomit, diapers, etc.).

As previously stated I only shared ALL 29 of those images because I felt that it was an injustice to not share them all. Not only to the artist but to members of the community who may have had an interest in the subject matter. If I had only uploaded the images I personally felt piqued my interests I probably would only have uploaded maybe 5 or so pictures in the set.

HotUnderTheCollar said:
I also don't understand how you're not Privileged yet; you have way more uploads and tag edits than the vast majority, and some Privileged users have only half or less of what you have, while they were promoted for just those things.

It's okay. Actually my tag edits may be a bit skewed because I tend to make a lot of typos when I upload (I usually upload late at night and by then my typing skills are not the greatest) and have to go back and correct them. I feel that the user ranking system is just fine...in fact making the Wiki posts was just as enjoyable for me as posting itself in the end.

• Excessive webcomic rips (more than 5 or more consecutive webcomic pages)

Of note is this rule on the avoid posting wiki page. We've kind of taken a turn where admins decided to ban all webcomics, but the excessive trait is still in effect, just with other forms of content: Does this mean that if you space apart say thee to five edits a day, would it be fine then?

Lance_Armstrong said:
My interpretation is that the quitting was announced in the very first post before any shrug replies: "I am done uploading and sharing here".

To be fair...this isn't my first issue with the image approval system. I had previously posted in regards to images and at those times was met with a similar blasé attitude that was essentially: "Sorry, its just how things are."

I mean I can totally understand that having a single moderator in charge of all approvals would be simply nightmarish for that person. But the skew between what one moderator approved and another deletes is beyond me. The fact that an image will be approved by a moderator and then deleted by another also strikes me as odd. Like basically moderators telling each other they are "doing it wrong".

My original post is mainly just a declaration of intent. I am not trying to be snarky or doing this because I want decisions reversed...one way or the other it doesn't matter to me at this point. I feel that if some more attention can be brought to this issue the site can become even greater. In the meantime I will just focus my contributions on other sites where the community may not be as great but the ambiguity of the approval system is less vague.

EDIT: Also sorry for the forum spamming in replies. I just have a lot of trouble parsing out Quoting and typing replies in bulk in a single post.

Pasiphaë said:
I mean I can totally understand that having a single moderator in charge of all approvals would be simply nightmarish for that person. But the skew between what one moderator approved and another deletes is beyond me. The fact that an image will be approved by a moderator and then deleted by another also strikes me as odd. Like basically moderators telling each other they are "doing it wrong".

this is considered a "feature," not a bug

Pasiphaë said:
I mean I can totally understand that having a single moderator in charge of all approvals would be simply nightmarish for that person. But the skew between what one moderator approved and another deletes is beyond me. The fact that an image will be approved by a moderator and then deleted by another also strikes me as odd. Like basically moderators telling each other they are "doing it wrong".

To be fair, I have outranked all other administrators, with the exception of Dave, for the past 2 years now. We just never really made it public outside of the CoC (and me being listed there as part of senior administration). I have overruled a lot of images getting approved but most where either new admins or janitors, or someone who wasn't around when we adjusted our guidelines of what is okay and what isn't.

I'm pretty much the nanny for everything around acceptable submissions, not only takedowns and the likes, thus I clean up errors of others.

NotMeNotYou said:
To be fair, I have outranked all other administrators, with the exception of Dave, for the past 2 years now. We just never really made it public outside of the CoC (and me being listed there as part of senior administration). I have overruled a lot of images getting approved but most where either new admins or janitors, or someone who wasn't around when we adjusted our guidelines of what is okay and what isn't.

I'm pretty much the nanny for everything around acceptable submissions, not only takedowns and the likes, thus I clean up errors of others.

Certainly there will be a "ranking" system within administration, but we as users don't know that. Additionally moderators only get that ranking because their judgement has shown they know how to work within the site's guidelines. So can't you see how one moderator approving an image and another deleting it might be just a bit strange from the perspective of a contributor? I mean can you really not see how it might come up as an issue to posters when a moderator approves your post and then another deletes it? That doesn't strike you as just a bit duplicitous?

Surely it has to be acknowledged that the system has flaws. Yet when I bring it up the answer I am faced with is almost always the same closing of ranks where you are really just left with the impression that the answer is: "Deal with it".

I'm not trying to cause Drama, but if this ambiguity with the image approval system was addressed this site could be even better in my opinion.

Pasiphaë said:
Surely it has to be acknowledged that the system has flaws. Yet when I bring it up the answer I am faced with is almost always the same closing of ranks where you are really just left with the impression that the answer is: "Deal with it".

I'm not trying to cause Drama, but if this ambiguity with the image approval system was addressed this site could be even better in my opinion.

I think the issue in the end is that art, by its very nature, is subjective. I think e6 does a great job of trying to define things where it can, but at a certain point it takes a judgement call or you end up (a) letting through a lot of stuff that isn't wanted or (b) cutting out stuff that is wanted.

Problem with rules is that they tend to deal in absolutes and very little in life (and especially art) is absolute.